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Psychics and Frauds

Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.

Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Craig Browning » 11 Oct 2011, 22:59

NinjaPuppy wrote:Yes, I come from a long line of left handed, green eyed, red hair, gypsies. I'm sure we all would have been left out for the wolves. :lol:


Hey, my mother even has a huge mole on her nose and was named after the goddess Astarte by her immigrant Irish father that corresponded with Crowley. . . tell me I'm not damned :twisted:
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 12 Oct 2011, 11:48

One of the differences I am seeing between psychic believers and skeptics is that psychic believers think that if they just throw out information and get a hit from time to time, that suffices to validate their abilities.


Wow, an overly broad and completely insulting remark. What a surprise.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby ProfWag » 12 Oct 2011, 18:51

craig weiler wrote:
One of the differences I am seeing between psychic believers and skeptics is that psychic believers think that if they just throw out information and get a hit from time to time, that suffices to validate their abilities.


Wow, an overly broad and completely insulting remark. What a surprise.

I apologize if that was an insulting comment CW, but what's invalid about my entire comment which is quoted below?:
"One of the differences I am seeing between psychic believers and skeptics is that psychic believers think that if they just throw out information and get a hit from time to time, that suffices to validate their abilities. Not speaking for all skeptics, but personally, I would think that if a psychic knew where someone was, they would go to that location and pick them up (with police escorts, of course.) If that were to happen, there wouldn't be much that us "loudmouth" skeptics could say about that, would there? Additionally, if they were really "valid," they would do it over and over. And that has never happened as far as I know and researched. Perhaps my expectations are a bit much, but it would leave little room for doubt in my eyes."

There are cases out there where a psychic makes a "hit" during an investigation, but as I mentioned, I'm not aware of any psychic that can verify they have done it over and over again. We've discussed it thoroughly on this board over the years and no one has come up with a case where it was solved based solely on the information a psychic provided and much more often than not, psychics end up sending police on wild goose chases costing valuable resources and emotional distress.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 12 Oct 2011, 22:16

ProfWag,
You make no attempt to understand how psychic ability works and doesn't work. You always come from the viewpoint that everything you see proves it doesn't exist. It is not like shooting a basketball; it is a lot more like a batter getting into a zone and batting .450 over the course of three weeks. Why doesn't he do it all the time? Why doesn't he just figure out what he's doing right so that he can always bat .450?

Here is a psychic who successfully works with police on missing person cases.
http://noreenrenier.com/
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Oct 2011, 22:49

Craig Browning wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:Yes, I come from a long line of left handed, green eyed, red hair, gypsies. I'm sure we all would have been left out for the wolves. :lol:


Hey, my mother even has a huge mole on her nose and was named after the goddess Astarte by her immigrant Irish father that corresponded with Crowley. . . tell me I'm not damned :twisted:

Uh oh, we're both screwed! :lol:
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Arouet » 12 Oct 2011, 22:53

craig weiler wrote:ProfWag,
You make no attempt to understand how psychic ability works and doesn't work. You always come from the viewpoint that everything you see proves it doesn't exist. It is not like shooting a basketball; it is a lot more like a batter getting into a zone and batting .450 over the course of three weeks. Why doesn't he do it all the time? Why doesn't he just figure out what he's doing right so that he can always bat .450?

Here is a psychic who successfully works with police on missing person cases.
http://noreenrenier.com/


Renier has been the subject of much controversy. i'd be careful hanging my hat on her.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 12 Oct 2011, 23:14

Every psychic is controversial. So what? Just because skeptics raise "concerns" doesn't mean they're right.

How many times do I have to tell you to be skeptical of the skeptics? One hundred times? One thousand? When are you going to understand this concept?
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Arouet » 13 Oct 2011, 00:07

Of course I'm skeptical of the skeptics. I don't take something as gospel just because it came from a skeptic. But you seemed to have presented her website without qualification that there are a lot of people who have accused her of not being credible, including the US federal court if I'm not mistaken. If you want to do a case study on her I'm sure we could do some digging and get into it. You have presented her and her website and said: here's an example!

If you want to do a case study of her, then I'm happy to dig in a little bit. If you do, then start a thread, and let's look into her claims in depth!
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 13 Oct 2011, 02:50

Nope. Too muddled. Not worth sorting out. And prominent psychics are ALWAYS accused of not being credible so that in itself doesn't mean anything.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Arouet » 13 Oct 2011, 03:06

craig weiler wrote:Nope. Too muddled. Not worth sorting out. And prominent psychics are ALWAYS accused of not being credible so that in itself doesn't mean anything.


Ok, then my advice stands: be careful of using her as an example. As you say: it's muddled.

You let me know when you actually want to get into a topic in detail...
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 13 Oct 2011, 04:50

I've gotten into detail with you. It comes down to you never being convinced, so what's the point?
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby ProfWag » 13 Oct 2011, 05:03

craig weiler wrote:ProfWag,
You make no attempt to understand how psychic ability works and doesn't work. You always come from the viewpoint that everything you see proves it doesn't exist. It is not like shooting a basketball; it is a lot more like a batter getting into a zone and batting .450 over the course of three weeks. Why doesn't he do it all the time? Why doesn't he just figure out what he's doing right so that he can always bat .450?

Here is a psychic who successfully works with police on missing person cases.
http://noreenrenier.com/

I make little to no attempt to understand how TVs work either. I just know they do as it's tangible. I can see a TV. What I can't see is a successful psychic who has solved a crime.

I love this sentence you present: "Here is a psychic who successfully works with police on missing person cases." What evidence do you have that she does? Her word? Did you actually do some follow up to see if she was telling the truth or do you believe her just because she advertises as a psychic? Just curious...
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby ProfWag » 13 Oct 2011, 05:15

craig weiler wrote:ProfWag,
You make no attempt to understand how psychic ability works and doesn't work. You always come from the viewpoint that everything you see proves it doesn't exist. It is not like shooting a basketball; it is a lot more like a batter getting into a zone and batting .450 over the course of three weeks. Why doesn't he do it all the time? Why doesn't he just figure out what he's doing right so that he can always bat .450?

Here is a psychic who successfully works with police on missing person cases.
http://noreenrenier.com/

One more thing. My point is a psychic has never solved a crime. You bring up the extremely controversial Noreen. Here is what she says on her website: "Let me state early, I do not solve crimes..... the police do. "
By her own admission she doesn't solve crimes, she merely provides information to the police (at $1,000 a pop for an hour reading I might add--billed to your police department...)
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Arouet » 13 Oct 2011, 05:32

craig weiler wrote:I've gotten into detail with you. It comes down to you never being convinced, so what's the point?


Your history here has been to start conversing, and as soon as the other peoson (in this case me) doesn't just accept what you say without question, you shut down the conversation accusing me of being closed-minded.

As for the point: this is a discussion forum! That's what we do on discussion forums. We discuss things! Interesting things! Such as the topics being discussed here.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 13 Oct 2011, 09:44

We got into detail on the Ganzfeld. A lot of detail. More than enough. I pressed you on the details of why exactly you thought there was researcher bias and you never gave me a straight answer even though this is the heart of your argument. You cannot say exactly what you think is wrong with the ganzfeld, you can only quote a study about medical studies which I can clearly see doesn't apply.

I have presented obvious evidence of skeptical bias in critiquing psi and it was ignored. I have never seen you concede anything.

What it comes down to is that I don't find you reasonable enough to engage in a detailed discussion.

And Yes, ProfWag, we all know what you think of psychics. I'm not impressed.
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