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Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

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Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

Postby quantumparanormal » 15 Sep 2009, 23:54

It's an older article, but a good read nonetheless.

Richard Wiseman wrote:"I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven, but begs the question: do we need higher standards of evidence when we study the paranormal? I think we do.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-510762/Could-proof-theory-ALL-psychic.html#ixzz0RBt2KwPH

In other words, he believes that as the standards become stricter, something that we should require of paranormal research, the evidence for remote viewing will probably diminish towards chance levels. However, this is promissory materialism. We need more well-controlled, highly blinded experiments to test his hypothesis. However, the overall database of evidence strongly suggests this phenomenon has strong support, so much so that if we were to employ stricter controls and high blinding, the odds against chance would most likely still be high, albeit lower, but I admit that's yet to be tested. Either way, we should test it and see. We shouldn't have a bias either way, either for or against this phenomenon. Unfortunately, not many scientists are conducting psi related research these days, so we might not have an answer any time soon.

Nevertheless, Richard Wiseman "agrees" remote viewing is proven, and I'm assuming he's basing that on the current, large body of empirical evidence.

Dean Radin posted a blog about this: http://deanradin.blogspot.com/2009/09/skeptic-agrees-that-remote-viewing-is.html
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Re: Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

Postby ciscop » 16 Sep 2009, 09:06

yes he ¨agrees¨
well said

before the quote, you conveniently left out:
Professor Richard Wiseman, a psychologist at the University of Hertfordshire, refuses to believe in remote viewing.

and then after the quote:
"If I said that there is a red car outside my house, you would probably believe me.
"But if I said that a UFO had just landed, you'd probably want a lot more evidence.
"Because remote viewing is such an outlandish claim that will revolutionise the world, we need overwhelming evidence before we draw any conclusions. Right now we don't have that evidence."

man.. even the pseudo skeptic of radin added those comments you conveniently left out

but yeah.. he ¨agrees¨
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

Postby quantumparanormal » 16 Sep 2009, 10:02

ciscop wrote:yes he ¨agrees¨
well said

before the quote, you conveniently left out:
Professor Richard Wiseman, a psychologist at the University of Hertfordshire, refuses to believe in remote viewing.

and then after the quote:
"If I said that there is a red car outside my house, you would probably believe me.
"But if I said that a UFO had just landed, you'd probably want a lot more evidence.
"Because remote viewing is such an outlandish claim that will revolutionise the world, we need overwhelming evidence before we draw any conclusions. Right now we don't have that evidence."

man.. even the pseudo skeptic of radin added those comments you conveniently left out

but yeah.. he ¨agrees¨


And despite all of the other things he said, he still said it's been "proven" via current, mainstream, typical science (i.e., he wishes for more stringent controls, a different science, promissory materialism). He could have not said that at all, but he indeed did. As a believer or skeptic, when you're faced with overwhelming, compelling empirical evidence that contradicts your preconceptions, your worldview, your convictions, it's no wonder why you'd respond in such a way that Wiseman did (such a reaction is typically termed retro-cognitive dissonance), especially if you're a representative of an organization such as CSICOP, in which die-hard materialism is dogma. What would you have expected him to say, all positive things about remote viewing? I sure wouldn't. That wouldn't make any sense at all. A reasonable person would expect Wiseman to make psi-negative, contradictory statements, which is what he did. It's a given. Did you really think Wiseman would say something like the following? "I now believe in the paranormal! Remote viewing is real! I can no longer be part of CSICOP! I renounce my pseudo-skepticism!" Or, shall how I put it...duh, of course not. You can't expect the guy to quit cold turkey. So, all of those other contradictory statements he made don't dismiss the fact that he "believes" remote viewing has been "proven."

As Radin stated in response to a comment,
Radin wrote:> Richard Wiseman is one skeptic. You're saying that since one skeptic said ESP is a subject worthy of scientific study that it is, therefore, science...

This seems to imply that if a prominent, media-savvy skeptical spokesperson offers a concession that runs counter to what other skeptics take as dogma, then he (most of them are "he") suddenly loses his status as a skeptic. Hmm.


In other words, don't worry skeptics--Wiseman is still a good-old skeptic who "doesn't believe in remote viewing!" ;)
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Re: Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

Postby ciscop » 16 Sep 2009, 12:45

quantumparanormal wrote:
ciscop wrote:yes he ¨agrees¨
well said

before the quote, you conveniently left out:
Professor Richard Wiseman, a psychologist at the University of Hertfordshire, refuses to believe in remote viewing.

and then after the quote:
"If I said that there is a red car outside my house, you would probably believe me.
"But if I said that a UFO had just landed, you'd probably want a lot more evidence.
"Because remote viewing is such an outlandish claim that will revolutionise the world, we need overwhelming evidence before we draw any conclusions. Right now we don't have that evidence."

man.. even the pseudo skeptic of radin added those comments you conveniently left out

but yeah.. he ¨agrees¨


And despite all of the other things he said, he still said it's been "proven" via current, mainstream, typical science (i.e., he wishes for more stringent controls, a different science, promissory materialism). He could have not said that at all, but he indeed did. As a believer or skeptic, when you're faced with overwhelming, compelling empirical evidence that contradicts your preconceptions, your worldview, your convictions, it's no wonder why you'd respond in such a way that Wiseman did (such a reaction is typically termed retro-cognitive dissonance), especially if you're a representative of an organization such as CSICOP, in which die-hard materialism is dogma. What would you have expected him to say, all positive things about remote viewing? I sure wouldn't. That wouldn't make any sense at all. A reasonable person would expect Wiseman to make psi-negative, contradictory statements, which is what he did. It's a given. Did you really think Wiseman would say something like the following? "I now believe in the paranormal! Remote viewing is real! I can no longer be part of CSICOP! I renounce my pseudo-skepticism!" Or, shall how I put it...duh, of course not. You can't expect the guy to quit cold turkey. So, all of those other contradictory statements he made don't dismiss the fact that he "believes" remote viewing has been "proven."

As Radin stated in response to a comment,
Radin wrote:> Richard Wiseman is one skeptic. You're saying that since one skeptic said ESP is a subject worthy of scientific study that it is, therefore, science...

This seems to imply that if a prominent, media-savvy skeptical spokesperson offers a concession that runs counter to what other skeptics take as dogma, then he (most of them are "he") suddenly loses his status as a skeptic. Hmm.


In other words, don't worry skeptics--Wiseman is still a good-old skeptic who "doesn't believe in remote viewing!" ;)


yep
i guess now you wanna go on a semantics discussion like you always do
i just wanted to pointed to the fact that you conveniently left out information that painted the actual picture

what do you think about my signature mike?
:D
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

Postby quantumparanormal » 16 Sep 2009, 21:40

ciscop wrote:i guess now you wanna go on a semantics discussion like you always do


And yet again, you can't dispute what I said is correct. It just makes sense. All you can do is say I'm "going on semantics." If you want to call common sense "semantics," be my guest. Do you even know what "semantics" means?

ciscop wrote:i just wanted to pointed to the fact that you conveniently left out information that painted the actual picture


If I wanted to leave out the rest of what Wiseman said, why did I provide a link to the full story, for all to read in its entirety? I could have not provided any links to my sources of information, but I did. Go figure. Logic seems to escape you, as usual. Do yourself a favor so you can avoid further embarrassment, read critically and carefully, and use logic as often as possible.

Let me spell it out for you one more time. Hopefully, you'll read it critically and objectively this time:

Richard Wiseman wrote:"I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven, but begs the question: do we need higher standards of evidence when we study the paranormal? I think we do.


In other words, we "need" a "new" science when dealing with and testing phenomena such as remote viewing, not the ones we use for everything else (i.e.,medicine, biology, psychology, etc.), which is biased, but that's essentially what he said; and that if we were to employ this "new" science, remote viewing would most likely be disconfirmed/disproven, but until this "new" science is employed, remote viewing has been proven by the "current" science. Get it? :roll: **crosses fingers common sense kicks in**
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Re: Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

Postby ciscop » 17 Sep 2009, 00:55

quantumparanormal wrote:
ciscop wrote:i guess now you wanna go on a semantics discussion like you always do


And yet again, you can't dispute what I said is correct. It just makes sense. All you can do is say I'm "going on semantics." If you want to call common sense "semantics," be my guest. Do you even know what "semantics" means?

ciscop wrote:i just wanted to pointed to the fact that you conveniently left out information that painted the actual picture


If I wanted to leave out the rest of what Wiseman said, why did I provide a link to the full story, for all to read in its entirety? I could have not provided any links to my sources of information, but I did. Go figure. Logic seems to escape you, as usual. Do yourself a favor so you can avoid further embarrassment, read critically and carefully, and use logic as often as possible.

Let me spell it out for you one more time. Hopefully, you'll read it critically and objectively this time:

Richard Wiseman wrote:"I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven, but begs the question: do we need higher standards of evidence when we study the paranormal? I think we do.


In other words, we "need" a "new" science when dealing with and testing phenomena such as remote viewing, not the ones we use for everything else (i.e.,medicine, biology, psychology, etc.), which is biased, but that's essentially what he said; and that if we were to employ this "new" science, remote viewing would most likely be disconfirmed/disproven, but until this "new" science is employed, remote viewing has been proven by the "current" science. Get it? :roll: **crosses fingers common sense kicks in**


logic seems to escape me?
you are the one believing in intentionally enhaced chocolate!!!!
classic!!
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

Postby quantumparanormal » 17 Sep 2009, 00:58

Just as I thought... as dumb as a door nail. :roll:
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Re: Richard Wiseman agrees that "remote viewing is proven?"

Postby ciscop » 17 Sep 2009, 01:16

quantumparanormal wrote:Just as I thought... as dumb as a door nail. :roll:


hahahaha looks who´s talking
a radin believer, cant get dumber than that

a door knob confuses you

you are such an hypocrite
can radin be all wrong?
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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