Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.
I realize this subject has been discussed to death, but I wanted to re-emphasize my point that until a psychic has been shown to actually solve a case, no police at any level should use a psychic to help their investigation. Here's today's case in point: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110608/ts ... mechildren
Texas police probe psychic's mass grave hoax
HARDIN, Texas (AFP) – Texas police were investigating whether a tip-off from a psychic about a mass grave containing dozens of dismembered bodies was in fact a hoax after an intense search found no bodies.
State, local and federal agents combed the area around a rural home after a woman who claimed to be psychic called police twice to report the mass grave at in Hardin, Texas about 50 miles (31 kilometers) northeast of Houston.
She provided a very good description of both the outside and interior of the one-storey brown brick home and blood was found on the porch, which prompted police to get a search warrant and call in reinforcements.
Soon, local media were reporting that as many as 25 to 30 bodies -- including children -- were found on the rural property. But those reports turned out to be false.
"We searched the premises there is no indication there are any bodies at this residence, property or shed," Rex Evans, a captain with the Liberty County sheriff department, told reporters.
"There is no indication that a homicide occurred here."
Craig McNair, head of the county commissioners, expressed frustration with the "havoc" created by the false tip which led dozens of journalists to descend upon the quiet Texas town.
"Whoever this person was who gave this tip we'll be in touch with her and we could hold her responsible for giving a false tip and creating this havoc," he said.
The people who live there are long-haul truck drivers who are currently on the road and are baffled by the report, Evans said.
"Finding out that the police are in my yard for dead bodies? That's kinda panicking me," Joe Bankson, 44, told the Houston Chronicle.
"I haven't killed anybody," he said. "And I have a lot of friends, but I haven't helped anybody bury any bodies."
Bankson told the KHOU-TV that his daughter's ex-boyfriend got drunk and cut his wrists a couple weeks ago and is now in a psychiatric hospital.
"It took me all day to clean the inside of the house. I'm not sure I got it (the blood) all."
Yea, it was on the National News I believe. . . I find it funny, the fact that they never publish the cases in which Psychic gave solid leads and in a number of instances, lead authorities straight to the body and even the living person.
Because of stigma. Just like Pilots & Aircraft Controllers that censor themselves on UFO sightings so Law Enforcement and the Military obfuscate their use of paranormal resources, even to the point of burying cases.
Yes, this is a very old, very dead horse.
NO, I am not going to play fetch or argue the point in that those that don't want to give any kind of credit to such things, never will agree that it's not only been done but is done with great consistency. The catch is however, the psychics involved typically try to avoid any kind of media attention -- they are not in it for "personal gain or glory" but because they wish to help as they can and where they can. I've repeated this fact upon several occasions here; the "real" psychics (for lack of a better term) electing to stay out of the limelight and even outside the more "metropolitan" environs, residing in simple modest homes that are frequently decorated in an eclectic array of chachkeys.
Totally disagree Craig. It's never happened. Ever. And if it did, we would have heard about it even if the psychic wished to remain anonymous. Even in the current high profile case of Casey Anthony, there was a psychic (Ginette Lucas, I believe) who supposedly told a PI where to look, but that's even come into serious question as additional information has come out. We've gone through this before and no one has produced any concrete evidence this has ever happened. And the FBI backs my opinion up as well.
As I have said before, I have first hand knowledge of a case where a psychic DID in fact give exact information that led the police to a body. What I do not have is any written proof or evidence. Just because it was never documented on paper, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I'll take you word for it Ninja, but how do you know this psychic didn't have inside knowledge that was actually nothing paranormal? And when you say "led the police to a body," do you mean the psychic told the police to look "around water" or did the psychic say she's in the basement of a house at 123 Main Street? There is much information to be found about psychics saying a body would be found here or there, but not a documented case where the crime would not have been solved at that time without the use of a psychic.
Wrong Craig. The media would be all over it just like they were with the false case that started this thread. However you did get one thing right.
Now this is beating an ol' dead horse.
The psychic got in a patrol car with two detectives and gave them directions to a physical location, where they parked. They then followed the psychic around on foot around a massive industrial property as he was looking for the exact location that he had "seen" in his vision. He found the location and the detectives searched the area to find a girls body (in water) stuck under a dock.
Prior to the above event, the psychic was asked by the detectives to somehow prove that he could back up his claims of psychic ability. The test took place in the general location (town) of another murder that this psychic said had a connection. To prove his claims, he gave the detectives the name of a local eatery/bar in that town and gave them a full description of what it looked like and everyone who would be in the bar (physical descriptions and some first names). So maybe that test isn't exactly proof positive from my example but it was absolutely exact. Enough to convince two police detectives to entertain this persons claims.
And yes, the psychic became their #1 suspect at least in the area of a connection to perhaps the actual players but was completely cleared down the line. Even after the actual murderer was arrested and convicted, they found no connection to anyone connected with this case. Also, the body had drifted from where it had been dumped, so even the murderer had no clue where it wound up nor was it visible at the time it was found.
Without a citation this just makes for a nice beginning to an urban legend.
Several of you are trying to "rationalize" things based on theory. The media can't be all over something they can't prove (unless you're with the Ntl. Enquirer or Star) they can't "prove" things because of how "the system" deliberately conceals specifics. On the other hand we have televised accounts of dozens of cases in which psychics were vital to solving the crime, even if it were something as simple as giving investigators a new set of eyes on the issue.
You talk about "insider knowledge" but how is this possible when the psychic in question lives hundreds or thousands of miles away and has absolutely no direct sense of connection to anyone involved. . . not even the famed 6 degrees of association a.k.a. Kevin Bacon scenario.
I've simply seen too many situations and even participated in one major and a couple of minor situations in which crime or "loss" was an issue, through which psychic or intuitive phenomena was the key. In my personal experiences the biggie was locating a stolen car and ultimately leading authorities in Nevada, Arizona and California to a car theft operation based near Palm Dale, CA. Yet, you won't find me or any other psychic mentioned in the reports for several reasons, the primary reason is that it all started with one man that came to see me at the store in Reno and it was his insistence and personal follow-up to my leads that lead to the bust. Nonetheless, he credits me for telling him where to look and what to look out for.
In the more "minor" scenarios, I've helped locate lost pets and in one instance, an elderly man with dementia that had wondered off. . . of course, I could list trivial situations like finding car keys, lost packs of cigarettes and beating a GPS team on a treasure hunt, but I'll not go there (especially that GPS thing, in that I probably cheated when I did that one).
The big problem that really exists is the refusal of the more cynical mind, to give credit where it is due and instead, attempt to explain away things in ways that are all too frequently 'weak"... for example, insisting on solid, unshakable testimony by ALL parties (from law enforcement) that are involved and on top of that, being able to prove each individual is unshakable and stands-up to their idea of being creditable. . . if history is an indicator I believe we've seen how quickly once respected scientists & researchers are suddenly made to look like radical idiots of questionable ethics the instant they suggest that PSI is possible, so what are the chances for a typical human being to withstand such antics of character assassination?
Like the various flavors of religion, the "skeptics" (actually, the cynics with an agenda) will support ANYONE regardless their lack or morals & ethics, so long as they a "yes men" to the cause and ardent atheists that are willing to spread the gospel of disbelief. On this the naysayers share common ground with every form of religious zealot, including acts of violence (though not nearly as inhumane as certain cults have managed to get over the millennia). If people don't yield to your personal point of view, they are chastised and made fun of and all too frequently demeaned or discredited; something many in this mind-set take pride in for some odd reason. But similar, actions that are akin to any other animal backed into a corner and feeling threatened -- you lash out in the hope of taking a few out with you. Or worse, you'll model yourselves after the military manners of a certain Mr. Custer whose idea of fighting Indians was to wait until the braves left camp on a hunting party, then swooping in to murder all the women & children. . . a little trick he learned from studying the Crusader era and war tactics I'm willing to bet.
I AM A SKEPTIC far more than not. Yet I KNOW beyond a shadow of doubt, that there are things about the "paranormal" that have legitimacy and just because we've invented explanations or discovered the subtle nature as to how these things happen DOES NOT MEAN it's all trickery, fake, deliberate deception or criminal behavior. It only means that we've figured part of it, out -- not all of it! Not everything in the Universe fits in the niche of a laboratory and as anyone that works with statistics will tell you, anything can be proven as correct now days, based on who is financially supporting the research as well as the political atmosphere of the day. So maybe it would be more wise to hesitate and consider the alternative and look a bit beyond reason, especially the more extreme areas of "critical' some wish to imply. . .
EXAMPLE: Most everything causes cancer based on your consumption/exposure to it. The constant flow of announcements about this and that causing cancer ALL seem to be based on outrageous, statistically irresponsible research -- test results based on a consumption level that is frequently more than ten times typical consumption/exposure, if not more. So, given such known and proven lack of fairness and logic, how can anything withstand such testing? How can anything not be proven to cause cancer? Or, as the case were, how is there any chance in hell of realistically proving something the "establishment" doesn't want proved? Like Global Warming? The Big Brother Scenarios? UFOs? or any other thing that might challenge things as they stand and are encouraged as being acceptable?
The whole peer review rhetoric we hear in retort is not a fail-safe means of check & balances now days, hasn't been in a very long time. It is a highly political-economically dependent aspect within society that is obliged to keep certain ideologies "controlled" and only through very small baby spoon fulls, feed the greater auspices of society "new ways" of looking at and understanding situations. This includes scenarios like the invention of the AMA and even FDA who, truth be known, have brought about a greater sense of harm and information loss that fulfilling their role and supposed obligation to the masses.
Step Back and look at the bigger picture, gents. Open your eyes a bit and see just how unfair and unbalanced all of it actually is and more importantly, look at the core of it all so you can understand where such "corruption" comes from and why it sustains the FACT that science is no long neutral nor as "fact based" as you may wish to believe.
I would sure like to see more facts on this scenario.
I must contend, however, this if one earns a living as a psychic, their business would only be enhanced with being able to have a verifiable solved case. Saying that true psychics don't seek the limelight does not fit with my education in Marketing 101. Sorry. I will continue to disagree with you on this subject without outside evidence rather than the lone opinion of a magician.
How can I explain this?
The majority of people that do honest work as a Psychic/Medium are not carnally inclined; they are not interested in seeing "gain" through their abilities even though they do accept payment as well as barter or gratuity type exchange. These people are highly spiritual and for that reason they simply don't function in the world in the same way most of us are inclined. This can be a very difficult concept for logic-minded people to wrap their heads around because it does not fit into their reality/logic, and yet there's not a major culture or religious element that doesn't have rather lengthy histories & multiple examples of this very practice, be it shaman or some kind of priest or monk.
Many "sensitives" actually reach a level of being overwhelmed from time to time and MUST step away and frequently go into retreat -- a restpit that will typically involve their getting far away from large populations and even setting camp somewhere deep in the wilderness so they can clear their minds, purge themselves and get grounded. One purpose behind such sabbaticals is to regain focus/purpose and overcome carnal temptation -- that would be when one allows themselves to embrace the commercial and carnal possibilities around things.
Were you aware that the greater Psychic Community views people like VanPraagh, Edward and Brown as "Frauds"? Not for the same reasons you would but because they "sold-out" and started chasing fortune & fame vs. the path of "humility" (as in the positive sense of being humble) and living as a servant of spirit and guide to our fellow beings. Such betrayal is strongly looked down on by those that have a stronger sense of spiritual commitment and focus, and as I've pointed out, it is not something most would be willing to endure in life, nor is it a way of living that most of us can relate to.
No, they do not live by a vow of poverty but rather, a commitment to serve rather than seeking personal gains & glory. Making a living of sorts is not the same thing and you will find that most who fit this particular niche are very low-key when it comes to the vocational side of things, a strong majority of them actually being reluctant to use their abilities as a means of income, doing so only as the result of necessity or circumstance. I for instance, came to the decision to do this work as the result of health issues and the fact that I have no other area skill-wise, by which to amply supplement my income; because of the horrid economy people aren't buying shows and are hesitant to buy a ticket for something that's as high-priced as my programs have to be (due to food & beverage issues) and yet, they are far more willing to pay $50.00 for a Reading. Granted, most do this because they are feeling desperate and uncertain about life and want answers -- hope; their church has failed them as has other such resources but they want some kind of amicable solution.
To coin a phrase, "Ours is a program of attraction, not promotion. . ." and to that point we too choose to distance ourselves from the media. My particular case being a bit unique due to my show-biz background, but with few exceptions I only garner media attention when it comes to deliberate PR stunts and trickery -- show promotions. Even the one or two "psychic" situations I do share, are not used at an extreme but solely as a kind of "mention" tied to my background, such as how I bring up the WTC/9-11 prophecy; an instance in which several sensitives across the country were picking-up on the same general energy, which is why I talk about it; it's not "Mine" exclusively, but a demonstration of "Universal Consciousness" for lack of a better term.
The "Commercial" image or "celebrity" tied to certain psychics is, as I've stated, frowned upon. On the other hand, authorship and doing lectures or workshops isn't just common but part of the calling -- the means by which clarity around what we do and how to cultivate one's awareness and other psi skills, is an extension to our role as teachers & healers -- healers in the sense of spiritual and sometimes emotional levels and in the form of being educators; guides that help people become aware and able to recognize the subliminal.
I really don't know how to better explain these points other than stating that history is rife with examples in which those of a set spiritual conviction, willingly distance themselves in a manner of being "IN the World but not OF the World".
You've explained your opinion quite thoroughly. I just examine the facts presented to me and through my own research and have come to the opinion that I disagree with you and belileve quite strongly that you are wrong. No offense to you or your opinion, but there are just too many crimes that go unsolved that if there was someone who could do as you claim with any degree of certainty above chance, these crimes would be solved by now. I''m continuously hopeful though that someday, a psychic will break through so we can find out what really happened in some of these very important cases. I have little doubt that there are some psychics that don't seek the limelight and honestly just want to help, but unfortunately, there just aren't any that I have found that do more good than they do harm. Based on what you're saying, there isn't one psychic who would like to have their successes publicized, but I really believe that there would be at least one psychic in the world who would not mind having their name associated with a successful case and since we don't have that, I have concluded that your statement is incorrect.
Ahhhh! The crux of the issue!
Crimes, Illness, Catastrophe, etc. are not the provenance of a Psychic per ce. You are looking at Karmic scenarios and only in instances in which some kind of special aid is needed, would any sensitive gain impulse or a connection to such things. I know you've heard of the whole "having to tune in" on the "vibes" and how it's like a radio transmission, it's one of the most common explanations associated with clairvoyance & telepathic type skills. The other element that needs to be added to such scenarios is circumstance itself; I have had situation in which I simply notice something "unique" about a person I see on the streets, the bus or whatever and because of what I see and feel I'm compelled to say something to them that pertains to their immediate future. Hollywood was made this type of thing a common thread in countless films & Tv shows; a psychometric touch of a person in a crowd followed by the psychic getting a flood of images (a Psychic Flash); it's a very real thing and some of the one's I've experienced are down-right gut wrenching. Nonetheless, it still remain a karmic factor; somehow the energy has been shifted and one or the other participants in say, a crime, no longer require that particular experience and so, they are given an option. . . a way by which to avoid it that does not take away from their Free Will.
People get ill and know cataclysm in their lives because of Karmic demands. They likewise know innate skills, understanding and perspective -- "gifts" -- because of karma; it is not a negative or positive, it simply is. It's purpose is to bring about balance and maintain balance in the Universe on all plains. The Rapist from ages long ago will ultimately return as the victim of rape just as an accomplished student of Music will return in life with a penchant towards music and the arts, oft time demonstrate an innate understanding of such things. But Karma likewise affects entire regions, nations, races. . . everything that encompasses the human experience. A look at most family groups will reveal certain common traits that can be tract through multiple generations; all of it a matter of karma tied to that family and frequently, a gender element in a family line; the males in my family being known for horrid fits of depression-anxiety and paranoia. The irony being that I'm the only male member of the two generations tied to my own and my father, that's ever sought professional help. The others tend to lean on a church that simply adds to their lack of self-esteem by telling them they're bad, wrong, etc. (but have hope, Jeez-us will save ya! It will all be better after you die)
Unfortunately "Life" tends to get in the way of things when it comes to how things "ought to be" in our opinion. Especially when it comes to applying "logic" to it all -- there's simply too many things that logic, rationalism and science can't fully explain away either.
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