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The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.

The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Student of Sophia » 25 Nov 2009, 08:57

I think the reason the challenge has not been beaten yet is because of the sheep-goat effect. If so then this effect needs to be overcome in order to beat the challenge. I have an idea how to do that.

First, I'll explain the sheep-goat effect a bit. Sheep are 'believers', and goats are 'non-believers'. A psychic challenger takes the million dollar challenge and fails. Why? Because the unconscious psi of Randi and all his goat fans interferes with the psi of the challenger, and no one is the wiser. The sheep-goat effect takes place under the threshold of conscious awareness.

So, here's what we need to do.

There is a correlation between meditation and psychic strength. I think the unconscious psi of the Randi goats could be overcome by a large group of experienced meditators working in psychic unison on a specific task. The more the better, but I think about a hundred or so should do it.

So step one would be getting the meditators together so they can practice group meditation. Step two would be arranging for a group application to the challenge. That could be the hardest part.

Step three would be arranging for the challenge to take place at a time and location that is calculated to be psi-conducive. Then get the meditators together and give them time to get in sync and presto.

Oh, and don't forget a camera to capture the look on Randi's face. :lol:
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Nostradamus » 25 Nov 2009, 11:39

I like the idea so put it to use and enter the challenge.

1. assemble a team
2. practice to make sure that the group can work together
3. apply for the challenge
4. arrange the challenge for a psi-conducive location and time

Why do you think a 100 people is needed. I mean, is that a 14 or 15 to 1 safety factor here compared to the number of observers from Randi's group? Remember that in many cases it is fairly easy to add streaming video and the tests can be watched worldwide as it happens.
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Nostradamus » 25 Nov 2009, 11:40

I just realized that this thread is titled with the words "only way".

Why do you think that this is the only way?
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Student of Sophia » 25 Nov 2009, 12:34

Nostradamus wrote:I like the idea...


Why do I doubt that?

...so put it to use and enter the challenge.


Hey I'm an idea guy not an implement guy. If someone happens to come across this idea and likes it and has the time and means to organize it and implement it, great. I'm not that guy. Why don't YOU put it to use and enter the challenge if you like it so much? 8-)

Why do you think a 100 people is needed. I mean, is that a 14 or 15 to 1 safety factor here compared to the number of observers from Randi's group? Remember that in many cases it is fairly easy to add streaming video and the tests can be watched worldwide as it happens.


Because it isn't just the goats in Randi's group that need to be overcome. It's the whole community, any goats who are aware of it or will be aware of it.
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Nostradamus » 25 Nov 2009, 12:44

Why do I doubt that?


You're not a pseudosckeptic are you?

I like the idea because you are saying that it is possible to get past the sheep-goat problem. What's wrong with saying that's good.

Why don't YOU put it to use and enter the challenge if you like it so much?

Because I'm a goat.

The reason I mentioned the worldwide streaming is that I see this as a potential problem and could see that the agreement on the challenge could be to delay the broadcast to ameliorate the sheep-goat concern.
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Student of Sophia » 25 Nov 2009, 12:47

Nostradamus wrote:
Why do I doubt that?


You're not a pseudosckeptic are you?

I like the idea because you are saying that it is possible to get past the sheep-goat problem. What's wrong with saying that's good.

Why don't YOU put it to use and enter the challenge if you like it so much?

Because I'm a goat.

The reason I mentioned the worldwide streaming is that I see this as a potential problem and could see that the agreement on the challenge could be to delay the broadcast to ameliorate the sheep-goat concern.


Well, you're a goat and I don't trust goats at all. So when you said you liked the idea I suspected sarcasm. I'm so used to snarky sarcasm and cynicism and mockery and hatred and condescension from "skeptics" that I can't take anything they say at face value anymore. Everything they say just rubs me the wrong way now. Didn't used to be that way but I just can't talk to them anymore. I just want to reach through my computer and beat the living snot out of them, too much Irish blood in me I guess. I'm tempted to just put them all on ignore. @&$# 'em.
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Nostradamus » 25 Nov 2009, 14:21

I do enjoy sarcasm, but I wasn't being sarcastic. I am all for testing ideas. I think that is good.

Just because I am a goat does not mean that I say psi is impossible or does not exist. The problem for me is that there is only anecdotal evidence to date.

What I don't believe is that it is impossible to test most things. I don't buy into the claim that things exists, but can't be tested. Some people try to do that with psi. Some of the goat-sheep write ups push that position. I think that claim is the same as saying it doesn't exist. But you on the other hand believe that the goat-sheep issue is a surmountable obstacle and that is why I liked your position. Although I am a goat and you a sheep we both believe that the testing is possible.

cheers
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby ciscop » 25 Nov 2009, 16:24

Nostradamus wrote:Because I'm a goat.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby ProfWag » 25 Nov 2009, 18:10

What you appear to be forgetting, Student, is that before you can even be considered for the challenge, you must first have documented evidence in the media and witnessed by someone with credentials such as in the academic community (from the JREF Challenge anyway). Get past those two hurdles and I can assure you that whichever challenge you are subjected to, the tester will take you seriously. The "only way to beat the challenge" is to have a paranormal ability. It's really as simple as that.
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby ciscop » 25 Nov 2009, 23:35

Student of Sophia wrote:
Hey I'm an idea guy not an implement guy.


is that another way of saying IM LAZY or maybe I DONT BELIEVE WHAT I AM WRITING?
a million dollars is not pocket change
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Student of Sophia » 26 Nov 2009, 08:19

ciscop wrote:
Student of Sophia wrote:
Hey I'm an idea guy not an implement guy.


is that another way of saying IM LAZY or maybe I DONT BELIEVE WHAT I AM WRITING?
a million dollars is not pocket change


No, it's not. I can't do something like that on my own. I wouldn't know where to begin. I'm not an organizer, I'm an idea man. Maybe if this entire community (other than the goats) and the Noetic Institute and other parapsychology organizations got behind the effort something could come of it. I'm just one person, gimme a fracking break. Do I have to do everything by myself? Sheesh.
Last edited by Student of Sophia on 26 Nov 2009, 10:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby Nostradamus » 26 Nov 2009, 08:49

A million split 100 ways still buys a lot of cervezas fria.

GO for the challenge. I can't. I'm a goat. So find a group and then find someone that wants to be in charge. Then pretend to grudging turn over the reins and voila everything happens and you get to have the fame of being able to show for the first time ever that all of those nincompoop smart guys were wrong about psi.
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby ciscop » 26 Nov 2009, 15:05

Student of Sophia wrote:
ciscop wrote:
Student of Sophia wrote:
Hey I'm an idea guy not an implement guy.


is that another way of saying IM LAZY or maybe I DONT BELIEVE WHAT I AM WRITING?
a million dollars is not pocket change


No, it's not. I can't do something like that on my own. I wouldn't know where to begin. I'm not an organizer, I'm an idea man. Maybe if this entire community (other than the goats) and the Noetic Institute and other parapsychology organizations got behind the effort something could come of it. I'm just one person, gimme a fracking break. Do I have to do everything by myself? Sheesh.


start at least a facebook group
who cares, is a start

even if you dont do anything
and keep complaining there's psi althought there's no evidence for it
i wish you good luck
i will even join your effort if you want
i really wish there was evidence for psi
the world will be even more interesting than it already is
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby kokopelli » 12 Jan 2010, 02:02

I can predict, with 100% certainty, that I won't win The Amazing Randi's million dollar challenge.
OK, now give me my cash! ;)
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Re: The Only Way to Beat the "Challenge"...

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Jan 2010, 03:47

kokopelli wrote:I can predict, with 100% certainty, that I won't win The Amazing Randi's million dollar challenge.
OK, now give me my cash! ;)

I don't have that kind of cash to give you but I can give you a WELCOME!
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