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Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

24 Aug 2009, 10:28

yep
i would also like a link to that

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

24 Aug 2009, 14:13

so what am i - your man servant ?? - go find the info yourselves - you guys probably know your way around the jref forum well enough ;)

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

24 Aug 2009, 16:05

brett wrote:so what am i - your man servant ?? - go find the info yourselves - you guys probably know your way around the jref forum well enough ;)


So you admit you made it up? you made a serious claim,now prove it!

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

24 Aug 2009, 19:04

Azrael wrote:
brett wrote:so what am i - your man servant ?? - go find the info yourselves - you guys probably know your way around the jref forum well enough ;)


So you admit you made it up? you made a serious claim,now prove it!


nope i did not - there is a thread discussing depression on the jref forum - and many contributors seem to be or have been suffering from depressive symptoms ( according to their own words ) - so why would i need to make this up ?? eh ?? - go look for yourself - lots of people suffer from depression - - no biggie - just thought it interesting that they should even be discussing it in such a positive way - very few "its all in the mind " or " they are just feeling sorry for themselves " comments - which is what i would have expected from skeptics - quite refreshing actually :D

see once again you have pounced on me before finding out what i actually was referring to - and my reasons for doing so :roll:

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

24 Aug 2009, 21:40

brett wrote:so what am i - your man servant ?? - go find the info yourselves - you guys probably know your way around the jref forum well enough ;)

Just imagine if you were a college professor assigning a research paper. Your students submitted them with all sorts of claims and on the reference page they said "look it up yourself." Oh yea, that would go far...

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

24 Aug 2009, 22:04

brett wrote:nope i did not - there is a thread discussing depression on the jref forum - and many contributors seem to be or have been suffering from depressive symptoms ( according to their own words ) - so why would i need to make this up ?? eh ?? - go look for yourself - lots of people suffer from depression - - no biggie - just thought it interesting that they should even be discussing it in such a positive way - very few "its all in the mind " or " they are just feeling sorry for themselves " comments - which is what i would have expected from skeptics - quite refreshing actually :D


Medical science recognizes that depression can be caused by brain chemistry. There are medications available to depressed patients which alter their brain chemistry in ways that improve their condition. Since skeptics usually look to science as a means of verifying claims, I don't know why you would have expected skeptics to make comments like, "its all in the mind " or " they are just feeling sorry for themselves ". Those kind of comments would come from people who reject the scientific explanation for depression.

Perhaps your understanding of the nature of skepticism puts you at a disadvantage?

Frank Lee

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

24 Aug 2009, 23:48

ProfWag wrote:
brett wrote:so what am i - your man servant ?? - go find the info yourselves - you guys probably know your way around the jref forum well enough ;)

Just imagine if you were a college professor assigning a research paper. Your students submitted them with all sorts of claims and on the reference page they said "look it up yourself." Oh yea, that would go far...



ah but i ain't some student am i prof ?? - so i can say that - and as you will see i was actually quite impressed with the attitude displayed ;)

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

24 Aug 2009, 23:53

Frank Lee wrote:
brett wrote:nope i did not - there is a thread discussing depression on the jref forum - and many contributors seem to be or have been suffering from depressive symptoms ( according to their own words ) - so why would i need to make this up ?? eh ?? - go look for yourself - lots of people suffer from depression - - no biggie - just thought it interesting that they should even be discussing it in such a positive way - very few "its all in the mind " or " they are just feeling sorry for themselves " comments - which is what i would have expected from skeptics - quite refreshing actually :D


Medical science recognizes that depression can be caused by brain chemistry. There are medications available to depressed patients which alter their brain chemistry in ways that improve their condition. Since skeptics usually look to science as a means of verifying claims, I don't know why you would have expected skeptics to make comments like, "its all in the mind " or " they are just feeling sorry for themselves ". Those kind of comments would come from people who reject the scientific explanation for depression.

Perhaps your understanding of the nature of skepticism puts you at a disadvantage?

Frank Lee


hi frank - actually yes i would - in ANY group there is always one who says just that - perhaps their understanding of the nature of depression puts them at a disadvantage ?? ;) - there was one who did make such a comment - and was silenced by the others - quite impressive :D

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

25 Aug 2009, 00:05

brett wrote:ah but i ain't some student am i prof ??...

That much is obvious.

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

25 Aug 2009, 00:39

Azrael wrote in reply to Brett’s quote:
Azrael wrote:
Brett wrote:
so what am i - your man servant ?? - go find the info yourselves - you guys probably know your way around the jref forum well enough

So you admit you made it up? you made a serious claim,now prove it!


Where did Brett admit to making it up? Brett has not admitted to anything like what you are suggesting. I suggest you get your facts straight before accusing people of things they have not done.

Frank Lee wrote:
Perhaps your understanding of the nature of skepticism puts you at a disadvantage?


Perhaps your idealism with regards to how skepticism is practiced and propagated, blinds your own views and judgment?

Brett wrote:
see once again you have pounced on me before finding out what i actually was referring to - and my reasons for doing so


I agree Brett they do seem to have an irrational tendency for doing that! ;) One can only surmise that the aforementioned perpetrators are either:

(a). Over sensitive.

(b).Carry too much baggage of the prior assumption kind! ;)

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

25 Aug 2009, 01:05

No-one jumped on Brett,we merely asked for a link. If thats classed as "jumping on someone" then it happens a lot. :shock:
Implication that there was a relevance to people being depressed and on JREF forum:-

however - stumbling ( inadvertently ) onto the jref forum this morning i find that a LOT of his supporters claim to be "clinically depressed " ( 10 or more pages of this ) - this i found somewhat interesting - and will have to ponder the significance of this


Now he is backtracking
brett wrote:
nope i did not - there is a thread discussing depression on the jref forum - and many contributors seem to be or have been suffering from depressive symptoms ( according to their own words ) - so why would i need to make this up ?? eh ?? - go look for yourself - lots of people suffer from depression - - no biggie - just thought it interesting that they should even be discussing it in such a positive way - very few "its all in the mind " or " they are just feeling sorry for themselves " comments - which is what i would have expected from skeptics - quite refreshing actually :D

see once again you have pounced on me before finding out what i actually was referring to - and my reasons for doing so :roll:


Incidentally how do you stumble upon JREF forum?

Still waiting for a link.

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

25 Aug 2009, 01:39

Azrael wrote:
No-one jumped on Brett,we merely asked for a link.


Yes you did, you accused him of making it up heres the evidence:

Azrael wrote:
So you admit you made it up? you made a serious claim,now prove it!


That’s not asking Brett for a link, it's accusing Brett of lying! If you asked for a link in polite terms without the innuendos then I would not have a problem, however that was not the case as I have just proven!

Prof wag wrote:
Code:
Just imagine if you were a college professor assigning a research paper. Your students submitted them with all sorts of claims and on the reference page they said "look it up yourself." Oh yea, that would go far...


Brett's response was a response on a forum not a research paper! Actually I am a student part time as I work full time and have many other interests. A lot of the assignments I have to research and reference myself, asking for links and references all the time would be counter productive. Part of learning is learning how to learn, this involves looking up peer reviewed information yourself without having someone do it for you. Therefore the college professor analogy is looking a bit wooly as part of your rebuttal to Brett.

However a link would be nice, as I can be a lazy bastard sometimes! :lol: ;)

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

25 Aug 2009, 01:51

Yes, links are nice. Although not always a necessity, if one is going to make a claim such as the one Brett did and then asked for a link to back up that claim, it would be nice to provide one or state that it was merely an opinion formulated from observations. I don't think we're asking for the references to be in APA style formatting.

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

25 Aug 2009, 01:58

For what it's worth:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... depression

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

25 Aug 2009, 02:11

brett wrote:hi frank - actually yes i would - in ANY group there is always one who says just that - perhaps their understanding of the nature of depression puts them at a disadvantage ?? ;) - there was one who did make such a comment - and was silenced by the others - quite impressive :D


Unfortunately since you are generalizing ("in ANY group there is always one who says just that") and cannot provide a cite to back up, "there was one who did make such a comment - and was silenced by the others", you don't bring much credibility to your position. It's easy to say that you read something somewhere that proves your point but you can't be bothered to supply a link to it. Believers of nonsense do this all the time. With the same results.

Frank Lee
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