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JREF Blackmail Tapes

Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.

Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Scepcop » 02 Aug 2009, 17:05

The Professor wrote:
The Professor wrote:If randi was married and his wife heard these tapes would she think he was working for the Police?
I don't think so!!!!!!


Or if randi's buddy heard these what would he say? The Cop story just doesn't work anymore. We all know that. What the kid is doing is illegal and so he is hiding it from the cops.

The more I listen to these the more "Holes' there are in your defenses of it.

Where is that explanation that randi once said worked ... It doesn't now! :o :shock: :? 8-) 8-)


Just a thought:

If Randi's story about the tapes is true, that he did it under police orders, then why was his explanation of the whole thing taken off the web? I read it back in 2000, so I know that at one point it was there, but I don't remember on which site it was on. But the thing is, why would a truthful explanation be taken down, unless it was an intent to conceal something?

I know that if I gave an honest truthful version of an event in my life and posted it online, I would want it to remain there so that the truth could be known. So why wouldn't Randi leave his side of the story there as well?

It seems a bit suspicious doesn't it?
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Scepcop » 02 Aug 2009, 17:29

ciscop wrote:to be honest
i believe randi has more enemies than friends
believing in the paranormal goes way back to prehistoric ages
to have a guy telling you.. NO! it isnt real and then explaining why it isnt real
gets you enemies

how much people went at tam? if they were 900 they were too many
how many people go to see john edwards every week on his tour? more than 1 thousand

so saying all that..
that randi has more enemies than friends
if those tapes were real (i am not saying is not randi, it does sounds like it is) im sure randi would have been in jail
if those tapes were real somebody would have printed that on papers
i dont know the purporse of those tapes or where do they come from
but well..

if that is all paranormalist have it aint much

i really want somebody to take that million
it would be awesome to live in a world with esp or pk (those are my favorite).. but anything paraormal would be great


It's hard to say whether he has more friends or enemies, because obviously his enemies are going to be more vocal than his friends, and also, many of his enemies are attention seekers as well.

But he definitely has a lot of enemies no doubt.

However, you are wrong in saying that the only reason he has enemies is because he is against the paranormal. Look at the big picture here. Does Michael Shermer, who also debunks the paranormal as a career, have as many enemies as Randi has? No! Why do you think that is? It's not just because of his philosophical position, but his behavior, attitude, personality, actions, and the image he projects.

Plus if you offer a million dollar challenge, you are likely to attract greedy people and attention seekers.

Randi behaves in a vindictive manner. Even some skeptics are turned off by him. He acts abrasive, hateful, condescending, etc. He shows these traits less on TV, cause you have to be on your best behavior of course. But in person and in his newsletters, these traits come out strikingly. It's so apparent, only a fanatic on his side would deny it.

Such a personality turns off a lot of people, rubs them the wrong way and brings out retaliation mode in his opponents. In a sense, he almost makes himself into a villain that people love to hate.

All that has to be taken into account too, besides his philosophical stance on the paranormal.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby highflyertoo » 02 Aug 2009, 20:17

I to agree about Randi's behavior being agressive and sharp,

I have watched Randi talking to Graham Watkins, and Randi is most belittling in his mannerism. No wonder Graham wants to distance himself from James.
Randi was no researcher of the paranormal even though he tried half heartedly.... Shows over.
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby The Professor » 03 Aug 2009, 11:58

The more people that listen to these tapes the more people that distance themselves from something that appears indefensible.

The reasons given for their production sure doesn't hold water.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSED TO TEST FOR A MILLION DOLLARS
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby ciscop » 03 Aug 2009, 16:38

highflyertoo wrote:I to agree about Randi's behavior being agressive and sharp,

I have watched Randi talking to Graham Watkins, and Randi is most belittling in his mannerism. No wonder Graham wants to distance himself from James.


you are talking to yourself!!
you are highflyer!!
Last edited by ciscop on 03 Aug 2009, 17:51, edited 1 time in total.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby SeanRMR » 03 Aug 2009, 17:15

Actually don't think you're right there. Yes there posting styles are simialr but not quite the same and different delusions. I would say they are different people.
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby ciscop » 03 Aug 2009, 17:50

I THINK YOU ARE THE PROFESOR TOO SEANMR
hahaha just kidding


i am not sure
the way he types
and is always an attack to randi

ooh
well i believe you
i could be wrong then
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Scepcop » 03 Aug 2009, 19:45

Azrael wrote:Why woul dhe want answers? What business is it of his? Yours or mine? I could start a topic saying "Why is Professors daughter in state care?" I doubt it would go down well. But its no business of mine why she is.

Dont mistake Koenigs posts for being innocent questions. He asked the same questions on JREF forum and was given answers-he just doesnt like the answers.


Randi is a public figure. People and the tabloids talk about public figures. Under law, that is permissible. He put himself out there, he has to take the heat. Celebrities do not have the same rights as private citizens do, regarding publicity.

The Randi sex tapes exist. They are an objective existence. Do you have objective evidence that the Professor's daughter is in state care? If not, you should not bring up a rumor that insinuates criminal charges against someone here.

The sex tapes are not a rumor. They exist. Objective hard evidence is not the same as your rumor. Can't you see the difference?

Plus, regardless of Randi's private sex life, there is the question of his credibility too. It's possible that he may be lying. He has lied before you know, remember the Sheldrake incident? Therefore, Randi is not above lying. Why do you not consider that as a possibility?

Why do you deem it impossible for Randi to be lying? It is not above him to lie you know.

I cant be bothered breaking down each line of your post but this one I will.

Yes because he is sore he got kicked off MDC challenge. But had he have presented the right protocol and not mouthed off on forums and virtually slandered anyone an everyone this would no thave happened. So he is trying to get back at Randi. He cant take failure.


Even if that's so, he has a right to get back at Randi, as long as it's done legally and without libel, which is protected under Free Speech laws.

Take teh YouTube videos about Dragoncon etc. He has been given answers many times yet he still wont listen. He only wants to hear people confirm his world view. The Randi tapes are a non issue. Its not on going its not relevant to anything no charges were brought. Dave just wants to smear.


Maybe no charges were brought because no one took it to case? Maybe Randi has connections in high places that protect him. Celebrities and the elite can get away with crimes that average people can't, you know. If you have the right connections, it's possible to bend or break the law.

Also, if Randi did nothing wrong, then why won't he answer questions about the sex tapes, and why was his official statement about them taken off the web?

How are they Randi's weakness? Does he hide from it ,has he never mentioned it anywhere? No. He has already stated his side and again I state no charges were brought its a non issue. Koenig believes Randi is a pedophile as it suits his adgenda. yes he gets attention,but he doesnt talk any sense so its worthless attention. This forum is all he has now. MagicCafe wont allow the topic,he is banned from JREF(although topic is still open).


They are a weakness cause he does not wish to discuss it and his image and reputation and career are in jeopardy if the mainstream public knows about it. It's playing with fire. If you don't believe me, why don't you bring it up on the JREF forum and watch your account get banned. Then you'll know that you've touched a huge taboo.

If he's stated his side to it, then show us the link. It got taken down for some reason. Show us his official side to it. Then we can analyze it from there.

Why won't MagicCafe allow the topic of the Randi sex tapes? Under what rationale?

1. Who taped these conversations and why? If Randi taped them, then who ordered him to do it? And why? If it was the police, where is the proof for this?

is it relevant to anything? Were you or Prof personally involved Were your family? If "No " then none of your business.


He is a public figure and people have the right to ask questions about public figures. If you don't know the answer to it, why don't you just admit that you don't know?

Remember the Monica Lewinsky case? It wasn't about Clinton having an affair, it was about him lying under oath. We just want to know if Randi lied about the tapes, and would like to see evidence either way. Why is that so difficult? Why don't you settle this once and for all by providing proof of the truth?

2. How did those tapes get into public hands?

30 years ago who knows. Does it matter> Randi has enemies. Could be anyone.Even Jim.


Well it's a crucial question. Besides, we all love mysteries. At least paranormalists do. Why don't you ask Randi? You are afraid to right, cause you don't want to get banned from the JREF forum.

You said Jim? You mean Jim Callahan? lol I don't think that he was Randi's enemy 30 years ago.

3. Why was Randi expressing interest in getting blow jobs from those boys and giving blow jobs to them in the taped conversations, and also making arrangements to meet up with them?

Already stated why it was part of a police sting. Have you not read this already.


Ok so his explanation was that it was a police sting. Where is the proof to back that up? Which officer was involved? Can you name them so we can interview them? Where is the police case on this? And isn't it illegal for the police to do that?

4. Where is the evidence to back up Randi's claim that the police ordered him to have these conversations to trace boys who were blackmailing him?
5. Where is the evidence that these boys were blackmailing him? I didn't hear any indication in the conversations that Randi was being blackmailed.

Dont know about you but If I made a tape offering sex to minors and the minors were arrested and charged -thus tapes were heard-were I not innocent Id have a lot of explaining to do!!


Ok why don't you call the New Jersey police department and see if they have a case on it or file?
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Azrael » 04 Aug 2009, 02:12

I have linked a thread here that is open on the JREF forum about those tapes ,don't see anyone banned in that thread maybe you could go have a look?
Scepcop do you understand the concept that those who make claims have to provide evidence? Randi isn't claiming anything, he has made his statement perpertators were charged in relation to this case, and Randi wasn't. If you or Professor want to know if he is a pedophile state it clearly in an email to him or a letter,maybe a recorded phone call- that he is, then when a court case begins we will see.

Personally I don't know or care.Innocent until proven guilty. Ive said in another thread who leaked the tapes- David Icke. WHere he got them I dunno,maybe he was in on the blackmail? Im not a Randi follower merely a fan of his work,met the man seems a nice chap.Only people who slag him off are believers of paranormal. And they arent exactly rational people to beging with.

Mayeb Scepcop you are too blind to see Professors game,fair enough. Is it not logical to assume that in 30 years some charges would been brought? Yet no one (Gellar Popov, Shedrake,David Icke etc)has been able to smear Randi.

There is no logic to Professor's posts-he doesn't care whether Randi is a alledged pedophile-he just wants to write it on forums hoping someone will take notice of him. He is an attention seeker.With no paranormal ability.

Lastly Magic Cafe forbid any sort of rational debate about Randi,for reasons that there are believers of paranormal on the forum(another mystery) and the moderators dont like them being upset.
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Jon Saint Germain » 04 Aug 2009, 02:33

Ford Kross can shed some light into how the tapes found their way into the public sphere. I know the story but cannot share it as it is not my tale to tell. It involves someone who worked for the New Jersey police department in a minor capacity as a dispatcher, i think. Ford lives in New Jersey and was in the thick of things when Randi lived there while all this was going on and if anyone is interested in contacting Ford to get his side of the story it could add quite a bit to the missing pieces. Unfortunately, Ford isn't speaking to me these days or I would do the honors.

One thing I can add: Some of the old-timers who knew Randi from the Magic Shops in New Jersey say he was setting himself up to be the next Dunninger. Randi's magic career was on the skids and he had befriended Joe Duninger. At this time he had performed many psychic feats for the newspapers, claiming paranormal abilities. When these newspaper articles were brought up much later he, of course, said he was doing an experiment to prove how easy it was to dupe the press. When Uri Geller came to America, Geller blew everyone out of the water. He made a sensation. Randi, ever an opportunist, wrote Geller offering to be his agent and helping him get his foot in the door. Geller rejected these offers, asking everyone who this old guy was. I've spoken to people who claim Geller showed them these letters when he was trying to find out who was harassing him.

According to the story, Randi was furious at the rejection. This seems true to character if you know him. So he decided to take Geller down. The rest is history.

I know Randi can be resentful. One of his skeptic buddies wanted to buy a mentalism tool from me. I handcraft some exclusive items for professional mentalists. As it turns out, this chap exposes mentalism secrets for his university classes, so I refused to sell to him. Politely. The next thing I know. Randi posted an unflattering picture of me on his website with a biased account of the transaction, which made it look like I took the guy's money and then refused to give him the product, going on to say I was a liar and con artist, and comparing me negatively to Banachek who he said was "one of the good guys," implying I was one of the "bad guys." He has since greatly toned down these remarks for the archived version, I think because Banachek is a friend of mine and may have asked him to do so.

Anyway, someone should contact Kross and get the story about how the tapes found their way into public domain.

JSG
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Scepcop » 04 Aug 2009, 03:01

Do you have an email for Ford Kross? Have you tried googling his name for it?
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Azrael » 04 Aug 2009, 03:43

Jon Saint Germain wrote:Ford Kross can shed some light into how the tapes found their way into the public sphere. I know the story but cannot share it as it is not my tale to tell. It involves someone who worked for the New Jersey police department in a minor capacity as a dispatcher, i think. Ford lives in New Jersey and was in the thick of things when Randi lived there while all this was going on and if anyone is interested in contacting Ford to get his side of the story it could add quite a bit to the missing pieces. Unfortunately, Ford isn't speaking to me these days or I would do the honors.

One thing I can add: Some of the old-timers who knew Randi from the Magic Shops in New Jersey say he was setting himself up to be the next Dunninger. Randi's magic career was on the skids and he had befriended Joe Duninger. {/quote]
Cant beat hearsay!!
{quote] At this time he had performed many psychic feats for the newspapers, claiming paranormal abilities. When these newspaper articles were brought up much later he, of course, said he was doing an experiment to prove how easy it was to dupe the press.

You've got a link Iassume,first Ive ever heard of this. He used to "fake psychic" tricks/mentalism,this is what eventually led him into skepticism.
When Uri Geller came to America, Geller blew everyone out of the water. He made a sensation. Randi, ever an opportunist, wrote Geller offering to be his agent and helping him get his foot in the door. Geller rejected these offers, asking everyone who this old guy was. I've spoken to people who claim Geller showed them these letters when he was trying to find out who was harassing him.

Of course Geller being the truthful legitimate psychic that he is wouldn't be lying?

According to the story, Randi was furious at the rejection. This seems true to character if you know him. So he decided to take Geller down. The rest is history.

Bolded part is rather telling.Can find zero reference to this anywhere online,perhaps you have a source.

I know Randi can be resentful. One of his skeptic buddies wanted to buy a mentalism tool from me. I handcraft some exclusive items for professional mentalists. As it turns out, this chap exposes mentalism secrets for his university classes, so I refused to sell to him. Politely. The next thing I know. Randi posted an unflattering picture of me on his website with a biased account of the transaction, which made it look like I took the guy's money and then refused to give him the product, going on to say I was a liar and con artist, and comparing me negatively to Banachek who he said was "one of the good guys," implying I was one of the "bad guys." He has since greatly toned down these remarks for the archived version, I think because Banachek is a friend of mine and may have asked him to do so.

Point and relevance being?

Anyway, someone should contact Kross and get the story about how the tapes found their way into public domain.
JSG


David Icke.
Anyway out of all that post what it boils down to is a load of hearsay from Uri Gellar and old magicians-who are a bitter jealous lot mostly anyway. Well done JSG you've exceeded Professor's inanity.
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Jon Saint Germain » 04 Aug 2009, 04:18

Well, whoever you are (hiding behind a pseudonym :D ):

The newspaper articles claiming paranormal powers are reproduced--along with Randi's explanation--in his book FLIM FLAM. Or perhaps THE TRUTH ABOUT URI GELLER. I don't do internet links; internet sources are unreliable.

As for the rest, I was up front about my sources.

I do so dislike these internet discussions. In the old days of person-to-person discussion, wormy little weasels like you would never dare speak to another man in this manner, in person. You would be wedgied until you were bisected. :twisted:

Twenty-five years ago I was right in the middle of this discussion. I see nothing has changed. Both sides still at each other throats. Have fun!

JSG
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Scepcop » 04 Aug 2009, 04:32

Why bring David Icke into this? He has no beef with Randi and does not even talk about Randi publicly.

How would a former English sports caster have access to those Randi tapes in New Jersey?
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Re: JREF Blackmail Tapes

Postby Azrael » 04 Aug 2009, 05:11

Jon Saint Germain wrote:Well, whoever you are (hiding behind a pseudonym :D ):

The newspaper articles claiming paranormal powers are reproduced--along with Randi's explanation--in his book FLIM FLAM. Or perhaps THE TRUTH ABOUT URI GELLER. I don't do internet links; internet sources are unreliable.

As for the rest, I was up front about my sources.

I do so dislike these internet discussions. In the old days of person-to-person discussion, wormy little weasels like you would never dare speak to another man in this manner, in person. You would be wedgied until you were bisected. :twisted:

Twenty-five years ago I was right in the middle of this discussion. I see nothing has changed. Both sides still at each other throats. Have fun!

JSG


PM me you can have all my personal info. Then we can arrange to meet up at a convention maybe and have a person to person chat.
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