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More on JREF Fraud

Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.

Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby ProfWag » 06 Jun 2012, 20:58

Okay, I don't want to attack his character since I don't know the guy personally other than a handshake at a magic convention decages ago. But let's assume for a minute that he's a child molester and a lover to a fraud. Does that mean that the money for his million dollar challenge is not there or that he knowingly does not allow those who may be able to pass the challenge not take it? I don't think so. Thinking financially for a second, should someone actually be able to pass the MDC, the JREF would stand to make millions more off of their support of proving the paranormal abilities of the person who passed it. So, regardless of what character bashing one wants to do with Randi, being pissed off at him about his challenge is quite silly if you ask me.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby BillPerron » 18 Jun 2012, 04:11

When I applied for the Million Dollar Challenge Randi accepted my challenge, but after I insisted we video tape the testing procedure Randi blatantly lied to weasel out of my challenge saying "Perron would have won. He is a liar !!! And he is ugly too.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby Arouet » 18 Jun 2012, 04:35

Here is the JREF thread related to the application of a William Perron. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=58629

If this poster is indeed that guy its easy to imagine why they didn't get far in the negotiations.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby BillPerron » 18 Jun 2012, 06:44

Really? Why do you say that? If Randi lied Perron has reason to be upset if Randi accepted his challenge then weaseled out. Perron deserved a chance after he was accepted, not weasel cowardly lies.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby ProfWag » 18 Jun 2012, 23:51

BillPerron wrote:When I applied for the Million Dollar Challenge Randi accepted my challenge,.

I couldn't find where Randi accepted your challenge. Could you please provide either the link or the documentation? Thanks.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby Arouet » 19 Jun 2012, 00:45

Hmm, I had a post there which seems to not have gone through. BP: you've switched into third person there referring to Bill Perron, your OP implied that you were the guy who applied. If you're not the guy then I agree it would be unfair to draw any inferences about the real BP from your post.

In any event, the protocols in the thread I linked to seem grossly deficient. Perhaps you have information that better protocols were advanced but I can't imagine JREF ever having accepted the protocols as displayed in that post.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby BillPerron » 19 Jun 2012, 07:04

I am Bill Perron, I have both the acceptance and rejection printed hard copies. I printed them off the Randi site and also have them on the stationary Randi used to mail me. I am a professional magician, have been for over thirty years. Mark Edward a mentalist (that I used to consider a friend until he went over to the dark side and decided in his quest for fame and fortune by joining up with Randi, Shermer, Novello, and other low life Thought Nazis) dared me to take the Randi challenge because no other magician we knew of had. I knew if Randi was aware that a magician was applying he would automatically be rejected so I purposely applied in a manner to make him think I was just another deluded applicant because Randi will not test anyone he thinks has a chance to win. I read up a lot on Randi and talked to other magicians at the Castle and psychics I had worked with as an entertainer. After reading sTARBABY by Rawlins I decided astrology was his weakest point because he had already committed fraud in 1979 along with the other integrity challenged members of CSICOP in the Gauquelin astrology research that CSICOP in it's comical attempt to discredit actually to their surprise and frustration they had validated using the exact same methods of Gauquelin. After accepting my challenge Randi proceeded to make demands that would alter the test, I protested and insisted we video tape the testing because if I had to take him to court to collect the video could be evidence to support my claim. Randi then proceeded to blatantly lie posting at his site and in a letter to me that he was rejecting the Perron challenge because "Perron wants no photos taken." I protested and he responded at his site by intentionally defaming me by posting a photo shopped picture that made me look ridiculous. I have a standing offer of ten thousand dollars for Randi or anyone else that can produce any evidence I wanted no photos taken, so far no takers, I have made this offer at skeptic sites, no takers, I have made this offer to Michael Shermer and others, no takers, when I called Shermer he screamed into the telephone to leave him alone he did not want to hear anything about Randi from me. I will be glad to personally answer any questions. Unlike many professional pseudo sceptics I have nothing to hide and can document everything stated. My phone number is 626-579-3697 call anytime.Thank you, Bill Perron www.billperron.com
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby Arouet » 19 Jun 2012, 07:15

I'm confused: were you applying for the MDC to do a magic trick or do you believe you have real psi abilities?

Why did you refer to yourself in the third person.

Was the protocol you put forward the one in the link I provided? Or was there a revised one?
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby BillPerron » 19 Jun 2012, 07:39

I replied in the 3rd. person because I wanted to, no special reason.

I was applying to either win the million and expose Randi as a fraud. It was an astrology challenge, you don't have to have any powers to do astrology, people on this site should already know that.

The protocol provided was the protocol. My computer is amazing.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby Arouet » 19 Jun 2012, 09:26

BillPerron wrote:I replied in the 3rd. person because I wanted to, no special reason.


Ok.

I was applying to either win the million and expose Randi as a fraud. It was an astrology challenge, you don't have to have any powers to do astrology, people on this site should already know that.


You are being coy: did you apply believing astrology to be real? (ie: paranormal, psi based, spiritually based, whatever term you want to use, you know what I mean). Or do you aim to pass the challenge through magic (ie: mundane techniques having nothing to do with the paranormal) or other tricks/mundane methods?

The protocol provided was the protocol. My computer is amazing.


I don't have the correspondence, but my guess is you are confusing Randi agreeing to negotiate with you and try to develop a protocol together with Randi agreeing to test you based on your first draft of your protocol. If you post the letters we can see if I'm right.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby BillPerron » 19 Jun 2012, 11:25

You seem to be confusing plain English with Randibot speak, are you perhaps a Randibot troll? It's O.K. with me if you are, just be honest about it. Being coy?
Please stop trying to twist my words you only insult yourself by doing so, I confuse nothing, he accepted my challenge then lied to weasel out by saying I wanted no photos taken when I demanded we video tape everything. Is it so hard for you to accept I am telling the truth and Randi is a liar?
Whatever my understanding about astrology has nothing to do with being publicly lied about. If you want you are welcome to claim the ten thousand dollars, just produce evidence I am not telling the 100% truth. I can make that offer because I know exactly what the truth is and as I said before I can document everything I claim.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby Arouet » 19 Jun 2012, 11:43

BillPerron wrote:You seem to be confusing plain English with Randibot speak, are you perhaps a Randibot troll? It's O.K. with me if you are, just be honest about it.


Nah, I like some things he's done, dislike others. I pretty much think he's a jerk and don't like his method of advocacy, but I appreciate the role he's played in building the skeptical movement. Now that that's settled...

Being coy?


Yes, you knew what I was getting act. Are you claiming to demonstrate something paranormal or not? Do you believe astrology is effective? I think you knew that's what I was getting at and I interpret your evasiveness as being coy. Now, you can correct that impression by simply answering the question.

Please stop trying to twist my words you only insult yourself by doing so, I confuse nothing, he accepted my challenge then lied to weasel out by saying I wanted no photos taken when I demanded we video tape everything. Is it so hard for you to accept I am telling the truth and Randi is a liar?


Well, in this case, based on the protocol you presented, I would be very surprised if Randi had simply accepted it with the only issue being about videotaping it. You''ve provided no other information so far (perhaps you've supplied it elsewhere, I couldn't find it on your site though. So yes, I question whether Randi agreed to that protocol. Perhaps you could show us where he agreed, that would answer the question. Why not post the letter?

Whatever my understanding about astrology has nothing to do with being publicly lied about.


He may or may not have done that. You seem to want me to just take your word on it.

If you want you are welcome to claim the ten thousand dollars, just produce evidence I am not telling the 100% truth. I can make that offer because I know exactly what the truth is and as I said before I can document everything I claim.


I know nothing of this matter outside of the thread I linked to and the swift article that thread linked to. If you have more information to post for discussion, why not post it (or link to it if its elsewhere. I had never heard of you before you posted in this thread.

What exactly were you looking for? To come in and say "Randi lied about me!" and have a bunch of people console you? Maybe you are deserving of being consoled, but for some reason you've gone straight to aggression without actually posting any substance. I have no horse in this matter. I've said that Randi has acted poorly during other MDC negotiations that I know about. But you've provided nothing! Why not post the letters then we'll have something to talk about.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby ProfWag » 19 Jun 2012, 21:04

BillPerron wrote: ...he accepted my challenge then lied to weasel out by saying I wanted no photos taken when I demanded we video tape everything. Is it so hard for you to accept I am telling the truth and Randi is a liar?...

It is my understanding that the challenge is not accepted until all protocols are agreed upon and Randi has signed it. Based on this comment, you're saying that the protocols were agreed to and he then backed out. So, you have a signed agreement? If so, then you should sue him as once he has signed it, it becomes a legally bounding document.
As Arouet stated, we would have to see the protocol and agreement to determine if we're all on the same page and doing a search of the jref site, I couldn't find an accepted challenge which is why we're asking.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby BillPerron » 19 Jun 2012, 22:17

In another time in another place your comment about being "coy" would have earned you a challenge to meet at sunrise with gun blazing, or in the squared ring where I would have broken your nose or blackened your eyes, or perhaps both. Infatuated teen aged girls play coy, not grown men. Just because you are on the internet doesn't give you license to make cowardly insulting comments. Before this discussion goes any further if you know what is good for you you will apologize immediately.
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Re: More on JREF Fraud

Postby Arouet » 19 Jun 2012, 22:29

BillPerron wrote:In another time in another place your comment about being "coy" would have earned you a challenge to meet at sunrise with gun blazing, or in the squared ring where I would have broken your nose or blackened your eyes, or perhaps both. Infatuated teen aged girls play coy, not grown men. Just because you are on the internet doesn't give you license to make cowardly insulting comments. Before this discussion goes any further if you know what is good for you you will apologize immediately.


Ahh, physical threats. Perhaps you think breaking someone's nose is an appropriate solution for "grown men" but some of us believe that using words is more a mark being a grown up than knocking someone's block off.

As for apologizing to you, I'm not going to do that, but perhaps I can clarify since perhaps you misunderstood. Here's the definition of coy:

coy/koi/
Adjective:
(esp. of a woman) Making a pretense of shyness or modesty that is intended to be alluring but is often regarded as irritating.
Reluctant to give details, esp. about something regarded as sensitive.


Now, I guess you're focussing on the first one and imagining a girl batting her eyelashes and playing hard to get. I suppose I could apologise to you for leading you to believe I was offending your outdated conception of manhood.

However, what I was getting at was clearly the second definition: reluctance to give details. You were being deliberately evasive in answering my question. You still haven't answered the question and the way things have been going I am doubting that you intend to.
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