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Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Sep 2012, 08:53

Arouet wrote:In fairness, I think he just meant that autism is also very serious and should be considered nearly as bad as death- at least from the point of view of evaluating whether the vaccines have acceptable risk.

Unfortunately life has become an acceptable risk. ;)
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Sep 2012, 09:29

Look what I found while reading my Yahoo news: http://gma.yahoo.com/mystery-illness-le ... ealth.html

For those of you who don't care to read the article-
Thinking back to the soccer game, Tammy Skriver often wonders if something triggered her daughter's decline, which coincided with a new drug for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and some school vaccinations.
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 09:45

You have my sincerst sympathies, NP. I am trying to locate some research on genetic markers, will send on if I can find. There are websites out there though with information, including the Dr Mercola site. I have seen plenty of info online about DPT as well.

Interestingly, the Australian govt has just started a 'National Disability Insurance Scheme' which will need to be funded, in order to help parents/carers and sufferers of disabilities throughout their lifespan.
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 13:20

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/09/11/children-vaccine-reactions.aspx

Find a Compassionate Doctor to Help You Prevent Vaccine Injuries

On NVIC's Vaccine Freedom Wall at NVIC.org, mothers are posting descriptions of how they have been threatened and punished with dismissal from pediatric practices when they try to protect their children from vaccine reactions.

Here is one Mom's story:

"After receiving her first vaccines, including DPT, my daughter began to have violent seizures, which continued but lessened over the next year. On many occasions, pediatricians have attempted to bully me into allowing more vaccinations for her. Telling them about her seizures, I refuse and tell each of them 'unless you will personally guarantee, in writing, that there will be no adverse reactions so I can sue you if there are, then I won't do it.' Not a single doctor has taken me up on my offer," she said.

"My daughter is now diagnosed with autism. After we moved, we had to get another doctor and, after a year when I wouldn't change my mind about more vaccines, he told me he wouldn't be our doctor anymore. I went to another doctor, who wouldn't even take us into his practice. We finally found someone who understands. She is an awesome pediatrician! So something good came of it in the end," she said.

Contact Governor Jerry Brown and Make Your Voice Heard

If Governor Jerry Brown signs AB2109 into law, it will take effect on Jan. 1, 2014. If you want to tell Governor Brown what you think about AB2109, sign up for NVIC's Advocacy Portal and be put in touch with him with the touch of your iPhone screen or click of a computer mouse.

Watch the Aug. 24 Senate floor debate on AB2109 here. (scroll in to 4 hours, 20 minutes, 27 seconds)

Read the text of A2109 here.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/05/health-liberty-and-forced-vaccination.aspx

http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/an-interview-with-dr-lawrence-palevsky-by-dr-joseph-mercola/ -- the transcript of this interview makes very interesting reading re safety issues and the paternalism of modern medicine (for profit) as well as a host of other issues -- by a specialist pediatrician using the ordinary common sense God gave him.

http://www.healing-arts.org/children/mercury_in_vaccines_autism_research/CDC_vaccinesafetyinformation.htm - public health officials deliberately not doing health studies so as not to 'scare the public away'

http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/the-pertussis-vaccine-lists-autism-and-sudden-infant-death-syndrome-as-serious-adverse-events-on-the-package-insert/

Speaking of pseudoscience -- http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/why-is-autism-increasing-i-dunno-says-culpable-cdc-anything-but-vaccine-adverse-reactions/
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby Arouet » 22 Sep 2012, 13:44

Any of those links actual scientific studies?
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 13:52

Arouet wrote:Any of those links actual scientific studies?

First, why not follow them, peruse them and find out.

Second, you don't even seem to understand the postmodern construction of epistemology -- that you can choose, for instance, to do NO studies in an area quite deliberately, and then report to the public 'there is no science that says this is possible'; or you can simply bias studies and hide real effects in a botched methodology, or simply fabricate the statistics and hide adverse data. Drug companies have been demonstrated lately to tend to the latter (Vioxx, Celebrex, etc, and numerous others, perhaps ALL new drugs), public health officials do the former, and they also simply fail to do any research at all -- after all, it's cheaper that way. Note just about all drug trials are funded by big pharma, and the FDA just accepts their findings. Then the drugs get 'tested' on the mainstream population to see how many people they can kill and get away with it and get their used car salesmen doctors to deny it and hide it and keep making the sales. Rough rule of thumb for big pharma: if you kill below 5% of your patients with your drug, you will probably get away with it for quite some time, possibly forever, as the deaths will be ascribed to something else, or the general ill health of the patient.

But the articles DO reference studies, yes. Why don't you read the articles and look for them like a game of Where's Wally, you might become very good at it...

One last one: http://www.heartmdinstitute.com/health-concerns/immune-system/danger-excessive-vaccination-during-brain-development -- this one has 175 references to scientific papers!!!!! Dr Russell L. Blaylock.
Last edited by SydneyPSIder on 22 Sep 2012, 19:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 14:46

NinjaPuppy wrote:Look what I found while reading my Yahoo news: http://gma.yahoo.com/mystery-illness-le ... ealth.html

For those of you who don't care to read the article-
Thinking back to the soccer game, Tammy Skriver often wonders if something triggered her daughter's decline, which coincided with a new drug for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and some school vaccinations.

.
.
.

"I asked [the doctors], 'Could it be that?' But they said it's unrelated," she said.


Of course they did...
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Sep 2012, 19:31

Arouet wrote:Any of those links actual scientific studies?

Well, that's the sad part of this entire conversation. What is part of a scientific study is that autism, ADD, ADHD and other serious problems are increasing and there is still no definitive answer.

The one place that parents can get some answers and some common sense survival skills to deal with this is from parents who have gone through it themselves. The best way that I can explain it is to use what I call, "Buffett psychology" - "Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it".

From the song "Manana" by Jimmy Buffett
Please don’t say manana if you don’t mean it
I have heard those words for so very long
Don’t try to describe the ocean if you’ve never seen it
Don’t ever forget that you just may wind up being wrong


Talk about Occam's Razor. Here is a perfect example. Get your baby a vaccination, watch them convulse in their crib for a few days with every series of shots and then be told it's not related and there is no proof or studies to explain why.
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby Arouet » 22 Sep 2012, 19:59

NinjaPuppy wrote:Well, that's the sad part of this entire conversation. What is part of a scientific study is that autism, ADD, ADHD and other serious problems are increasing and there is still no definitive answer.


It's not that simple. One big factor in the stats is how these conditions are diagnosed and detected, not to mention how they are labelled. Despite our rude friend above the link between autism and vaccines has been studied. I'll dig up some studies over the next few days to show what I mean.

The one place that parents can get some answers and some common sense survival skills to deal with this is from parents who have gone through it themselves. The best way that I can explain it is to use what I call, "Buffett psychology" - "Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it".


I have a lot of sympathy for what you've gone through with your child, and I agree that you can probably get some pretty good skills for raising an autistic child from other parents who have such children. Problem is, regarding the question of whether the condition came from vaccines, just going through it with your child isn't a particularly good way to come to a reliable conclusion. Common sense can often work against you in this type of problem.

Talk about Occam's Razor. Here is a perfect example. Get your baby a vaccination, watch them convulse in their crib for a few days with every series of shots and then be told it's not related and there is no proof or studies to explain why.


Again, horrible to go through. And there is no question that some children have bad side effects from vaccines. But whether that is linked to autism is a different question. And it has been studied, from a variety of angles. And the causes of autism are not currently fully understood, which as a father of three I can imagine would be maddening to any parent. My kids are 6 so I'm still not out of the woods in terms of knowing for certain whether any of them will be autistic. (my six year old has a habit of not looking me in the eye when I discipline him, I know that avoiding eye contact is a symptom of autism and I'm always paranoid that his not looking at me is a symptom - so I'll say to him: look me in the eye! I know its irrational, that really, he doesn''t want to face me when I'm upset with him, but still that thought goes through my head each time!)

Ninja, this is a deeply personal topic for you I know, and I'm sure you've looked into some of this stuff before. I'm willing to go down this road but want to make sure you're comfortable with it and will find it useful to you. If its too hard emotionally we can let this topic go...

This is a big topic.
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 22:49

The fact that only a small % of children get seriously injured has given the medical fraternity a free pass on this for too long. Arouet can look up his 'studies' and present them, but there is no such thing as a 'scientific' study in this area if it is paid for by big pharma or by health officials who have a vested interest in keeping the system going for whatever reason -- profits, kickbacks, work and job creation, brainwashing, whatever. I've already seen criticisms of many study methodologies where they restrict follow-up to a couple of weeks or use exlusionary criteria to their advantage in denying a statistical association.

It's a small % not counting the high and increasing rate of asthma and allergies, the now 1 in 70 boys getting ASP (used to be 1 in 100,000 once upon a time), and the rising rates of ADHD and SIDS as the number of jabs and shots of antigen goes up every year. Researchers are trying to blame new allergens in the environment and all kinds of crap, anything but vaccines.
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby Arouet » 22 Sep 2012, 23:11

You have to be careful, though, Syndney against just viewing the people who support your view as unbiased and the people who don't support your view as biased. The fact is, there is bias everywhere. We all have biases, its part of being human. The trick is - as you've identified - to use sound methodology to try and get some answers.

So why don't we see if we can find some studies that seem sound (please keep in mind that I'm a layperson, with no scientific background other than what I've picked up by looking into these topics) and we can discuss those.
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Sep 2012, 07:02

Yes Arouet, this is a big topic. There are many views to it as well and I've been around this topic enough to say that I also understand all the different views. The first thing that everyone needs to understand is that there are degrees or levels associated with all of these neurological problems and that just as in life, no two children are exactly the same. The symptoms don't have any set pattern nor are they easy to diagnose. Finding it early doesn't help the child at all. Acceptance does help however.

As far as big pharma wanting to keep things as they are, it's the lesser of two evils. Now they're saying there may be some gene thing that may be the root cause. What does a parent do? You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Either way it's a risk. We know for a fact that the diseases that the vaccines prevent are real and they still exist. We know that they can be killers or cause other serious permanent problems if they start to make a grand come back.

I personally survived just about every one of those child killer diseases starting at the age of 6 months and got whooping cough which is the P part of the DPT vaccination. Back then an infant with whooping cough usually didn't survive and about the only thing they could do was give morphine which would either let the baby rest or make the passing easier on the parents. It left me with chronic breathing problems that required constant attention until I was about 7 years old. I've had mumps, measles, German measles, chicken pox, various flu as well as the dreaded Hong Kong flu back in like the 60s, blood poisoning (tetanus) and the list goes on and on. One thing that I didn't get was polio because they had an app for that. ;) Thank you Jonas Salk.

It's because of these vaccines that all of the above diseases are no longer on every child's bucket list. You hardly hear about them let alone find someone with a small child that has them today.

Arouet wrote:Ninja, this is a deeply personal topic for you I know, and I'm sure you've looked into some of this stuff before. I'm willing to go down this road but want to make sure you're comfortable with it and will find it useful to you. If its too hard emotionally we can let this topic go...

That's the problem, we as human beings can't let this topic go. Too many problems get swept under the rug because of apathy or political correctness. These things make people uncomfortable. What we need is education about the possible dangers vs. the dangers of the opposite side. It's a conundrum for sure.

As far as my own personal comfort level, I have to tell you that this morning I cried. I haven't done that in a very long time. Just like 9/11, it brings back memories and emotions that I had buried very long ago. I have this great way of dwelling on the good, doing what needs to be done at the time and moving forward. I recall rocking my daughter in my arms when I first suspected that something wasn't quite right with her and whispering to her, "when you grow up marry a rich guy, you're gonna need it". Needless to say, just like every child out there, she didn't listen to her mother. ;) Fortunately for her, I did listen to my mother and her father has been able to afford all the necessary funding. His biggest fear is what is going to happen to her when we are gone. There's plenty of money but she can't grasp the concept of a budget or planned spending. Heck that's really no big deal as it seems there are millions of Americans with the same problem.

Meanwhile we have come to a point where it's been decided to let her fall flat on her ass in the hopes that she is able to take something from the losses and learn from it. It's not easy to watch her lose her home with two small babies and go through the daily crying phone calls every time someone from the bank calls and she can't understand what they're telling her. It's also not easy to think that somewhere down the line I will wind up raising small children again. I am SO NOT a kid person.
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby Arouet » 23 Sep 2012, 14:00

Here's a recent study in Japan exploring any link between autism and MMR vaccine, done by a university not a pharmaceutical company.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22521285
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby SydneyPSIder » 23 Sep 2012, 15:53

Thanks for that insight, NP, I don't want to raise doubts for the sake of a crusade, but there are many anecdotal stories like yours where the problems set in after a jab. I feel that for extreme diseases like whooping cough and polio, yes, the risk of a jab is justified, but there should not be as many being given as there are for a range of much less threatening diseases -- particularly not the Hep B jab given at the first moment after childbirth for no reason that makes sense. Dr Palevsky questions this also in one of the links above. Early successes with important vaccines seemed to go to big pharma's head. And when you get a jab, you should do so knowing that the chances of something going wrong are still there, just that the chances of getting a nasty disease with similar or worse consequences are higher. Gardasil has been rejected by the target group of girls and their parents for this reason, who are voting with their feet.

Re the Japanese study, Arouet, I would just reference this 'critical metastudy' of the other studies:

http://www.safeminds.org/news/documents/Vaccines%20and%20Autism.%20Epidemiology%20Rebuttal.pdf

which examines methodological problems with 16 major studies. As I note, hearing about many anecdotal cases mounts up to something -- these studies seem to somehow hide the necessary detail as noted in the analysis of each one -- the design flaws sometimes seem very obvious and it makes for very uncomfortable reading. Note also that this is not just about one MMR jab causing autism in isolation -- the cumulative effect of multiple DTP jabs and HiB and Hep B jabs etc which contain different immune system adjuvants which are constantly being changed needs to be addressed also. This is a separate matter than the problem of contaminated batches of vaccine that sometimes get produced that can wreak havoc -- I heard about dozens of babies at Newcastle Hospital who all became very sick after their vaccinations -- not sure if any died -- due to a bad batch of vaccine -- the hospital somehow managed to cover this up, the only time you heard about it was through the medical grapevine, i.e. nurses blurting it out by accident in conversation. Even nurses know it's not worth their careers to reveal when things go wrong in the medical system or say anything to reduce public confidence in institutionalised care. See the problem?
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Re: Flu Vaccine INCREASES Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu

Postby Arouet » 23 Sep 2012, 20:01

ok, why don't you present a study you find reliable showing the link between autism and vaccines and we can look at that.
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