Discussions about Holistic Health and Alternative Medicine.
Here's some scientific studies from around the world that suggest that kids vaccinated against the flu are MORE likely to get H1N1 -- also replicated in ferrets. This is how real science needs to be conducted, not just the propagation of belief systems designed to benefit big pharma and boost doctors' consult fees.
I also recommend following the 'related links' on Dr Mercola's article to read a great deal more about many dangerous vaccines, and the hard evidence that has been collected on them, the lack of safety studies, especially in combination, etc -- particularly the MMR, Gardasil, and others -- a vaccine is only worthwhile if it prevents against a very serious disease, and the rate of death and injury from the vaccine must be much less than the actual disease would cause -- and there is no other way of preventing that disease or treating it in a way that facilitates full recovery.
Here's from the wiki on Measles:
Even taking it at the worst (4238) you've still got a 95,000 decrease in deaths per year in Ireland. That's about a million over a decade. How many deaths are attributed to the vaccine?
Measles vaccine is not the same as flu vaccine? A non sequitur?
You mentioned MMR. I interpreted you as being anti-vaccine in general. If your point is that the pros of vaccines must outweigh the cons in order to recommend them then I agree with that principle.
hmm, you assume a lot. I noted exactly that about benefits outweighing cons in my OP. You should be more like the 'fair witnesses' in Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land.
However, now you've mentioned the MMR, It turns out that, for instance, mumps is not a very serious illness in childhood, and it's better to get it earlier than later, when the vaccine has most likely worn off anyhow. The drug cos have conned the public on mumps vaccine in particular -- and then they've done no safety trials on mixing multiple antigens into single shots, reasoning (very unscientifically) that if one is safe by itself (also often dubious) then injecting little kids with multiples all at once must also be safe -- and the FDA and others have accepted that dubious reasoning, without the need for realistic safety trials -- well, the whole population is the safety trial, it turns out -- and we have an epidemic of cot death, autism, asthma and allergies in recent times with 'no medical explanation'.
It's worth seeing what Dr Andrew Wakefield has to say about the MMR and his history, also interviewed recently on the Dr Mercola website. As soon as Dr Wakefield exposed safety problems with the MMR, the British authorities to spite the population immediately removed the single shots from circulation and only allowed the triple antigen MMR to be issued -- because they had to back their own rhetoric and belief system.
e.g. try http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/01/24/new-evidence-refutes-fraud-findings-in-dr-wakefield-case.aspx
Last edited by SydneyPSIder on 21 Sep 2012, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
You are absolutely wrong about the '95,000' death rate, if you look at the article closely, that is the reported infection rate. Only 1/1000 sufferers will die, the others will just get sick.
Deaths attributed to the vaccine are relatively unknown because doctors always choose to attribute sudden infant deaths to other or unknown causes, even when the vaccine was delivered within hours, days or a couple of weeks, and the infant or baby had clear problems with respiration or fever etc after the shot until they died, often in their sleep. Because medical practitioners have been indoctrinated with a belief system that says 'vaccines are harmless' although the evidence says otherwise, they unscientifically rule it out every time.
Then there is the question mark over autism (brain damage from immune over-activation), and asthma and allergies.
Given that the death rate from measles in developed countries is 1/1000, then the number of expected deaths each year in Ireland, as an example, would be about 100. Autism rates are now 1 in 70 boys (14/1000), cot death (SIDS) rates are 0.5/1000. Autism from a vaccine is almost equivalent to a death anyhow, and the costs will be lifelong and very great to the parents and to society.
Doctors and big pharma should be reminded (frequently) of the Hippocratic oath: "First do no harm."
Big pharma in the US were recently indemnified in legislation passed by Congress from liability recourse due to vaccinations because they (supposedly) "meant well". They can see the writing on the wall, and made sure (i.e. bribed as usual) Congress to get that clause through before the multi-billion dollar lawsuits and payouts can begin. MMR and other vaccines now list 'autism' on their adverse reaction sheets.
You are right. I misread - thought it said mortality but that was just dealing with infection.
May I ask for your reference that autism is linked to a vaccine please?
How so? Do you have an autistic child?
Great question Ninja. I was trying to think of a mature way to respond to his statement, but couldn't.
In fairness, I think he just meant that autism is also very serious and should be considered nearly as bad as death- at least from the point of view of evaluating whether the vaccines have acceptable risk.
Because of the level of impairment of a severely autistic child. That child will be in severe pain and distress for the rest of their lives, and they will have problems functioning and will need close care and support forever. As they age, their carers (parents) will pass on, and there is a very real risk they will be abandoned or abused by the system. There is also a large time and financial cost to the parents. Hence the fear of big pharma of multi-billion dollar lawsuits, and the consequences of sheeting home the blame to the profiteers. Economists attempt to put dollar costs on disability, these are astronomical. In the days when I used to administer nursing homes, I saw severely disabled children just dumped into aged care nursing homes as there are no suitable facilities for young people with disabilities. They were locked into a hospital-like institution with elderly people for the rest of their days.
I'm not sure why you ask if I have an autistic child, friends of mine have children with differing levels of disability, and another friend makes a living out of assessing autistic children and attempting to help them in their disability. How should anyone feel reading reports of parents who say their child was meeting all their physical and language development milestones and were happy and fuctioning well, were given a vaccination, were febrile and convulsed, never recovered, and have had autism ever since? Weak muscle tone, massive cognitive impairment, inability to function autonomously, etc. The rates of asthma and allergies induced by vaccines, while disabling, pale in comparison with this.
It's not pleasant taking your kid to the doctor believing you are doing the right thing and they are maimed as a consequence -- permanently and severely. The child had a possibility of a good, happy, productive, self sufficient and fully functioning life taken away from them by the administration of a vaccine (or, more to the point, many vaccines containing multiple antigens and adjuvants) that is not safe for all children, and has never been properly tested for safety except on the full unprotected population as a profit-making experiment.
The following is an example of reasons not to vaccinate as heavily as the schedules suggest or would like:
I'm not sure what you are objecting to in your post?
Last edited by SydneyPSIder on 22 Sep 2012, 07:17, edited 3 times in total.
Casting about, here's another interesting account:
I forgot to add the new ADHD epidemic to the list, by the way.
I can tell you. I have one (my daughter) and the scenario is identical to what you describe.
Your commentary came off to me as saying that children with autism are brain dead or zeros.
I can see that you did not mean this after reading your follow up response to me.
I had always suspected the required DPT shots as the culprit as upon receiving her first one, it was severe seizures, high fever and just plain 3 days of hell. When my son was born I discussed with the pediatrician to have his injections done differently. No reaction. She also had other problems that are considered to be the root cause, so it's a crap shoot in trying to pinpoint the actual reason.
The one thing that I can't find is any medical site or autism site that will put these vaccination suspicions in print.
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