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The Cornell University Psychic Study

Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.

The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby ProfWag » 16 Nov 2010, 05:34

This study suggests that psi, or some form of it, may (and I repeat...may...) actually exist.

http://www.cornellsun.com/section/news/ ... tudy-finds
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby Arouet » 16 Nov 2010, 05:43

Here's a good discussion on it over at JREF: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=188366.

Replications are under way. There is much discussion about this. You can see a critique study linked in that thread (though not yet peer reviewed). Some preliminary replication has failed to replicate.

But this is certainly an interesting study and worth following up on.
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby derrida » 16 Nov 2010, 06:02

at least he is right about the replication being the acid test
i hope he gets lucky!
that would be awesome if he can get the replication to the test.
maybe with even more people
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby Craig Browning » 17 Nov 2010, 04:49

derrida wrote:at least he is right about the replication being the acid test
i hope he gets lucky!
that would be awesome if he can get the replication to the test.
maybe with even more people



Replication is only an "Acid Test" for those that refuse to accept the fact that most of what we call psi, is not controllable, predictable or even repeatable. If it were such, then it wouldn't be looked upon as being something "magical" and/or miraculous.

Psi has NEVER had claims attached to it in which rigid fact was imposed; this is true throughout history and it is the "weak link" most skeptics deliberately manipulate when screaming proof that it does not exist... and do understand, even as a semi-believer I approach 99% of those I meet who call themselves "Psychics" with a great deal of skepticism, even explaining to them (sometimes in not so indirect a manner) that they are simply deluded and confusing the fact that they've learned to Read the cards with being "Psychic"... the two do not support one another; anyone can learn to read the cards, stones, bones, etc. it is an analytical function that likewise hosts a series of formulas that assist in the act of divination. But even the old mystic masters stressed to their students that learning to work with oracles was merely the first baby step towards becoming a "Mystic" and that the cards or whatever, were just a focusing tool that assisted them in getting in touch with their "inner-self" (intuition, in my view) which is where the psychic clarity comes into play... but even this is rudimentary.

There was once a neophyte that had been "set-aside" via the rites of purification and then sent out into the wilderness to fast, meditate and connect with the divine on the higher levels of mind & spirit. During his sojourn the plebe was challenged by his darker side... use your power to transform this or that into bread so you can eat... trust in your abilities that you can fall from this high place and fly, knowing no injury, etc. and with each of these "temptations" the student would response; do no tempt the lord... that is to say, do not mock or challenge that you do not understand or for which your understanding is jaded.

This particular tale involves the typical Jewish neophyte as they complete the first stages of priesthood (according to ancient tradition)... in latter life this same process may be repeated in accordance to the ways of the true Cabala (not to be confused with today's commercial variation). But even here we find a wisdom that mirrors the adage of not tempting fate... to not question or challenge "god". I'll not go into the parable here, leave it to say that many a New Age pseudo-mystics more than sustain the fact that those who are not yet ready to "know" (experience) the divine on the higher planes, go through life seen as fools and even "dangers".

But this is where the irony comes into play; where science and spirit (soul) meld together. For it is in having lived a full and "complete" life in which faith as well as doubt were vital parts, that the true student of mysticism becomes readied to see and know the greater realities that are "God"... and what they find is almost humerus; God is Light, Sound, Math, Physics, the Psychological and Analytical. I don't say this in jest but as fact; this is the greater wisdom and truth that the mystics knew but deliberately kept out of the reach of the "younger" because they had not yet learned the power of modesty, the lessons of poverty, the greatness of one's spirit when faced with adversity... they had not yet learned to live LIFE so, in the mind of our ancient parents, how could we possibly be prepared to understand the divine and all of mysticism in such an analytical manner?

No, Psi, as we've come to define and know it, cannot be replicated under laboratory settings and under the rigid guidelines some wish to impose on it. On the other hand, those that have invested themselves in true mysticism and stepped deeper and deeper into the spiral of initiation, learn how to understand it all based on the mathematics of music, physics, and linguistics. They discover that we are in fact GOD but more importantly, they learn just what it means (what the obligations are) for being that. It is a mantel few can handle, which is where the other facets of the parable come into play... how the less experience is found in the wilderness a "madman" or that another returns to the city "touched" and no longer balanced... a fraction of the man he once was... many being called but few ever meeting up to the task... especially when the student is not yet ready to let go of the etheric sense of God in exchange for his role as God Incarnate -- a mystic/shaman and spiritual leader of the people.

Yes, it seems strange and even complicated, but the old ones sought to reserve "the knowledge" not for the sake of personal power over others, but for the sake of preserving humanity, guarding it against its own arrogance and aggression.

Look around... see for yourself just how quickly "knowledge" has been bastardized and as an end result, society thrown into chaos...

This IS the sort of PSI experiment that can and has repeated itself many times and until we all wake up and learn to respect the knowledge along side one another, there will never be an agreement or harmony between faith and the analytical. ;)
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby derrida » 17 Nov 2010, 05:12

then there´s no such thing as PSI

you just wanna call it that when you are lucky
and you dont wanna call it that when you fail

psi doesnt exist
is nothing but a made-out word for the wishful thinkers
who wanna think they are x-men when they are nothing but humans
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby ProfWag » 17 Nov 2010, 05:30

Craig Browning wrote:Replication is only an "Acid Test" for those that refuse to accept the fact that most of what we call psi, is not controllable, predictable or even repeatable. If it were such, then it wouldn't be looked upon as being something "magical" and/or miraculous.

I'm a management professor, not a scientist. So, can someone tell me if there has ever been a generally accepted scientific principle that was accepted without a replication? I'm inclined to say no but would like to know if there has been.
Hopefully, I asked that right...
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby derrida » 17 Nov 2010, 05:40

ProfWag wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:Replication is only an "Acid Test" for those that refuse to accept the fact that most of what we call psi, is not controllable, predictable or even repeatable. If it were such, then it wouldn't be looked upon as being something "magical" and/or miraculous.

I'm a management professor, not a scientist. So, can someone tell me if there has ever been a generally accepted scientific principle that was accepted without a replication? I'm inclined to say no but would like to know if there has been.
Hopefully, I asked that right...


im not sure.. but wasnt hawkins black hole theory accepted without replication?
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby ProfWag » 17 Nov 2010, 06:05

Here is part of an interesting article from: http://www.trimberger.org/programs/obse ... redict.htm

"OK, so you've observed something. How do you know it is right? How do you know you observed it correctly? Or wrote it down correctly? Or there wasn't something else happening that you didn't notice (like someone bumped the table or something) that messed up your observation? Why, you just do it again. This is the second important part of science: replication. Do it again. If we observe something, and we describe what we did and other people can repeat our experiment and observe the same result, then we can conclude we've correctly observed what is true.

This is a big deal and it is the reason why scientists don't care much about reports of ESP (Extra-Sensory Perception), mind reading and stuff like that. Not because they don't like the people doing it, not because the people doing it aren’t smart, not because they don’t use big words, but because other people are unable to repeat the experiment and get the same result. It's that simple. In science, if you can't replicate it, then you don't understand it. It isn't science. Accidents and coincidences happen all the time. Nobel Prize-winner Richard Feynman said science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves."
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby Arouet » 17 Nov 2010, 06:13

Craig Browning wrote:
Replication is only an "Acid Test" for those that refuse to accept the fact that most of what we call psi, is not controllable, predictable or even repeatable. If it were such, then it wouldn't be looked upon as being something "magical" and/or miraculous.


But that is not how parapsychology operates. Parapsychology aims to be a science. It demands replication. What you are saying is that psi is not deducible through science, which may be true, but is not the approach that parapsychologists take.

The problem with something that is not controllable, predictable or repeatable is that it is very difficult to ascertain that it actually exists. But what you are really saying is that we should ignore the study entirely, as we should ignore anything by Radin, Sheldrake, Beishel, etc.

Psi has NEVER had claims attached to it in which rigid fact was imposed; this is true throughout history and it is the "weak link" most skeptics deliberately manipulate when screaming proof that it does not exist... and do understand, even as a semi-believer I approach 99% of those I meet who call themselves "Psychics" with a great deal of skepticism, even explaining to them (sometimes in not so indirect a manner) that they are simply deluded and confusing the fact that they've learned to Read the cards with being "Psychic"... the two do not support one another; anyone can learn to read the cards, stones, bones, etc. it is an analytical function that likewise hosts a series of formulas that assist in the act of divination. But even the old mystic masters stressed to their students that learning to work with oracles was merely the first baby step towards becoming a "Mystic" and that the cards or whatever, were just a focusing tool that assisted them in getting in touch with their "inner-self" (intuition, in my view) which is where the psychic clarity comes into play... but even this is rudimentary.


It's not manipulative, its how science works. As you have noted, many people are deluded, or just wrong about what's goes on. Science is a way to cut through that. Again, your argument here is with parapsycology in general, not with skeptics or other scientists trying to analyse Bem's study or repliate it.

snip mystical stuff


The mystical stuff which is brought about through fasting, meditation, and often drugs, is relatively predictable. Maybe not the exact experience, but the type of experience sure is. The human brain is capable of some pretty incredible sensations/experiences.

and what they find is almost humerus; God is Light, Sound, Math, Physics, the Psychological and Analytical.


With all due respect (and I mean that, its hard to say this without coming across as at least a little offensive), Craig, this is meaningless. Describing everything as God add understanding to our knowledge of the universe. That sense of oneness that one can feel when meditating has been studied. I don't have a link handy, but it involves actually shutting down a part of the brain, I believe, that results in such feelings. Again, this has been scientifically demonstrated.

I don't say this in jest but as fact;


No, you say it as opinion. You cannot confirm this as fact. Especially if it doesn't mean anything (again- no offence!)

No, Psi, as we've come to define and know it, cannot be replicated under laboratory settings and under the rigid guidelines some wish to impose on it. On the other hand, those that have invested themselves in true mysticism and stepped deeper and deeper into the spiral of initiation, learn how to understand it all based on the mathematics of music, physics, and linguistics. They discover that we are in fact GOD but more importantly, they learn just what it means (what the obligations are) for being that. It is a mantel few can handle, which is where the other facets of the parable come into play... how the less experience is found in the wilderness a "madman" or that another returns to the city "touched" and no longer balanced... a fraction of the man he once was... many being called but few ever meeting up to the task... especially when the student is not yet ready to let go of the etheric sense of God in exchange for his role as God Incarnate -- a mystic/shaman and spiritual leader of the people.


This is nice and poetic, but again, with all due respect, is not substantive. You have not demonstrated that psi, if it exists, cannot be scientifically analysed. Many parapsychologist disagree with you, and its not enough just to declare it. If something exists, and is real, it should be testable. That's not to say that certain conditions might need to be put into place in order to ensure best chances of success. As its been said, you don't test growing seeds by planting them in the sand. But that's not the same thing as saying its not testable. If something is not testable one must be extremely cautious about concluding that it exists.

Yes, it seems strange and even complicated, but the old ones sought to reserve "the knowledge" not for the sake of personal power over others, but for the sake of preserving humanity, guarding it against its own arrogance and aggression.


Philosophy, ethics, morals, etc. have nothing to do with what we're discussing here.
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Re: The Cornell University Psychic Study

Postby ProfWag » 27 Feb 2011, 21:45

kthvinko wrote:Telepathic person with no life


My name is: [deleted by Moderator] this side can be destroyed but if you search under name [deleted by Moderator] telepathy " you are going to find a new side , Swedish citizen, Croatian before, born 27.04.1974.


So you were born in Croatia, huh? Nice country, but not as nice as your neighbor Slovenia. Croatia has something Slovenia doesn't though...a decent Hooter's...
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