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Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes arrest

Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.

Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes arrest

Postby Eteponge » 30 Mar 2010, 04:32

Nostradamus wrote:
But, in the cases I provided, Psychic Information DID play a significant role in either finding the body, or making an arrest.


The more I look at the Etta Smith case the more I am skeptical of any evidence for psychic information. The body was in view of the road. The road was the closest out of town road. It was not even 2 miles to the start of an unpopulated road. There are lots of discrepancies in the story. When I see so many discrepancies I begin to think that due to factors such as the intervening years memories get changed. People forget and fill in events. It's no surprise that the older account (14 years) given to CNN is different, and has more embellishments than the earlier versions (7 years after the fact).

If the body was in plain view of the road, I'd wonder why the formerly cynical Detective who was involved in the case and would clearly know that would have been astonished by Etta Smith's account. And why no one else reported that they had seen the body in the time between her disappearance and finding, if it was clearly out where everyone could see it. Wouldn't someone back then have pointed that out?

I'd love to email Etta or the Detective or someone else involved with the case to fact check all of this. It would clear up a lot. But, I don't have any contact information. So, we are at a stale mate.

Regardless, Etta Smith was merely ONE of the cases I presented, now deal with ...

* The Jackie Poole Case

* The John Catchings Case

* The Teresita Basa Case

All three of which I linked.
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes arrest

Postby Nostradamus » 30 Mar 2010, 20:45

In the CNN interview Etta says that on that first day she reported the "hunch" or whatever she felt that the police told her that they had not searched that area. Again, that was said 14 years after the fact.

I haven't had a chance to look over the other cases. I spent a bunch of time looking for info on this particular case. I never saw anything that preceded the 1987 reports. I wanted to see what was stated closer to the actual events. Seven years is a long time. It is possible that Etta was compelled by her incarceration to remodel her memories into a new form that reduced the psychic side of the story. It is possible, but I can't suggest one way or the other since I was unable to find fresher reports. Regardless I found it to be a very interesting story that you brought to my attention. Thanks.
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes arrest

Postby Craig Browning » 30 Mar 2010, 22:30

Psychic Sleuths by Joe Nickell


Oh yea... Joe is as pure as the driven snow with his unbiased and "fair" opinions on things... so much so that most of the other skeptics I know out there won't have anything to do with the jerk; he's a self-important ass that's angry at the world (I guess God didn't get him that pony he was praying for as a child).

When it comes to this sort of scenario Skeptics love to spin "interference" so to speak and of course, split hairs on multiple levels; the first line of attack being to discredit the "Psychic" as being a nut job and money grabber when statistically the majority of those who consider themselves "Psychic" don't charge for what they do, nor are they chasing fame & glory. They see what they do as being an obligation -- a "Calling" from God, as some would say. They even view those that run for the gold to be "frauds" ... not because of trickery or con-games but because they have betrayed their purpose in exchange for worldly riches. The other statistic skeptics love to side step is the fact that very few professional psychics/readers garner an income that exceeds $30,000.00 a year (unless they have the books out there, work the lecture circuit, do workshops, etc.). Some of the workaholic types that do the on-line or phone readings might see somewhere in the $50,000.00 -- $60,000.00 annual gross but only if they are on the service 14+ hours a day no fewer than 5 days a week... it's incredibly demanding and drains you something horrid.

When it comes to criminal investigations and psychic cooperation I'll be the first to point out that law enforcement teams seen an overwhelming number of crack-pot calls from every nut-job in the country when it comes to those cases that have seen a hint of press. In those cases 99.9% of the calls are never given a second thought, the rare exception being when the caller reveals two or more key facts NOT known to the media. This gets their attention and I can't stress just how rare this kind of thing is.

What's amazing about such "hits" is when they involve a Psychic who lives hundreds, even thousands of miles away from where the crime took place and yet, they are able to give police uncannily accurate details, once they are asked to focus on the incident and offer some feedback.

As I've noted before, law enforcement has to be very careful in how they work with Psychics; the information must always be "blind" which is to say, the Psychic is NEVER given any information on a case until they've more or less proven themselves. Even then, very little information is shared simply because investigators don't want to "taint" the situation... too, any honest Psychic absolutely does not want any details out of fear that it might influence them in ways that aren't conducive to their side of the investigation.

I've never found a body but I have used dowsing and psychometry a few times on behalf of clients, aiding law enforcement in situations involving a car theft ring in San Diego and finding a lost pooch in another case... these are not things I personally feel comfortable doing but will at least "try" when asked by clients that are in a bad place emotionally. My only goal is to assist the client in finding some peace of mind, not to go into the books as some kind of Psychic Sherlock...

So yes, there are ways psychics have and can aid law enforcement when it comes to various criminal situations. Likewise, there are far more idiots wasting the time of Law Enforcement groups, because they aren't being wise about their actions; not "digesting" their hunches or whatever and thus, researching what they feel/see prior to presenting their information. They are far more interested in the ego boost and by using a shotgun approach (putting tons of stuff out there)knowing that the odds will be to their favor in getting a strong enough "hit" to claim a case connection and "helping officials solve the crime"... sorry but that's just wrong on sooooo many levels :?

Even Edgar Cayce stepped back and looked at some of the details he'd pick up on, asking himself questions about the validity of the message. In his waking state (for many years in his early life) he did not believe in anything Psychic or esoteric, even seeing it as being quasi-evil due to his religious beliefs. This is what made him question things... sadly, he slowly got out of that habit because he became so "sold" on his accuracy that double-checking as no longer requisite in his mind... but that's when things got far more commercial as well. :roll:

Psychics are very much fallible -- we are human beings and as such, we run the risk of "thinking" and thus, adding in information based on assumption rather than what was actually presented to us. It's the downfall of most and one of the things that keep hits low and many a crime unsolved by their hand. The emotional factors, especially when dealing with a murder or similar ugliness, stimulates the conscious mind far too much to give an accurate "psychic" assessment on things which in turn leads authorities to be highly dubious when someone claims to have had some kind of psychic flash around a crime...

Anywho... this is how things are from the psychic angle and something "believers" as well as the skeptic, need to digest... the believer more so than the skeptic in that we tend to apply personal "need" when it comes to verification and validation of things psychic... they MUST approach every case, such as those posted here, with serious skepticism if they are to discover the truth of things. I'm not saying that these articles suggest fraud or any kind of deception, only that caution is advised prior to buying into such claims. ;)
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes arrest

Postby Eteponge » 31 Mar 2010, 00:51

Craig Browning wrote:When it comes to this sort of scenario Skeptics love to spin "interference" so to speak and of course, split hairs on multiple levels; the first line of attack being to discredit the "Psychic" as being a nut job and money grabber when statistically the majority of those who consider themselves "Psychic" don't charge for what they do, nor are they chasing fame & glory.

You know, the irony of Media Skeptics claiming the money grabber and fame seeking accusation against Psychics and others, is that some of these Debunkers apparently make a hell of a lot of money on their Books, Lectures, Media Appearances, Magazines, Etc, and get a lot of Fame and recognition from it. Maybe a Freudian slip?
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes arrest

Postby ProfWag » 31 Mar 2010, 04:02

Craig Browning wrote:
When it comes to criminal investigations and psychic cooperation I'll be the first to point out that law enforcement teams seen an overwhelming number of crack-pot calls from every nut-job in the country when it comes to those cases that have seen a hint of press. In those cases 99.9% of the calls are never given a second thought, the rare exception being when the caller reveals two or more key facts NOT known to the media. This gets their attention and I can't stress just how rare this kind of thing is.

Busier than all get out today at work so I'm not able to debate most of what you said (though hopefully I'll get a chance soon). However, this comment by you that 99.9% of the calls are never given a second thought is incorrect and since it's so very important, it deserves immediate comment.
According to this article on the Caylee Anthony case: http://www.wesh.com/news/17850702/detail.html ,
“ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Orange County Sheriff's Office has been sifting through hundreds and hundreds of psychic tips that have poured into the office since Caylee Anthony was reported missing. Orange Co. deputies have received close to 5,000 tips in the case since it first broke in July. Deputies are taking these tips seriously -- most have already been prioritized and investigated.”
From the research I have done on this and other cases, the police most certainly DO have to investigate tips from psychics. It wastes an unfathomable amount of money and time. Sorry, but if my wife goes missing, I don't want one piece of advice from a psychic. So, if you could spread the word should that happen, I'd appreciate it.
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes arrest

Postby Craig Browning » 31 Mar 2010, 20:59

I'm in a rush this morning as well so this will be a brief clarification...

The 99.9% number is metaphoric more than anything, denoting that most such reports can be shrugged off the instant you hear them based on content as well as the attitude/personality of the Psychic giving the details. When you start feeding officers information that connects dots to a crime, they sit up and pay attention a lot closer.
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby Scepcop » 14 Aug 2011, 09:41

Check out this segment from Unsolved Mysteries about psychic detectives. Skeptics, how do you explain it?

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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby Arouet » 14 Aug 2011, 10:32

I don't have to watch it. Explanation: It's a TV show.

You do know "how do you explain this" is just asking for arm-chair pseudo-skepticism. In any case on a popular tv show you only have access to what the producers want you to, and no controls over anything. Stick with controlled studies.
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby Scepcop » 14 Aug 2011, 10:38

Arouet wrote:I don't have to watch it. Explanation: It's a TV show.

You do know "how do you explain this" is just asking for arm-chair pseudo-skepticism. In any case on a popular tv show you only have access to what the producers want you to, and no controls over anything. Stick with controlled studies.


It's a TV program with REAL people and REAL cases and REAL examples. Watch it and explain please. That was a cheap copout. Don't waste my time please.

Here is an Unsolved Mysteries segment about psychic detective Dorothy Allison.



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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby Arouet » 14 Aug 2011, 12:39

Scepcop: do you understand how skepticism works? It's not just watching a video and spitballing on what the possible explanations are. It's about analysing the evidence and deciding whether it leads to reliable conclusions.
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby ProfWag » 14 Aug 2011, 19:11

Scepcop wrote:It's a TV program with REAL people and REAL cases and REAL examples. Watch it and explain please. That was a cheap copout. Don't waste my time please.


Penn & Teller's Bullsh!t is about REAL people and REAL cases and REAL examples also. Care to discuss one of their shows? Oh, you don't? Why not? You don't suppose it's for the same reason we don't want to discuss Unsolved Mysteries, do you?
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby NinjaPuppy » 14 Aug 2011, 19:39

Arouet wrote:Scepcop: do you understand how skepticism works? It's not just watching a video and spitballing on what the possible explanations are. It's about analysing the evidence and deciding whether it leads to reliable conclusions.

Arouet: Doing the above is exactly how an internet forum works. It IS sitting around watching video clips or killing time while throwing out whatever fits into the subject matter for discussion. I don't believe that any of us here are out to solve the world's mysteries. I know that I enjoy reading the different opinions and of course learning more about topics that are of interest to me. Especially since we do have continued input from different areas of expertise and/or personal experiences.

In it's own way, our comfy little group is similar to a dysfunctional family Thanksgiving dinner that never ends.

Please pass the gravy, the turkey is a bit dry.
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby Craig Browning » 15 Aug 2011, 00:03

In it's own way, our comfy little group is similar to a dysfunctional family Thanksgiving dinner that never ends.

Please pass the gravy, the turkey is a bit dry.


OMG! :o I knew something about all of this felt familiar to me. . . even the petty arguments... wow! :shock:

The turkey thing however. . . I don't know if you're poking fun at my sense of humor or just calling me a dry old bird :mrgreen:
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby NinjaPuppy » 15 Aug 2011, 01:34

Craig Browning wrote:OMG! :o I knew something about all of this felt familiar to me. . . even the petty arguments... wow! :shock:

The turkey thing however. . . I don't know if you're poking fun at my sense of humor or just calling me a dry old bird :mrgreen:

No Craig. I would NEVER call you a dry old bird. We do however, have quite a few turkeys around here. :lol:
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Re: Cases where Psychic's information finds body or makes ar

Postby Arouet » 15 Aug 2011, 05:09

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Arouet wrote:Scepcop: do you understand how skepticism works? It's not just watching a video and spitballing on what the possible explanations are. It's about analysing the evidence and deciding whether it leads to reliable conclusions.

Arouet: Doing the above is exactly how an internet forum works. It IS sitting around watching video clips or killing time while throwing out whatever fits into the subject matter for discussion. I don't believe that any of us here are out to solve the world's mysteries. I know that I enjoy reading the different opinions and of course learning more about topics that are of interest to me. Especially since we do have continued input from different areas of expertise and/or personal experiences.

In it's own way, our comfy little group is similar to a dysfunctional family Thanksgiving dinner that never ends.

Please pass the gravy, the turkey is a bit dry.


Well, except that the whole point of Scepcop's site (and his various treaties) is that pseudo-skepticism is bad. But then he invites pseudo-skeptical responses.

His implication is if I can't explain it, it must be true. But that's the wrong way to approach the question. The correct way is to ask: has the problem presented enough reliable evidence to form a reliable conclusion? What Scepcop is doing can't be described as skepticism.
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