View Active Topics          Latest 100 Topics          View Your Posts          Switch to Mobile

Herbal Doctor Arrested

Discussions about Holistic Health and Alternative Medicine.

Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby ProfWag » 09 Oct 2009, 20:48

This is the kind of stuff that burns my behind:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33234411/ns ... ?GT1=43001
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54






Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby NinjaPuppy » 09 Oct 2009, 22:11

IMO, the article is rather ambiguous with the details-

Article wrote:Others who tried Daniel's nostrums were Minna Shakespeare, who had seen Daniel on the TV show in December 2002. The 49-year-old Hanover, Mass., resident contacted Daniel shortly thereafter and was told by the doctor to stop her chemotherapy because it didn't work, according to an affidavit filed by the Food and Drug Administration.

She stopped chemotherapy and paid Daniel about $13,000 for the cancer treatment. When Shakespeare felt the new treatment wasn't working, she claims Daniel told her to go back on chemotherapy as well as continue the herbal solution, court documents show.


Article wrote:Prosecutors brought fraud charges Thursday against a family doctor accused of promising terminally ill cancer patients in their darkest hours that they would be cured with an herbal treatment....In court documents, authorities contend Daniel took advantage of patients who desperately sought alternative measures after enduring draining rounds of chemotherapy and radiation.

The article is not really clear as to the actual medical status of the patients at time of contact. If modern medical science has been exhausted and the person has reached the point where there is nothing known to help, I can see family members wanting to give something else a try before you call in Hospice or totally give up. If they are so inclined to believe in the power of prayer, then go for it. If all modern medical treatments have been tried and failed, an herbal drink isn't going to be the reason for death. (Disclaimer: depending on the herbs of course as there are many deadly ones available)

It seems to me that the 'promise of a cure' is what is in question here. That is something that will need to be decided in a Court of Law and not debated in the media.

For the record, I am all for traditional modern medicine being the first line of treatment and I highly doubt that I would resort to any sort of non-traditional medicine once all traditional modern medical options were exhausted unless it was being properly tested and they needed human lab rats. Even then, it would have to be really, really accepted by the AMA.
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby ProfWag » 09 Oct 2009, 22:31

Uhhh, I'm not sure if you can call this ambiguous, but maybe...

"Patient deaths
In all, federal prosecutors said Daniel siphoned about $1.1 million from 55 families between 2001 and 2004. At least six patients ranging in age from 4 to 69 died within seven months after seeing Daniel.

"This is an example of a doctor who is preying upon the most vulnerable people in our society," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Johns. "These patients were told they were being cured, but they were being eaten alive by cancer."
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby NinjaPuppy » 09 Oct 2009, 23:36

ProfWag wrote:Uhhh, I'm not sure if you can call this ambiguous, but maybe...

"Patient deaths
In all, federal prosecutors said Daniel siphoned about $1.1 million from 55 families between 2001 and 2004. At least six patients ranging in age from 4 to 69 died within seven months after seeing Daniel.

"This is an example of a doctor who is preying upon the most vulnerable people in our society," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Johns. "These patients were told they were being cured, but they were being eaten alive by cancer."


Yes, IMO, that is downright criminal. However, it leaves out any mention of what stage the patient was at at time of first contact with this quack. It fails to mention if that seven month time period could have been extended if not on her course of treatment and in a more traditional modern treatment.
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby NinjaPuppy » 10 Oct 2009, 00:41

Believe me, Profwag, I am not arguing the fact that this doctor is of questionable character and what seems like poor professional ability/conduct as set forth by the profession. There was enough 'meat and potatoes' information in that article to draw a personal conclusion. However, you can draw nothing but a personal conclusion from that article.

What I would like to point out is that IF that article was written in a positive spin, with any mention of an herbal potion that might help cure cancer...
skeptics all over the world would be asking for facts, figures, details, court transcripts, medical records, scientific studies, proof, AMA journal articles etc. to back this up.

Granted, I would hope that common sense would prevail in such a circumstance but that doesn't seem to be the case here according to what this reporter is saying. I am not asking that a negative (herbal potions can't cure cancer) be proven here. I am simply trying to dig through the veiled attitude against prayer and herbs as a possible aid in addition to acceptable modern medical treatment and/or one last thing before medical science has exhausted every possibility and death is eminent.
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby ciscop » 10 Oct 2009, 03:29

yep..
the problem here
is that pretty much ANY herbal doctor
should add the witch to his title since all they do is selling a believe in magic
i would like to see Witchdoctors everywhere

he is a 21century snake oil salesman
a bullshit artist
what a shame

my aunt got quite sick and ended up on the hospital
because of one of them
i am not sure of the medical term for it on english
but pretty much she got rocks on her stomach
instead of going to a REAL doctor.. she was seeing this herbal doctor/homeopath for a while
who kept saying her stones were diminishing because of a tea he was selling her
time kept passing until she end up on the hospital with an emergency surgery because she got quite bad

what a bunch of lowlives.. those guys make me sick and
them and the psychics are the things that botter me the most
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
User avatar
ciscop
 
Posts: 1423
Joined: 22 Jul 2009, 12:04

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby brett » 10 Oct 2009, 03:50

as far as i know - here in the UK it is illegal for ANY herbalist to proscribe for , or herbal remedy to claim to cure - cancer

however it MAY be that some herbal supplements MAY have some effect on the condition - we should not dismiss this possibility TOTALY in SOME cases ( granted very rare ones indeed ) - but people DO need to be wary of a lot of these things - to the exclusion of proper medical advice **

but as i know to my cost ( and my late wife 's ) there is as yet NO real cure for many of the cancers prevalent in society - IF ( big if ) they are caught early enough there is a chance in some cases , but once they metastasize ( eg spread to other organs ) - basically one is SCREWED !!

** personally if i get it - one thing is for sure - they will NOT be filling me with poisonous drugs or zapping me with radiation - i will take my chances and when its my time - well its my time - and i want to pass with dignity and on my OWN terms - as i do not now fear death - having seen and experienced what i have whilst researching the paranormal and during experiences in the fire service ( see the personal experiences section ) - and i also have a shining example of this attitude to follow as my late wife refused chemo and i admire her greatly , and respect immensely her decision - even though i miss her like hell :(

some will call me mad to take this attitude - but remember always it's YOUR body and YOUR life - how you choose to treat it or let it BE treated is up to you , yours - NO ONE ELSES !! - we all gonna go some time , BUT you WON'T go before your time , trust me on this - we ALL have a day to go , and if it ain't that day .............................................. ;)

and for the skeptics this : IF there is an afterlife or continuance in some form - all well and good , if not , well it will be like going to sleep ,and NOT waking up in the morning with all the aches and pains that plague us ( unless VERY lucky ) in later life - so what's to worry about ??
LIFE - just filling the bits between birth, death and taxes
User avatar
brett
 
Posts: 436
Joined: 06 Aug 2009, 22:23
Location: Plymouth UK

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby ciscop » 10 Oct 2009, 09:00

brett wrote:as far as i know - here in the UK it is illegal for ANY herbalist to proscribe for , or herbal remedy to claim to cure - cancer

however it MAY be that some herbal supplements MAY have some effect on the condition - we should not dismiss this possibility TOTALY in SOME cases ( granted very rare ones indeed ) - but people DO need to be wary of a lot of these things - to the exclusion of proper medical advice **

but as i know to my cost ( and my late wife 's ) there is as yet NO real cure for many of the cancers prevalent in society - IF ( big if ) they are caught early enough there is a chance in some cases , but once they metastasize ( eg spread to other organs ) - basically one is SCREWED !!

** personally if i get it - one thing is for sure - they will NOT be filling me with poisonous drugs or zapping me with radiation - i will take my chances and when its my time - well its my time - and i want to pass with dignity and on my OWN terms - as i do not now fear death - having seen and experienced what i have whilst researching the paranormal and during experiences in the fire service ( see the personal experiences section ) - and i also have a shining example of this attitude to follow as my late wife refused chemo and i admire her greatly , and respect immensely her decision - even though i miss her like hell :(

some will call me mad to take this attitude - but remember always it's YOUR body and YOUR life - how you choose to treat it or let it BE treated is up to you , yours - NO ONE ELSES !! - we all gonna go some time , BUT you WON'T go before your time , trust me on this - we ALL have a day to go , and if it ain't that day .............................................. ;)

and for the skeptics this : IF there is an afterlife or continuance in some form - all well and good , if not , well it will be like going to sleep ,and NOT waking up in the morning with all the aches and pains that plague us ( unless VERY lucky ) in later life - so what's to worry about ??



we ALL have a day to go , and if it ain't that day


niceee!!
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
User avatar
ciscop
 
Posts: 1423
Joined: 22 Jul 2009, 12:04

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby brett » 10 Oct 2009, 23:00

seen it time and time again csicop - people getting out of wrecks and fires - that by rights should have taken them , AND i have seen the converse too , where we have stood there asking HOW did that finish them ?? - so yea i am a STRONG believer in that statement , don't ask me to explain the logic behind some of these things - they just happen , and whilst i am not a religious type , there does seem to be some sort of "fate" - reason or even may be the reaper was on holiday - whatever :?

of course the down side to this IS if it IS your day to go - ain't s**t you can do about it - sobering thought eh ?? ;)
LIFE - just filling the bits between birth, death and taxes
User avatar
brett
 
Posts: 436
Joined: 06 Aug 2009, 22:23
Location: Plymouth UK

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby NinjaPuppy » 10 Oct 2009, 23:24

I also believe that we have some sort of 'expiration date' stamped on our butts. :lol: It is probably some throw back to my early religious teachings that our fate/destiny is determined by 'God' long before we are born.

Since then, my mindset has morphed quite a bit and so have my beliefs on religion but the words, "when your time is up, it's up, and there is nothing you can do about it" still seems to ring true.
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby ProfessorX » 10 Oct 2009, 23:59

What's interesting to me is how society accepts the validity of lethal (literally) medical treatment and will take that as the first and often only option, primarily because that form of treatment has the imprimatur of Western Medicine.

Think about it - if a "holistic healer" said that the best way to heal cancer is to subject oneself to toxic radiation and deliberately try to kill off parts of the body without killing oneself in the process, some people would be calling for such mad scientist quacks to be tossed into jail.

And just generally, think of all the pharmaceutical "medicines" that may or may not work for a given patient, and that have a laundry list of dangerous known side-effects, that are prescribed like candy to unwitting patients who presume the safety and effectiveness of such meds because they are FDA approved and were prescribed by a "real" doctor.

And, to make it even more ludicrous, the hegemony of allopathic ideology has convinced most people that so called "alternative" medicines like herbs must be treated as if they were toxic, harmful, or useless, even if such medicines or treatments (like accupuncture) have been used successfully and safely by non-western cultures for centuries.
-
-
-
ProfessorX
 
Posts: 24
Joined: 13 Sep 2009, 09:36

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby brett » 11 Oct 2009, 02:14

yep got to agree with you there prof X - at the end of the day when you think about it - none of these treatments really "cure" cancer - once it has "triggered" in a body . even though you may do some good towards killing off the cells - the fact remains that it can and frequently does come back unfortunately - but as i have said what hacks me off is the amount of "bullying" that patents get to HAVE these treatments ( chemo and rad ) - it seems if one has a mind and say NO i am NOT letting you subject me to these things - the docs get all upset , like you are doubting their competence - well that's worth doing as only recently a mother of 5 died when a consultant ( not just a ordinary doc screwed up ) - story here :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... rdose.html

and once the stuff is in your bloodstream - its too late to change your mind

and not only chemo - ordinary drugs such as the latest craze for "anti-lipids" ??? ( cholesterol lowering ) - what long term effects will these have ?? - yet millions are be prescribed - and my doc told me that some people are naturally prone to high cholesterol and it is nothing to do with what you eat - so all those warnings on packets mean not a lot to me :D - well if you gonna die anyways sometime - why be bloody miserable eating lentils and lettuce in the mean time eh ??

we at the end of the day place our lives "literally" in their hands - as to how safe those hands are of course begs questioning - and one should never be afraid to question ones health professional - a good question when being prescribed drugs is " if YOU had to - would you take these then doc ?? " - funny how quiet they go sometimes ;)
LIFE - just filling the bits between birth, death and taxes
User avatar
brett
 
Posts: 436
Joined: 06 Aug 2009, 22:23
Location: Plymouth UK

Re: Herbal Doctor Arrested

Postby NinjaPuppy » 11 Oct 2009, 02:29

Yes, the over-prescribing of many of today's prescription pills can be seen as a problem. In some cases, the manufacturers of these pills will provide perks to the docs that prescribe them.

I personally have had an ongoing battle with my soon to be ex-doctor who insists I take Lipitor. Now mind you, he wanted to prescribe Lipitor for me after a CBC that showed that my cholesterol was in a perfectly acceptable range but was on the high end of acceptable. Six months later, he did another CBC and INSISTED that I start Lipitor again and when I asked him what the new count was, he looked it up (obviously didn't bother before his little speech) on my chart and gave me the numbers. I pointed out to him that without the pills I lowered my cholesterol 40 points in six months and that the new numbers were in the perfectly acceptable range. What a crock! This was also after a full cardio test and whatever you call it test to see if I had plaque build up in my arteries, which were perfectly clear. He claimed it was for preventative measures. Preventative measures my Aunt Fannie! They put my dad on Lipitor after a triple by-pass and it nearly killed him due to the side effects.
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44


Return to Holistic Health / Alternative Medicine

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron