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Psychics and Frauds

Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.

Psychics and Frauds

Postby ProfWag » 06 Oct 2011, 00:23

Here's something I just thought of while sitting on the throne this morning...

If a psychic uses observational information about a customer such as style of clothes, wedding ring (or lack of), brand of watch, breast implants, kind of vehicle, dirt on their shoes, roughness of hands, unintentional but overhead conversation, etc. and then uses that information in such a manner that it could be perceived by the customer that information was obtained paranormally, would that be considered fraud? Or, in other words, if a psychic uses cold reading in any form, would that be fraudulent?
Would you need examples of what I'm asking?
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Arouet » 06 Oct 2011, 00:52

I think it would only be fraud it they claimed to be using special psychic powers but knew that they were actually cold reading. Some people who cliam to be psychic may not realise that they are simply very good cold readings.

i think Craig B would say that they are naturally good cold readers because they are tapping into some sort of psi, but I don't think we need to go there.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Craig Browning » 06 Oct 2011, 01:36

ProfWag wrote:Here's something I just thought of while sitting on the throne this morning...

If a psychic uses observational information about a customer such as style of clothes, wedding ring (or lack of), brand of watch, breast implants, kind of vehicle, dirt on their shoes, roughness of hands, unintentional but overhead conversation, etc. and then uses that information in such a manner that it could be perceived by the customer that information was obtained paranormally, would that be considered fraud? Or, in other words, if a psychic uses cold reading in any form, would that be fraudulent?
Would you need examples of what I'm asking?


Amongst others Edgar Cayce points out that being psychic starts with an expansion of natural consciousness -- an awareness of your surroundings at the finest, most minute level of detail alongside the ability to recollect that information. Mnemonicist Harry Loraine echoes a similar point in THE MEMORY BOOK when pointing out how those with heightened recall are often accused of being "Psychic". We find similar examples in the law enforcement, investment and other arenas in which awareness or "sensitivity" to both, the thing of focus and one's surrounding hosts a magical/mystical feel to it. As I've shared before, this IS what it means to be a "Psychic" in the most common sense of perspective; what would be better defined as a "Diviner" or "Reader" but only to a point. There is a threshold or condition that exists in which all these skill factors is or becomes "natural" -- intuitive -- while everyone is born with a degree of this innate factor, not everyone has a natural penchant in connecting to it let alone understanding it.

Skeptics love to question/doubt "Intuition" because it's non-tangible and can't be touched, smelled, or sustain through countless redundancies of trail and effort. Yet, many in the skeptic's community are more amicable towards it because it isn't a full of boogiemen and whispering dead people as other modes of Psychic things tend to get. Thing is, I know of few that don't get "gut feelings" or "a hunch" about people, places & things throughout life and even they have to admit that there are some "maybe" scenarios to think on.

Knowing how the "trick' works does not mean it's "fake" or even "fraud", only that you know the mechanics behind the effect and why it creates the affect it has on people. I can show you two dozen ways of floating someone in the air but that will not prevent you from being mesmerized by the illusion when staged and presented properly (and besides that, there's more than 100 other methods out there you won't know about :twisted: ). Context is another factor that cynics detest, forgetting the fact that the Magick of our ancestors IS the science of our present; on that point alone understanding the observational elements in context, sustains the claim of one being "Psychic" or "Sensitive" at least on the mundane level.

When it comes to other psychic abilities like Clairvoyance, Mediumship, etc. the jury is still out for me. I've had experiences in several such areas that I've openly shared about here and elsewhere, based on those experiences I honestly can't imagine why anyone would want to commune with the dead on a regularly basis -- it's just creepy and when you are able to help others. The Clairvoyant/Astral Projection side of things I've had a life-time's worth of experiences in and yet, I can't define it. On one level I have to look at it from a psychological dream analysis perspective seeing more akin to "Mental Projection" and in part, how my own subconscious helps make me consciously aware of things (because of all the subliminal data collected in the course of a day or week). But then we have situations such as on-going dreams and shamanic visions that go on for months with growing intensity that are in common with other members of the Psychic/Spiritual Community, each having the same feelings of impending doom or whatever. Such things can't be ignored but because they are so fantastic skeptics will demean both, the claim of the vision (precognition) and all the evidence sat around in that it does not fit their black & white idea of life.

Anyone with the guts to actually do as I've encouraged several times now, to set their preconceived "pragmatism" on a shelf for the next year and work with the book "Wisdom of the Mystic Masters" for one year, exactly as it is outlined. Digest that text and the results you get from an honest "personal" perspective, and then tell me there's nothing to it with a straight face. Tell me that you did not have experiences, insights and even "blessings" that went outside the carnal realm of understanding and explanation.

Catch is, you can't dissect things using all your habit-based explanations, you MUST go with it free of censorship. At the end of your year's study and practice, review your notes and your life; take an inventory now, before you begin, in regards to the positive & negatives in your life and your general world view. A year later do the same thing BEFORE you begin looking at the notes and diary entries in an attempt to decipher it all, putting it into the "logic" perspectives you cling to so much in the present.

I've extended this challenge for at least six weeks or more and I've yet to hear of anyone of our primary skeptics even discuss a willingness to move down such a cause way. But as the old Indian saying goes, until you walk a mile in the moccasins of another, you cannot know their truth. ;)
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby ProfWag » 06 Oct 2011, 02:35

Craig Browning wrote:I've extended this challenge for at least six weeks or more and I've yet to hear of anyone of our primary skeptics even discuss a willingness to move down such a cause way. But as the old Indian saying goes, until you walk a mile in the moccasins of another, you cannot know their truth. ;)

Sure thing Craig. I have no problem dropping everying I'm doing and devoting the next year of my life to your challenge. Reading the book is on my radar though, for curiosity more than anything. But my wife is already making me change and alter my life based on her new yoga practice. Just how much of a change to an eastern philosophical way of life can a middle-aged man who is pretty set in his ways really make?
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 06 Oct 2011, 09:14

Just how much of a change to an eastern philosophical way of life can a middle-aged man who is pretty set in his ways really make?


As much as you want. It's a lot like life that way.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby NinjaPuppy » 06 Oct 2011, 20:01

craig weiler wrote:
Just how much of a change to an eastern philosophical way of life can a middle-aged man who is pretty set in his ways really make?


As much as you want. It's a lot like life that way.

I agree.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby ProfWag » 06 Oct 2011, 20:51

But what if the eastern teachings don't sit well with my current lifestyle or beliefs? I mean, I'm quite happy with my life, why should I change my lifestyle when I don't believe my current one is broken? :?:
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 06 Oct 2011, 22:06

ProfWag,
Wives have this interesting habit of knowing when it is time for us to grow and change, whether we like it or not.
A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are for.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby NinjaPuppy » 07 Oct 2011, 02:00

ProfWag wrote:But what if the eastern teachings don't sit well with my current lifestyle or beliefs? I mean, I'm quite happy with my life, why should I change my lifestyle when I don't believe my current one is broken? :?:

Try this:
Get married
If the thought of eating only enough to survive or having your genes mucked with doesn't sound very appealing, scientists say there is another and perhaps more pleasurable way to live longer: fall in love.

A study earlier this year led by Linda Waite, a sociologist at the University of Chicago, showed that happily married couples tend to live longer than unwed individuals. Married men were found to live, on average, 10 years longer than non-married men, and married women lived about four years longer than non-married woman.

The researchers speculated that married men live longer because they adopt healthier lifestyles and take fewer risks. Married woman, on the other hand, probably live longer because of the improved financial well-being that comes with marriage.


Taken from: http://www.livescience.com/10468-extend ... mises.html
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby ProfWag » 07 Oct 2011, 02:42

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:But what if the eastern teachings don't sit well with my current lifestyle or beliefs? I mean, I'm quite happy with my life, why should I change my lifestyle when I don't believe my current one is broken? :?:

Try this:
Get married
If the thought of eating only enough to survive or having your genes mucked with doesn't sound very appealing, scientists say there is another and perhaps more pleasurable way to live longer: fall in love.

A study earlier this year led by Linda Waite, a sociologist at the University of Chicago, showed that happily married couples tend to live longer than unwed individuals. Married men were found to live, on average, 10 years longer than non-married men, and married women lived about four years longer than non-married woman.

The researchers speculated that married men live longer because they adopt healthier lifestyles and take fewer risks. Married woman, on the other hand, probably live longer because of the improved financial well-being that comes with marriage.


Taken from: http://www.livescience.com/10468-extend ... mises.html

See, I'm already married so I don't see a reason to adapt to that easter philosophical shi...stuff.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Craig Browning » 07 Oct 2011, 05:09

ProfWag wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:I've extended this challenge for at least six weeks or more and I've yet to hear of anyone of our primary skeptics even discuss a willingness to move down such a cause way. But as the old Indian saying goes, until you walk a mile in the moccasins of another, you cannot know their truth. ;)

Sure thing Craig. I have no problem dropping everying I'm doing and devoting the next year of my life to your challenge. Reading the book is on my radar though, for curiosity more than anything. But my wife is already making me change and alter my life based on her new yoga practice. Just how much of a change to an eastern philosophical way of life can a middle-aged man who is pretty set in his ways really make?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh today. . . it's been one of "those" days; lots of doctors, nurses and not such great news :|
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Craig Browning » 07 Oct 2011, 05:16

ProfWag wrote:But what if the eastern teachings don't sit well with my current lifestyle or beliefs? I mean, I'm quite happy with my life, why should I change my lifestyle when I don't believe my current one is broken? :?:


Let me tell you a secret. . .

Buddhism and Confucianism both carry a great deal of perspective you already have about life, it's not that big a jump. As the Dahlia Lama pointed on in a 60-Minutes interview, Buddhist don't worship a "god" in the way westerners understand such things, so yes, they are atheists, just atheists with a spiritual perspective on things. :)

I believe it was the teachings of Confucius that gave China the longest era of peace and tranquility it had ever known. Oddly, it was very close to a Communal-istic tradition which has been taught and replicated the world over, even biblically -- can you say Kibbutz?

I just turned 52 and feel as if I'm cursed to live out my days a fat, broken old curmudgeon or, I might just shave all the hair, paint myself gold and become a living Buddha, haven't decided. . . one thing is fact however, I can't take any of it seriously. The human animal is to damned funny and there's simply too many wonders to behold, enjoy and allow into one's reality. ;)

SCREW THE BASTARDS!
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby craig weiler » 07 Oct 2011, 07:24

How wild. I turn 52 in December.
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby ProfWag » 07 Oct 2011, 20:46

craig weiler wrote:How wild. I turn 52 in December.

Man, all of you posters are old... :P
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Re: Psychics and Frauds

Postby Craig Browning » 07 Oct 2011, 23:22

ProfWag wrote:
craig weiler wrote:How wild. I turn 52 in December.

Man, all of you posters are old... :P


Yea, but you will be too some day in the not so distant future :lol:
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