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Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.

Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Postby Scepcop » 16 May 2009, 12:43

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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge with Homeopath George Vithoulka

Postby Scepcop » 16 May 2009, 12:44

Response from John Benneth:


Dear Dr. Vithoulkas,

Regarding http://www.vithoulkas.com/content/view/1973/lang,en/

This is to notify you of a prior lien on James Randi aka Randal Zwicke, the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) and it's treasurer, Richard Adams', offer to pay one million dollars for proof of homeopathy by John R. Benneth of West Linn, Oregon, USA.

I am the lien holder, a student of evidential homeopathy. In 1999 I filled out the JREF application and sent it in to James Randi, which he accepted. After long negotiations and voluminous email, Mr. Randi demurred and never acted on it. Professors Josephson and Benveniste referred Mr. Randi back to me when he tried to dodge me and test a controversial biochemical method instead.

Proof for homeopathy, which Randi accepted, was to simply use a physical method by which to identify a serial agitated dilute from its liquid vehicle. Randi said that if the identification could be made using any method, that would win the Challenge award.

Physical identification was reputedly done by Alphonse Gay and Jean Boiron in the 1950's using a modified galvanometer to measure the dielectric stress differences between a saline dilute and its inert base. Their demonstration successfully identified 600 samples.


Gay and Boiron , A Study of the Physics of Dynamization, Edition des Laboratories P.H.R.,
Lyon, France, 1952
Gay and Boiron, A Physical Demonstration of the Real Existence of the Homeopathic Remedy, Edition des Laboratories P.H.R., Lyon, France 1953


Since then there have been other methods employed by which to analyze serial agitated dilutes, most notably NMR and beta scintillation. Rolland Conte reportedly branded scintillation film with the beta radiation emitted from a high dilute. See THEORY OF HIGH DILUTIONS, Polytechnica, Paris 46.
Goto http://high-dilutions.net/

Modern crystallography has also made the same determination.

The Structure Of Liquid Water; Novel Insights From Materials Research; Potential Relevance To Homeopathy, Rustum Roy, W.A. Tiller, Iris Bell, M. R. Hoover
Materials Research Innovations 9:4, 577-608, (2005)
http://hpathy.com/research/Roy_Structure-of-Water.pdf
WEBCAST:
Preview
http://www.txoptions.com/videocast/nchwebcast.php
Audio
http://www.txoptions.com/videocast/nchwebcast.php

By comparison to the aforementioned physical studies, Randi's challenge is quite simple. A clinical demonstration, by Randi's account, is not necessary.

So, if the only problem is that you don't have an application to submit for Randi's million dollar challenge to homeopathy, perhaps you could use mine.
Please let me know if you're interested.
best regards,
JOHN BENNETH
503 819 7777
March 1, 2009

APPENDIX:
ROY, TILLER, BELL, HOOVER: The Structure Of Liquid Water; Novel Insights From Materials Research; Potential Relevance To Homeopathy
Rustum Roy, W.A. Tiller, Iris Bell, M. R. Hoover
Materials Research Innovations 9:4, 577-608, (2005)
http://hpathy.com/research/Roy_Structure-of-Water.pdf

WEBCAST:
Preview
http://www.txoptions.com/videocast/nchwebcast.php
Audio
http://www.txoptions.com/videocast/nchwebcast.php

Ultradilute Ag-aquasols with extraordinary
bactericidal properties: role of the system
Ag–O–H2O
Materials Research Innovations, Volume 11, Number 1, March 2007, pg. 3-18.
R. Roy1, M. R. Hoover*1, A. S. Bhalla1, T. Slawecki1, S. Dey2, W. Cao2, J. Li2 and S. Bhaskar2
http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/del ... 86AA08CFC8

JONAS/DILLNER: PROTECTION OF MICE FROM TULAREMIA INFECTION WITH ULTRA LOW SERIAL AGITATED DILUTIONS PREPARED FROM FRANCISELLA TULAREMIA INFECTED TISSUE
http://www.homeopathy.org/research/basi ... illner.pdf

CUBA: HOMEOPATHY STOPS EPIDEMIC
http://www.hpathy.com/homeopathyforums/ ... &PID=84724
and
http://homeopathyresource.wordpress.com ... e-authors/

MD ANDERSON CLINIC: HOMEOPATHY CURES CANCER
http://www.virtualtrials.com/pdf/ruta6.pdf

PEER REVIEW: HOMEOPATHY CLINICAL TRIALS http://www.sherwoodtowne.com/pb/wp_9eaaa71d.html

META ANALYSIS
THE LANCET: Are the clinical effects of homoeopathy placebo effects? A
meta-analysis of placebo-controlled trials
The Lancet, September 20, Vol. 350, 1997
http://www.chalmersresearch.com/bmg/docs/t3a1.pdf

JOSEPHSON: NOBEL PRIZE WINNING PHYSICIST ON HOMEOPATHY
http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/wat ... pathy.html

TILLER: On Chemical Medicine, Thermodynamics, and Homeopathy
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10 ... 006.12.685

FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: HOMEOPATHY APPROVED
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/096_home.html

ENNIS: BENVENISTE VINDICATED
Replications by pan European labs
Histamine dilutions modulate basophil activation
Inflammation Research, v 53 #5, April 200
http://www.springerlink.com/content/dmby16rmj02dhxat/

Interview with Madeleine Ennis
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Artic ... 21,00.html

CALLINAN: HOW DOES HOMEOPATHY WORK?
http://www.marlev.com/HowItWorks.htm

ALLAN: BEYOND SUBSTANCE
Viral assays reveal action of high dilutes
http://www.normanallan.com/Sci/bs.html

NEWS ITEM: THE QUEEN’s HOMEOPATH & THERMOLUMINESCENCE
http://www.6minutes.com.au/articles/z1/ ... ?id=220977


CONTE, BERLIOCHI, LASGNE, VERNOT: THEORY OF HIGH DILUTIONS
http://high-dilutions.net/


ROY: THE SCIENCE OF WATER
Penn State
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/


IRIS BELL’s HOMEOPATHY EVIDENCE RESEARCH BASE
http://homeopathyusa.org/uploads/Homeop ... rences.pdf

Leptospirosis mortality in Cuba: 1987 - 1993.
http://www.medicc.org/publications/medi ... _lepto.htm



BRIZZI: HOMEOPATHIC AGRONOMY
A Biostatistical Insight into the As2O3 High Dilution Effects on the Rate and Variability of Wheat Seedling Growth
http://content.karger.com/produktedb/pr ... /000087968

BENNETH: 100 YEARS OF EVIDENTIAL HOMEOPATHY
http://johnbenneth.wordpress.com/about/

CHALLENGES TO HOMEOPATHY

NCAHF VS. KING: HOMEOPATHY PROVEN IN COURT
http://www.healthfreedomlaw.com/Court%2 ... icated.htm

VITHOULKAS: RANDI BACKS DOWN
http://www.naturalnews.com/025627.html


Clinical Trials of Homeopathy and Placebo: Analysis of a Scientific Debate
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10 ... .2000.6.49
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge with Homeopath George Vithoulka

Postby antiskeptic » 27 May 2009, 10:49

Maybe somebody with more pull than me can e-mail Vithoulkas and ask him if he plans on suing Randi in court. I sent him an e-mail about this and he never got back to me. I hope he can sue because I think that it would be important to have this case in a public record.
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge with Homeopath George Vithoulka

Postby The Professor » 21 Jul 2009, 09:54

I think that a Class Action suit or something of that nature is in order here!
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge with Homeopath George Vithoulka

Postby Azrael » 23 Jul 2009, 04:20

If the guy cannot read simple rules whose fault is it? Will he sue? No. Because he woudl inevitably lose.

Just like the Professor wont sue. He has no balls.
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge with Homeopath George Vithoulka

Postby Scepcop » 23 Jul 2009, 04:55

Azrael wrote:If the guy cannot read simple rules whose fault is it? Will he sue? No. Because he woudl inevitably lose.

Just like the Professor wont sue. He has no balls.


Azrael, stop making unfounded statements like that without facts and examples. If this homeopath George Vitalhoukous didn't follow the rules, then state exactly what he didn't comply with. According to the story, everything was followed to a T, money and time was invested too, then suddenly Randi backed out with excuses.

Please stick to facts and examples. Skeptics who only insult and ridicule and assume incompetence on their opponents, are not welcome here. This forum is for open minded intellectual objective truth seeking types, whether believer or non-believer. It's not for a piss war.
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge with Homeopath George Vithoulka

Postby Azrael » 23 Jul 2009, 06:23

Scepcop wrote:
Azrael wrote:If the guy cannot read simple rules whose fault is it? Will he sue? No. Because he woudl inevitably lose.

Just like the Professor wont sue. He has no balls.


Azrael, stop making unfounded statements like that without facts and examples. If this homeopath George Vitalhoukous didn't follow the rules, then state exactly what he didn't comply with. According to the story, everything was followed to a T, money and time was invested too, then suddenly Randi backed out with excuses.

Please stick to facts and examples. Skeptics who only insult and ridicule and assume incompetence on their opponents, are not welcome here. This forum is for open minded intellectual objective truth seeking types, whether believer or non-believer. It's not for a piss war.


Can you ask The Professor to show some evidence for his claims.After all he is just flaming and starting a piss war. Or does that not count because he is dissing Randi?

Who is this George guy not even Google knows him. Thats hurtful.
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge with Homeopath George Vithoulka

Postby Scepcop » 23 Jul 2009, 21:44

Azrael wrote:Can you ask The Professor to show some evidence for his claims.After all he is just flaming and starting a piss war. Or does that not count because he is dissing Randi?

Who is this George guy not even Google knows him. Thats hurtful.


We did, in another thread. This thread is about George Vithoulkas. Please stay on topic.

If you google "George Vithoulkas" you will get hits. The thread title ran out of room and so the last few letters of his last name didn't show up here. I already fixed that. But if you had gone to the link posted above in the thread to the article, you would have seen his full name anyway. But I guess you were too intellectually lazy to do that huh? lol
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Postby Azrael » 24 Jul 2009, 01:08

Why have no homeopaths and/or George Vithoulkas proceeded to have their claims tested and peer reviewed? George Vithoulkas claimed he was going to go ahead with a test without Randi in December last year.
So Scepcop you can direct us all to the journal written about Homeopaths being scientifically proven can't you?
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Postby The Professor » 24 Jul 2009, 13:18

TROLLS can be cured with a small dose of KOOL- AID :)

Oh ... they've already been given a dose of something from Randi :)

Homeopathy has some fantastic evidence supporting it. Why won't Randi allow this information in his rigged challenge?

http://www.uploadpedia.com/3015K1KO9LHD ... i-zip.html
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Postby Azrael » 24 Jul 2009, 17:59

The Professor wrote:TROLLS can be cured with a small dose of KOOL- AID :)

Oh ... they've already been given a dose of something from Randi :)

Homeopathy has some fantastic evidence supporting it. Why won't Randi allow this information in his rigged challenge?

http://www.uploadpedia.com/3015K1KO9LHD ... i-zip.html


So you can direct us all to the journal written about Homeopaths being scientifically proven can't you?
I'm always very skeptical of any situation where someone's notability hinges on their connection to another notable person
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Postby skeprogue » 26 Jul 2009, 13:24

Azrael wrote:So you can direct us all to the journal written about Homeopaths being scientifically proven can't you?



< sfx: crickets chirping >
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Postby The Professor » 30 Jul 2009, 12:31

How many obsolete computers do you have John? .. or just different servers ?. Not sure how you do it but it's AMAZING ..NO ONE KNOWS :)
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Postby skeprogue » 30 Jul 2009, 19:47

The Professor wrote:How many obsolete computers do you have John? .. or just different servers ?. Not sure how you do it but it's AMAZING ..NO ONE KNOWS :)


You seem to be implying that I am John.

Does he scare you so much?

MOD: I request that "the Professor's" posts be moderated and unless he offers citations to back up his crap, they not be approved now that he is once again directly attacking forum member, despite his pledge not to.
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Re: Randi Backs Out of Challenge w/Homeopath George Vithoulkas

Postby Azrael » 30 Jul 2009, 21:09

Yes I do scare him. A great deal. WHy would I need multiple ID's? Hello Im here this is me!
Moderator inform the troll Professor that I have only one account. Better still ban him.
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