Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

[SydneyPSIder]

There are papers galore being cited in the the previous posts, particularly the Japanese study previously -- including critiques and demonstrations of researcher bias in interpreting 'data' (which is clearly manipulable) and indeed the vested interest connections of the researchers themselves which are frequently if not universally not disclosed.

I'm not sure why a paper cited or analysed on an anti-vax site isn't a paper to you, Arouet?

Let's face it, there are going to be relatively few doctors and researchers out there who are avowedly anti-vax, not because vaccines don't cause harm, but because mass public vaccination is a reputational mainstay of the profession and a major bread and butter item. How do you convince someone else in the medical profession to give you funding to demonstrate that all the other studies are wrong and that the med school curriculum is wrong and that vaxes are harmful and cause SIDS and ASD and ADHD and other brain damage and asthma and allergies for a percentage of children -- it's career suicide. The profession will hate you, the journals will hate you, the drug companies will hate you (and will spend a lot of money trying to smear you) and the public health officials will hate you. There are paediatricians and other doctors speaking out about it, already cited above, like Lawrence Palevsky, but as soon as they say something or get cited, you, Arouet, say it's not acceptable because they are inevitably quoted on an anti-vax site -- that should go with the territory, surely?

[SydneyPSIder]

Here's some papers for you which study and question the safety of thimerosal, Arouet:

1.Hornig M, Chian D, Lipkin WI. Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse strain dependent. Mol Psychiatry. 2004 Sep;9(9):833-45
2. Burbacher TM, Shen DD, Liberato N, Grant KS, Cernichiari E, Clarckson T. Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2005/7712/7712.pdf
3. Waly M, Olteanu H, Banerjee R, Choi SW, Mason JB, Parker BS, Sukumar S, Shim S, Sharma A, Benzecry JM, Power-Charnitsky VA, Deth RC. Activation of methionine synthase by insulin-like growth factor-1 and dopamine: a target for neurodevelopmental toxins and thimerosal. Mol Psychiatry. 2004 Apr;9(4):358-70.
4. James SJ, Slikker W 3rd, Melnyk S, New E, Pogribna M, Jernigan S. Thimerosal neurotoxicity is associated with glutathione depletion: protection with glutathione precursors. Neurotoxicology. 2005 Jan;26(1):1-8.
5. Geier DA, Geier MR. A comparative evaluation of the effects of MMR immunization and mercury doses from thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines on the population prevalence of autism.Med Sci Monit. 2004 Mar;10(3):PI33-9.
6. Geier D, Geier MR. Neurodevelopmental disorders following thimerosal-containing childhood immunizations: a follow-up analysis. Int J Toxicol. 2004 Nov-Dec;23(6):369-76.
7. Geier DA, Geier MR. A two-phased population epidemiological study of the safety of thimerosal-containing vaccines: a follow-up analysis. Med Sci Monit. 2005 Mar 24;11(4):CR160-170
8. Blaxill MF, L Redwood L, and Bernard S.Thimerosal and autism? A plausible hypothesis that should not be dismissed. Medical Hypotheses; 62: 788-794, 2004.
9. Humphrey ML, Cole MP, Pendergrass JC, Kiningham KK. Mitochondrial Mediated Thimerosal-Induced Apoptosis in a Human Neuroblastoma Cell Line (SK-N-SH). Neurotoxicology. 2005 Apr 30; (Epub ahead of print)
10. Parran DK, Barker A, Ehrich M. Effects of Thimerosal on NGF signal transduction and cell death in neuroblastoma cells Toxicol Sci. 2005 Apr 20; (Epub ahead of print)
11. Havarinasab S, Haggqvist B, Bjorn E, Pollard KM, Hultman P. Immunosuppressive and autoimmune effects of thimerosal in mice. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2005 Apr 15;204(2):109-21.
12. Ueha-Ishibashi T, Tatsuishi T, Iwase K, Nakao H, Umebayashi C, Nishizaki Y, Nishimura Y, Oyama Y, Hirama S, Okano Y. Property of thimerosal-induced decrease in cellular content of glutathione in rat thymocytes: a flow cytometric study with 5-chloromethylfluorescein diacetate.Toxicol In Vitro. 2004 Oct;18(5):563-9

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/20110314 ... rkYazbakFE
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/20110328 ... HOYazbakFE
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/20110405 ... ceYazbakFE

Once you get through that lot, let me know what you conclude. You would need access to a highly subscribed med library to get the articles, of course.

[Arouet]

Lot of stuff to read going on in this thread - I'm interested in continuing down this road, but on the understanding that this is going to be a slow burn type of discussion. I have three kids under 7 so I have a legitimate interest in making sure they are safe. Been crazy busy lately and when I want to be distracted I need brain breaks rather than brain attacks!


But I am interested in your take on that email in exhibit 3 - am I missing something with regard to it? I'll have to re-read the paper, but I'm not seeing how it demonstrates they falsified data. I don't think it clearly says that. I'm not sure what it indicates, frankly.

[NinjaPuppy]

[Arouet]

I agree that the vaccine situation is not like running with scissors. The difference is, the vaccine works on populations more than it works on individuals. If you vaccinate one kid its not going to do much. The key is vaccinating enough that you establish herd immunity. Now, what that does mean is that there is a trade off. We trade off the people who are going to get the flu with the people who are going to have negative side effects from the vaccine. These will likely be different people. It certainly sucks for the person who gets the side effect from the flu, but the issue (as syndney ponted out above) is that overall we want the less serious result on the populaton as a whole.

[NinjaPuppy]

[SydneyPSIder]

[NinjaPuppy]

[SydneyPSIder]

The mumps apparently is pretty harmless. Once again, in the case of measles, you are gambling on whether the possible harm caused by the vaccine outweighs the possible harm from the disease. The multiple antigen jabs seem particularly problematic. It's now hard to get single jabs, and it's apparently not good to have lots of single jabs either -- so you can wait a couple of years for the child's immune system to develop (say starting at aged 2 at the earliest) rather than hitting them with repeat boosters etc at 2 and 4 months, and the rest of the schedule under 2 years of age. The untested 'belief' that they are all completely safe at any age does not seem to be borne out by the evidence.

[Arouet]

[NinjaPuppy]

[SydneyPSIder]

[NinjaPuppy]

[Arouet]

[SydneyPSIder]