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So what's the deal with Randi?

Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.

Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Jayhawker30 » 25 Aug 2011, 12:10

Craig Browning wrote:And then we wonder why, nearly every time the whole Uncle Pervy trial transcripts get posted (especially the audio file of the phone calls) the site gets hacked or somehow forced to close down. Same goes for one or two other sites that have been posted, challenging the Million Dollar hoax and the credibility of several key players in the skeptic's community (amazing how many of them have a record for loosing their temper in public and general violence).


This sounds interesting.

Asking not as someone who seeks to refute, but to learn, what is the nature of these items Craig?
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Craig Browning » 25 Aug 2011, 20:34

Not ignoring you Jayhawker, there are a few sources around about Randi's adventures with the lads and I do believe there is a thread on this forum that briefly goes into the details. Skeptics work really hard at playing it down and screaming that "he was never found guilty" in that the cop that arrested him conveniently died a few days prior to the trial itself. There are other situations as well, not all of it sexual but most of it questionable.

You may want to speak with the publisher of FATE Magazine, I'm certain he would be willing to point you to a few sources that are current.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 27 Aug 2011, 02:09

Yes, at one time there was a supposed transcript of this posted on this forum. It was deleted as the quality of the source and information could not be verified at the time.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby ProfWag » 28 Aug 2011, 10:36

NinjaPuppy wrote:Yes, at one time there was a supposed transcript of this posted on this forum. It was deleted as the quality of the source and information could not be verified at the time.

Since this was starting to be a negative thread concerning Mr. Randi, his side of the story (which can be verified if someone cares enough to do so) is that those tapes were made in collaboration with the police department to catch suspected pedophiles and they actually captured some of them. Articles on the arrests that resulted from Randi's assistance can be found in the Asbury Park NJ newspapers. Perhaps someone should actually research that story rather than put thoughts into people's minds that could potentially be slanderous...Just sayin'...
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Craig Browning » 29 Aug 2011, 00:21

ProfWag wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:Yes, at one time there was a supposed transcript of this posted on this forum. It was deleted as the quality of the source and information could not be verified at the time.

Since this was starting to be a negative thread concerning Mr. Randi, his side of the story (which can be verified if someone cares enough to do so) is that those tapes were made in collaboration with the police department to catch suspected pedophiles and they actually captured some of them. Articles on the arrests that resulted from Randi's assistance can be found in the Asbury Park NJ newspapers. Perhaps someone should actually research that story rather than put thoughts into people's minds that could potentially be slanderous...Just sayin'...


No, no... that's the cover story. The actual cop tied to the incident died just prior to the court case and his notes indicated much to the contrary. Then again, Mr. Randi has paid for more than a few young lad's to go to college and kept their parents mouths shut. Then we have the group of under-aged lads found living in Randi's basement at one point in time; all illegal immigrants with the oldest being 16 if I recall the details right.

But if we are going to go for public records, explain why his home nation (Canada, home of the most tolerant people on earth) THREW HIM OUT OF THE COUNTRY and revoked his citizenship. Explain his ties with known art world confidence artists and even the story behind his attempt to have his primary competition during the 70's (Steve Baker a.k.a. "Mr. Escape" of Dick Clark fame) meet with a fiery "accident" during a Tv shoot in South America. . . an incident that has film footage that's been conveniently tied-up in litigation for most of the past 20 years.

His cover story claim of working with the American CIA and such don't jive given his sympathies in the 60's with Communist elements in Canada as well as the U.S. not exactly a kosher position to find yourself in back then.

The Asbury Park news stories don't tell the full truth and critics of that particular court case have reason to suspect some behind the scenes "arrangements" were being made because of the "politics" surrounding the incident. But as I've stated, find the magicians that were teen agers working at Tannen's Magic back in the 70's if you want to discover what's actually happened and not just this one incident. Do some footwork around the summer camps Randi did spots at as well as the more noted magic conventions of the day.

Several of the victims from this era will only speak privately about what happened for any number of reasons, I have one of these gents that I've been trying to get to go public for several years now, to blow the whistle before the old troll finally kicks the bucket. But he's afraid to because of how it could hurt him professionally (not that magic is a politically oriented beast or anything) but likewise the emotional distress he will have to endure when it comes to "dealing with it" one more time; I don't think many of us would be willing to deal with such things even in knowing that we are being of service to others.

As I say almost constantly, there is much more to it all. In the case of Mr. Randi and several of his affiliates, there's a hell of a lot more that never gets the light of day though it is all founded on established and witnessed facts.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Jayhawker30 » 29 Aug 2011, 11:21

:shock:

I had no idea someone who looks so much like Santa Claus could be so evil. Although, I was kind of hoping for something related to the challenge...
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Arouet » 29 Aug 2011, 22:24

Craig: if Randi has abused children I will be among the first to skewer him. And you may indeed be right about him. But I'm not comfortable with these vague statments you make about some pretty darn serious charges.

Also: what do you mean that Canada revoked his citizenship? That sounds absurd. Canada allows dual citizenship. I couldn't find anything on that using google. Statements like that next to serious accusations make me question all of it!
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 30 Aug 2011, 00:14

Arouet wrote:what do you mean that Canada revoked his citizenship? That sounds absurd. Canada allows dual citizenship. I couldn't find anything on that using google. Statements like that next to serious accusations make me question all of it!

Yes, I am curious about that myself.

As for the other allegations, I have not been able to find anything with a Google search or a search of the newspaper in question, "The Asbury Park Press" (app.com) or the other newspaper "The Star Ledger" (NJ.com). I even tried searching on line public court documents for Monmouth County and turned up nothing. NJ is not known for easy access to public records without physically going to the Courthouse and even then, it can be nothing but a time killer if you don't know the process.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Craig Browning » 31 Aug 2011, 03:43

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Arouet wrote:what do you mean that Canada revoked his citizenship? That sounds absurd. Canada allows dual citizenship. I couldn't find anything on that using google. Statements like that next to serious accusations make me question all of it!

Yes, I am curious about that myself.

As for the other allegations, I have not been able to find anything with a Google search or a search of the newspaper in question, "The Asbury Park Press" (app.com) or the other newspaper "The Star Ledger" (NJ.com). I even tried searching on line public court documents for Monmouth County and turned up nothing. NJ is not known for easy access to public records without physically going to the Courthouse and even then, it can be nothing but a time killer if you don't know the process.


Aha! You've discovered one of the main reasons why I don't play fetch :lol:


The Canadian thing I found out about several years ago, I might still have the article somewhere in my boxes. As I understand it, because of the social-political problems Randi was causing in the Toronto area, he was essentially deported. I can't give you all the details but I know that he was a Canadian citizen, it could have been a dual citizenship but I'm not certain on any of that. I only know that his involvement with the Communist party during the early to late 60s created problems. He moved to New England and ultimately the New Jersey area where he'd become a big shot in the Magician's market because of his work with Alice Cooper and a few other odds & ends (I think he was tied to Doug Henning on some things as well). Nonetheless, he had a big reputation for hitting on the lads working at Tannens Magic Shop and other such businesses. Following the to-do in Jersey he ended up in Atlanta (I think it was) which is where the four or five teen-age "dancers" came into the picture. I think they were Jamaican or something, they had no legal papers, etc. and so they ended up getting shipped back home before things got too hot. . .

There is an incident, and I have a bad photocopy of the article associated with this particular situation, in which Randi had questionable ties to a noted Art Forger or some such. . . been years since I've read that piece.

There are several accounts of his loosing his temper and decking people including (as I was told) a Nobel Physicist whose research in Quantum Mechanics lent support to plausible paranormal explanation. Others that have crossed paths with him, especially in the latter 70s and early 80's have met more than a few of his "Muscle Boys" encouraging them to change their views on things. . . especially in those cases that dredge up old skeletons such as I've touched upon here. His brutish habits and related escapades have involved some very dirty, highly questionable antics when it comes to his competition, which brings us to Steve Baker who is more than willing to talk to those he trusts, about what happened during a certain Tv shoot and how long he's been fighting with lawyers to get copies of the set footage. . . not what was shot for the show but the wide-angle shot that gives you a full field view of things happening. As I understand things, this was for insurance in case of the stunt failing. I can't go into particulars when it comes to this situation but there is reason to believe that Randi meant serious physical harm on this man, his primary competition in the U.S. when it came to escape artist work.

UNDERSTAND, some of what I've stated here I just happened onto or was shared with me by others who've had reason to question Randi himself as well as the organization and other figureheads in the Skeptic's arena. While I once admired the old coot for his Consumer Awareness stance long ago, discovering things like this about him, some of the games played by his various butt kisses, etc. have forced me to question those that consider themselves the Puritans. History is rife with examples as to how impure such characters tend to be.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby ProfWag » 31 Aug 2011, 09:55

After a whopping 10 minutes of searching, I've found little more than Riley G being the guy behind the accusations. I see no other evidence, other than he and possibly other anti-Randi propoganda, that he was a pedophile. Remember, child molestation is one crime that the police like to bust and if there was any truth to the accusations, there would have been an investigation. Unless someone can post something solid other than "he said she said" sh!t, I consider it a closed issue.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Craig Browning » 01 Sep 2011, 01:54

ProfWag wrote:After a whopping 10 minutes of searching, I've found little more than Riley G being the guy behind the accusations. I see no other evidence, other than he and possibly other anti-Randi propoganda, that he was a pedophile. Remember, child molestation is one crime that the police like to bust and if there was any truth to the accusations, there would have been an investigation. Unless someone can post something solid other than "he said she said" sh!t, I consider it a closed issue.


I'm certain Michael Jackson would smile and agree with you on this if he were around. Concealing this kind of thing has been done for generations by money people and those that hold good standing within certain social-political circles; just look at how many CENTURIES the Vatican has concealed this very same kind of scenario using the same approach; pay off the family, cover the kid's schooling, etc. The whole mind-set on child molestation as we see it today within law enforcement and on the political front is relatively new. Not that there haven't been past issues around it, but that it was one of those things not spoken of "in polite society" and was kept pretty much under this and that rug vs. are present Name & Blame routines.

While I've heard of this Riley G person, I've never had any interactions with him nor do I believe I have any of the materials he's put out. A great deal of what I do have on this front would be seen as "hearsay" in that most is little more than notes taken from persons that were there and went through certain episodes; as I've said several times, just track down guys that worked at Tannens in NYC during the 70s when they were teens. One in particular will give you more than your fill of insight when it comes to this side of Randi's inability to accept the word "NO" when it comes to most anything in life.

I do have photocopies of newspaper and magazine articles that tie to some of the other situations but I'm not going to go digging through all of my stuff to find them just to prove a point in a silly forum argument. The material is there, waiting for that day I finally decide to get off my butt and finish the book I've been slooooowly researching over the past dozen or so years (and only one chapter of it deals with Randi & the whole Skeptic's situation).
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby ProfWag » 01 Sep 2011, 05:03

Craig Browning wrote:
ProfWag wrote:After a whopping 10 minutes of searching, I've found little more than Riley G being the guy behind the accusations. I see no other evidence, other than he and possibly other anti-Randi propoganda, that he was a pedophile. Remember, child molestation is one crime that the police like to bust and if there was any truth to the accusations, there would have been an investigation. Unless someone can post something solid other than "he said she said" sh!t, I consider it a closed issue.


I'm certain Michael Jackson would smile and agree with you on this if he were around.

I never said famous people get jail time, I just believe that police like to make those types of arrests.
Another issue with this that I would consider "common sense," (whatever that may mean) is that his "sex tapes" were played in a court of law and if there was something to them, I doubt that it would have been the last we heard of the situation. I also doubt that Mr. Byrd would have received more than the zero dollar amount he was awarded in that case. At least that's where I see it as someone who neither knows him nor cares about him.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Arouet » 01 Sep 2011, 08:38

I've heard the tapes (winston has them somewhere on his other site). To me, it seems clear that Randi knew that they were being recorded, that he seemed to be trying to get these apparently male prostitutes to incriminate themselves. The tap is clearly on his phone - which if it was surreptitiously put there by police you'd think they'd have gone and actually arrested him.

I don't think Randi's an angel here, but the kids while perhaps under 18 were not children either.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Craig Browning » 01 Sep 2011, 22:22

ProfWag wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:
ProfWag wrote:After a whopping 10 minutes of searching, I've found little more than Riley G being the guy behind the accusations. I see no other evidence, other than he and possibly other anti-Randi propoganda, that he was a pedophile. Remember, child molestation is one crime that the police like to bust and if there was any truth to the accusations, there would have been an investigation. Unless someone can post something solid other than "he said she said" sh!t, I consider it a closed issue.


I'm certain Michael Jackson would smile and agree with you on this if he were around.

I never said famous people get jail time, I just believe that police like to make those types of arrests.
Another issue with this that I would consider "common sense," (whatever that may mean) is that his "sex tapes" were played in a court of law and if there was something to them, I doubt that it would have been the last we heard of the situation. I also doubt that Mr. Byrd would have received more than the zero dollar amount he was awarded in that case. At least that's where I see it as someone who neither knows him nor cares about him.


AS I understand things Mr. Byrd ended up with a college tuition. . . I'm only recalling vague conversations from long ago, but I believe there was an out of court settlement of sorts. . . I may have the incidents mixed up but I know Randi is credited to covering the schooling a more than one lad and not because of his philanthropic attitudes.
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Re: So what's the deal with Randi?

Postby Arouet » 01 Sep 2011, 22:30

IIRC as PW said Byrd "won" his case but was awarded $0 in damages. That means that Randi had to pay nothing. Would have been strange for Randi to settle out of court AFTER he'd received a judgment so favourable to him!
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