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Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Jun 2010, 04:18

caniswalensis wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:Ooooooh, he shook the box! You make it sound like that box had a puppy in it. :lol:


It is a well known fact that Uri Gellar tortures puppies as a hobby.
Ok, do I need to say that I am joking? :lol:

For some 'yes', for some 'maybe, but personally for me 'no'.
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby caniswalensis » 17 Jun 2010, 04:53

NinjaPuppy wrote:
caniswalensis wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:Ooooooh, he shook the box! You make it sound like that box had a puppy in it. :lol:


It is a well known fact that Uri Gellar tortures puppies as a hobby.
Ok, do I need to say that I am joking? :lol:

For some 'yes', for some 'maybe, but personally for me 'no'.


Well, for the "others" I am joking. :D

Uri loves all living creatures, I am sure. :)
"It is proper for you to doubt ... do not go upon report ... do not go upon tradition ... do not go upon hear-say." ~ Buddha
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby really? » 17 Jun 2010, 04:57

ProfWag wrote:Look Indigo Child, proving the existance of ESP, TK, life-after-death, and a myriad of other paranormal claims could very well be the most important discovery in the history of mankind. By simply believing whatever somebody writes without seriously questioning its authenticity is totally irresponsible. If you want to call me a "pseudoskeptic" because I don't believe in the paranormal and that I ask for, and demand, unquestionable proof of its existance, then fine, call me whatever you wish. My stance will remain that by not demanding the tightest controls for extremely important experiments is uncalled for, wrong, illogical, and, as mentioned, irresponsible.
ProfWag



My sentiments too. This is probably the greatest reasons why the paranormal remains a murky quagmire of beliefs
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby ProfWag » 17 Jun 2010, 05:11

NinjaPuppy wrote:Wouldn't smart money be on the skeptic in the room crying foul if any of this happened or even suspected of happening? Was there someone there claiming to be "The Enforcer"?

The only non-parapsychologist in the experiments was the cameraman, Vaz Pissman or something like that.
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby Indigo Child » 17 Jun 2010, 05:19

You're clutching at straws on the die in the box experiment. Both the
die and the box were provided by SRI. The video shows us the box is
sealed, the die is placed inside and it is shaken. Several people are present
in the room and nobody can see the die. Geller gets the correct number 8/8 times.
This experiment is conclusive as you are going to get.

Well, seeing as you failed to give a rational counter- explanation for this test.
Let's move onto the magnometer test. How did Geller produce a magnetic
field comparable to that of the Earth. Does he produce special farts ;)

I also want you to explain how he could bend a ring that requires 150lb force
by his wee fingers by stroking it. Does he have superhuman strength in his fingers?
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby ProfWag » 17 Jun 2010, 05:37

Indigo Child wrote:You're clutching at straws on the die in the box experiment. Both the
die and the box were provided by SRI. The video shows us the box is
sealed, the die is placed inside and it is shaken. Several people are present
in the room and nobody can see the die. Geller gets the correct number 8/8 times.
This experiment is conclusive as you are going to get.

Well, seeing as you failed to give a rational counter- explanation for this test.
Let's move onto the magnometer test. How did Geller produce a magnetic
field comparable to that of the Earth. Does he produce special farts ;)

I also want you to explain how he could bend a ring that requires 150lb force
by his wee fingers by stroking it. Does he have superhuman strength in his fingers?

Have you seen all 24 hours of video footage Indigo? Oh, you haven't? Do you know why? Because Targ and Puthoff did not publish it. Why? I have my guesses.
I will not waste time giving explanations. All I can do is give explanations as to how it could be done. But, you know what? I was not there. I was nine. I did not witness what went on. For all I know, Geller has real psychic abilities. For all you know, Targ and Puthoff are cheats.
I said this a few posts ago, but it's really all that needs to be said as to the proof that Uri Geller is a genuine psychic:
"What we've demonstrated here are the experiments that we performed in the laboratory and should not be interpreted as of psychic functioning.” - Targ and Puthoff
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby really? » 17 Jun 2010, 05:37

Is there a video showing Geller bending this ring ? Or are you simply taking the word of someone remembering what took place a long time ago ?

Here's something you don't know. There's a saying it goes something like this. 'Test tubes don't lie'. What this means is scientists set up experiments without any expectations nature will pull a fast one. In short they are not trained to look for nor are expecting experiments to lie or be deceitful. This same naivete on the part of scientists means they don't know how to set up experiments to eliminate trickery. It also means they are just as easy to fool as anyone else.
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Jun 2010, 05:41

really? wrote:Is there a video showing Geller bending this ring ? Or are you simply taking the word of someone remembering what took place a long time ago ?

Here's something you don't know. There's a saying it goes something like this. 'Test tubes don't lie'. What this means is scientists set up experiments without any expectations nature will pull a fast one. In short they are not trained to look for nor are expecting experiments to lie or be deceitful. This same naivete on the part of scientists means they don't know how to set up experiments to eliminate trickery. It also means they are just as easy to fool as anyone else.

Obviously you have never gotten your hands on a 'dirty' test tube and had something go so very, very, wrong. :D
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby Indigo Child » 17 Jun 2010, 08:04

Have you seen all 24 hours of video footage Indigo? Oh, you haven't? Do you know why? Because Targ and Puthoff did not publish it. Why? I have my guesses.
I will not waste time giving explanations. All I can do is give explanations as to how it could be done. But, you know what? I was not there. I was nine. I did not witness what went on. For all I know, Geller has real psychic abilities. For all you know, Targ and Puthoff are cheats.
I said this a few posts ago, but it's really all that needs to be said as to the proof that Uri Geller is a genuine psychic:
"What we've demonstrated here are the experiments that we performed in the laboratory and should not be interpreted as of psychic functioning.” - Targ and Puthoff


Yep, Targ and Puthoff are part of some conspiracy to usher in the antichrist(Uri Geller) by a secret group of evil santaists. This statement,
is by the way, as unfalsifiable as your statement that Targ and Puthoff are cheats.

You first began by demanding a controlled experiment to eliminate trickery.
You were then presented a controlled experiment. You shifted the goal post,
and demanded more controls, such as having a certain kind of box. You were
then presented with evidence on how it would be impossible for anybody to see
the die in the box. You shift the goal post again, and are now demanding me to
explain how do I know that Targ and Puthoff are not cheating.

You're intellectually dishonest, a hypocrite and a liar. You have consistently failed to engage
with any of the evidence you are being presented in every thread. You're a pseudoskeptic, there
is no question about it, and I am not going to wase too much of my time on you.
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby Indigo Child » 17 Jun 2010, 08:13

really? wrote:Is there a video showing Geller bending this ring ? Or are you simply taking the word of someone remembering what took place a long time ago ?

Here's something you don't know. There's a saying it goes something like this. 'Test tubes don't lie'. What this means is scientists set up experiments without any expectations nature will pull a fast one. In short they are not trained to look for nor are expecting experiments to lie or be deceitful. This same naivete on the part of scientists means they don't know how to set up experiments to eliminate trickery. It also means they are just as easy to fool as anyone else.


In that case you should not believe in any scientific experiment, because there is the possibility some evil scientists are deceiving us.

What a paranoid world you live in.

Ninjapuppy, it seems our skeptics have turned into conspiracy theorists! isn't that woo?
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby really? » 17 Jun 2010, 08:51

really? wrote:Is there a video showing Geller bending this ring ? Or are you simply taking the word of someone remembering what took place a long time ago ?

Here's something you don't know. There's a saying it goes something like this. 'Test tubes don't lie'. What this means is scientists set up experiments without any expectations nature will pull a fast one. In short they are not trained to look for nor are expecting experiments to lie or be deceitful. This same naivete on the part of scientists means they don't know how to set up experiments to eliminate trickery. It also means they are just as easy to fool as anyone else.


Indigo Child wrote:In that case you should not believe in any scientific experiment, because there is the possibility some evil scientists are deceiving us.

What a paranoid world you live in.

Ninjapuppy, it seems our skeptics have turned into conspiracy theorists! isn't that woo?


Conspiracies I think not. To the contrary. I refer you to this viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1246 To the contrary this is why I trust science because it has good checks and balances which researchers of the paranormal lack
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby Indigo Child » 17 Jun 2010, 12:06

You accept the scientific method when you like the results, and reject it when you don't.
Too bad science does not care what you like and what you don't like :lol:
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Jun 2010, 19:52

Indigo Child wrote:Ninjapuppy, it seems our skeptics have turned into conspiracy theorists! isn't that woo?

Honey, it's all woo.

Let's get down to basics here. We have people who believe that Geller did what he did. We have people who don't believe that Geller did what is claimed. Neither side can prove what he did or didn't prove. We can all type until our fingers fall off and until our eyes fall out from watching videos and reading articles.

Skeptics saying that the controls were not ample does not change the fact that Geller got 8 out of 8 correctly as reported. Skeptics saying that videos were heavily edited has no bearing on the fact that what is shown was real or is not real. The only thing that can't be disputed is that it is a video or that someone wrote an article or a report. Anything after those two facts is up for discussion and debate. I'm sure that each side has plenty of input that may or may not be to the liking of the opposition. How well that input is presented makes or breaks how a topic will flow.
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby really? » 17 Jun 2010, 20:38

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Indigo Child wrote:Ninjapuppy, it seems our skeptics have turned into conspiracy theorists! isn't that woo?

Honey, it's all woo.

Let's get down to basics here. We have people who believe that Geller did what he did. We have people who don't believe that Geller did what is claimed. Neither side can prove what he did or didn't prove. We can all type until our fingers fall off and until our eyes fall out from watching videos and reading articles.

Skeptics saying that the controls were not ample does not change the fact that Geller got 8 out of 8 correctly as reported. Skeptics saying that videos were heavily edited has no bearing on the fact that what is shown was real or is not real. The only thing that can't be disputed is that it is a video or that someone wrote an article or a report. Anything after those two facts is up for discussion and debate. I'm sure that each side has plenty of input that may or may not be to the liking of the opposition. How well that input is presented makes or breaks how a topic will flow.


I'm not arguing about these experiments that took place nearly 40 years ago. I'm pointing out the past and subsequent demonstrations Geller has performed over these 4 decades. Whereby he does not show any improvement. Go back to the very earliest public performances you can find to see for yourself. * He does not bend as far as I know any objects other than keys and eating utensils. Were he makes a compass needle move in one direction never to my knowledge in a complete circle or at various speeds, start, stop or or change directions. The compass needle always moves as if deflected by a magnet. Notice in every performance he has to either touch the object in the case of metal or with a compass get very close. It's things like this that should raise a red flag and cause anyone to say somethings fishy.

You are right Geller shouldn't be a topic of debate for it should have been determined long ago by Geller himself whether he has paranormal abilities or if he's using tricks to make some believe he's got powers. Instead he perpetuates his own mythology.


* Have you notice when you compare bent metal objects all of the object are never bent beyond a certain degree ? I've never seen Geller bend a fork or spoon handle to were it curls up include keys. I've never seen him bend a dinner knife blade or handle. It's the little things that add up to cause serious doubt.
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Re: Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

Postby ProfWag » 17 Jun 2010, 20:57

really? wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:
Indigo Child wrote:Ninjapuppy, it seems our skeptics have turned into conspiracy theorists! isn't that woo?

Honey, it's all woo.

Let's get down to basics here. We have people who believe that Geller did what he did. We have people who don't believe that Geller did what is claimed. Neither side can prove what he did or didn't prove. We can all type until our fingers fall off and until our eyes fall out from watching videos and reading articles.

Skeptics saying that the controls were not ample does not change the fact that Geller got 8 out of 8 correctly as reported. Skeptics saying that videos were heavily edited has no bearing on the fact that what is shown was real or is not real. The only thing that can't be disputed is that it is a video or that someone wrote an article or a report. Anything after those two facts is up for discussion and debate. I'm sure that each side has plenty of input that may or may not be to the liking of the opposition. How well that input is presented makes or breaks how a topic will flow.


I'm not arguing about these experiments that took place nearly 40 years ago. I'm pointing out the past and subsequent demonstrations Geller has performed over these 4 decades. Whereby he does not show any improvement. Go back to the very earliest public performances you can find to see for yourself. * He does not bend as far as I know any objects other than keys and eating utensils. Were he makes a compass needle move in one direction never to my knowledge in a complete circle or at various speeds, start, stop or or change directions. The compass needle always moves as if deflected by a magnet. Notice in every performance he has to either touch the object in the case of metal or with a compass get very close. It's things like this that should raise a red flag and cause anyone to say somethings fishy.

You are right Geller shouldn't be a topic of debate for it should have been determined long ago by Geller himself whether he has paranormal abilities or if he's using tricks to make some believe he's got powers. Instead he perpetuates his own mythology.


* Have you notice when you compare bent metal objects all of the object are never bent beyond a certain degree ? I've never seen Geller bend a fork or spoon handle to were it curls up include keys. I've never seen him bend a dinner knife blade or handle. It's the little things that add up to cause serious doubt.

There is a video out there showing Rui using a "thumb magnet."
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVKNWgCGMd4&feature=related[/youtube]
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