View Active Topics          Latest 100 Topics          View Your Posts          Switch to Mobile

The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Discussions about Holistic Health and Alternative Medicine.

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby ProfWag » 24 Aug 2010, 04:22

Scepcop wrote:
You said you don't agree with a lot of what Randi says. Can you name a few examples?

Of course I know what an Electoral College is. Any American who votes knows what it is. Sheesh. The average educated American knows what it is. Why wouldn't I?

I don't like it either. At least we agree on that.

Can you name some lies by the government? In your link above, the examples you gave were vague. Can you cite specific lies by the government?

I don't always agree with Randi's treatment of non-skeptics. I may agree with him in his beliefs, but not his actions. For example, I DISPISE his use of the word "woo." I think he has misled the public when it comes to Uri. If my memory serves me, he lost a defamation suit against him, yet when he states he hasn't paid him "one red cent," he's implying he won that suit. Again, I really don't know a lot about him. I really don't.
As for the government lies. Well, here are 7. There are more.
1. Without going into specifics, the government either lied or misrepresented to the United Nations about Iraq before going to war.
2. Pearl Harbor was not a surprise attack as the government has led the American people to believe.
3. "I did not have sex with that woman...Miss Lewinski..."
4. The use of Waterboarding
5. Iran-Contra
6. I will not divulge any secrets, but I had a small, bit part on our attack on LIbya in 1986. We did not tell the public everything.
7. My State Senator flat out lied to my face when discussion Health Reform. She told me one thing and less than 2 weeks later, she voted differently on the Senate floor. Senator Lincoln (D-Ark) will not be getting my vote.
Hope this helps you.

By the way, could I interest you in the book "Lies the Government Told You" by Judge Napolitano?
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54






Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Arouet » 24 Aug 2010, 04:30

ProfWag wrote: If my memory serves me, he lost a defamation suit against him, yet when he states he hasn't paid him "one red cent," he's implying he won that suit.


If I'm not mistaken, he was found to have defamed Geller, but the damages were assessed at zero.
User avatar
Arouet
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 03:07

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby ProfWag » 24 Aug 2010, 04:59

Scepcop wrote:
Arouet wrote:
Scepcop wrote:You don't know that. There are no credible studies comparing vaccinated children with unvaccinated ones.


I'll have to do a little digging, but this seems very wrong.


If you find anything, be sure to post it on YouTube too, cause the YouTube community debating the vaccination issue have said this, and no one has disproven them.

Do you guys ever think for a second that MAYBE what you are told by the media is wrong? Or are you total automatons? lol

Here are a few more from various sources citing a wide variety of diseases. I’ve posted just the conclusions for brevity, however, there are links to the actual journal articles. Perhaps the youtube community is a better source of information than, say, the New England Journal of Medicine, but as one who prefers to think critically, I would rather trust journal articles than something that schmuckerville69 posted on youtube. But again, that’s just me. As such, I will follow the lead of many scientists and not post on youtube. Perhaps you can do it for me Scepcop.

"Conclusions This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism."
Entire article here: http://www.contentnejmorg.zuom.info/cgi ... 47/19/1477
A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism
Kreesten Meldgaard Madsen, M.D., Anders Hviid, M.Sc., Mogens Vestergaard, M.D., Diana Schendel, Ph.D., Jan Wohlfahrt, M.Sc., Poul Thorsen, M.D., Jørn Olsen, M.D., and Mads Melbye, M.D
The New England Journal of Medicine. Volume 347:1477-1482 November 7, 2002 Number 19


"Conclusion. Influenza vaccination reduced absenteeism related to respiratory infections by 28%. We therefore believe that routine annual influenza immunizations should be recommended to health care providers working in pediatric settings."
Article: http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstract/1 ... udy.7.aspx
Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal:
September 1999 - Volume 18 - Issue 9 - pp 779-783

"CONCLUSIONS. The validity of reported varicella history varies according to age, and a reported history is no longer highly predictive of seropositivity among cohorts born since 1994 (participants 9 years of age). Universal varicella vaccination, regardless of history, for these children should be considered, as should simplified criteria for varicella zoster virus immunity among unvaccinated persons born before 1994."
Entire article here: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... 123/5/e820
Published online April 27, 2009
PEDIATRICS Vol. 123 No. 5 May 2009, pp. e820-e828 (doi:10.1542/peds.2008-3310)
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Arouet » 24 Aug 2010, 05:14

Problem is, PW, we didn't present these with somber dramatic music and a powerpoint presentation. Not sure it'll sync in.
User avatar
Arouet
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 03:07

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby ProfWag » 24 Aug 2010, 20:40

Arouet wrote:Problem is, PW, we didn't present these with somber dramatic music and a powerpoint presentation. Not sure it'll sync in.

Oh. Good point. Maybe I should get on youtube and read the entire case studies outloud while having "Bolero" playing in the background.
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Arouet » 24 Aug 2010, 21:36

Scepcop wrote:


You gotta apply some critical thinking and look at both sides. Skeptics do that.


I absolutely agree that one must apply critical thinking to any issues. I don't know what you mean by "both sides"; there are usually far more than two sides to any issue. I prefer to think of it more in terms of looking at what claims are being made and seeing if there is reliable evidence backing it up, whether there are logical fallacies being advanced, etc.

I'm willing to dissect this video with you if you want. But I'd like you to start. What is your opinion of the video? How reliable do you think it is? Why?
User avatar
Arouet
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 03:07

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Craig Browning » 24 Aug 2010, 22:27

ProfWag wrote:
Arouet wrote:Problem is, PW, we didn't present these with somber dramatic music and a powerpoint presentation. Not sure it'll sync in.

Oh. Good point. Maybe I should get on youtube and read the entire case studies outloud while having "Bolero" playing in the background.


:shock: That's scary! I had the same exact music going through my head when reading the past three or four posts... that's got to mean something :lol:

I do appreciate the "short list" of references when it comes to vaccination vs. no-vaccination... I also agree that the U.S. in particular, has become far too "treatment" oriented... a heavy vaccination program that has gone well beyond the traditional childhood immunizations; I get flu & pneumonia shots regularly and there's even more, including a now pending injection that can guard one against Type II Diabetes as well as one that is a prophylactic for certain forms of cancer. BUT, look at all the other modes of "medication" that's going on; the excuses and suddenly "dangerous" syndromes or ailments that "require' medical treatment... legalized addiction and nearly mandatory acts of developed "medical" dependency that begins in one's toddling years and well into adulthood.

Can you say "Soma"?

What better way to keep the worker bees in their place? You train them to be afraid of everything, including life itself. The are conditioned to be suspicious and paranoid of one another rather than neighbors and part of a community... even though virtual social contact is being promoted... just look at how many people are addicted to some rather ignorant concepts like Texting and Tweeting... or simply having to have the latest technology based gadgets; each with GPS so the good ole boys know where you are, what you're up to and pretty much what you're thinking... more so, they know your habits and thus, your weaknesses -- how to exploit you!

Yes, it sounds quite paranoid... another conspiracy scenario. But step back and simply consider everything this one issue covers -- how vaccination becomes an accepted part of life based on both, track record and logic -- a conditioned perspective.

NOTE: Playing the theme to the Twilight Zone in the background as you contemplate these things could prove a catalyst for making the whole thing seem creepier than it really is. :twisted:
User avatar
Craig Browning
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 05:20
Location: Northampton, MA

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby ProfWag » 25 Aug 2010, 00:15

AS a 24 year military veteran, I can assure you I have been a living pin cushion to incude everything from flu to anthrax vaccinations and probably a few experimental ones thrown in for good measure that I wasn't aware of. I seem to be okay--twitch. I seem to be okay-twitch. I seem to be okay-twitch. I seem to be okay-twitch. ;-)

Kidding aside, unless a new study emerges that says vaccinations don't do anything, myself and my wife will always keep our shot records up to date, regardless of what Scepcop shows me on youtube.
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Craig Browning » 25 Aug 2010, 21:04

Understand ProfWag, I'm a biggie when it comes to treatments. I spent many long years using "alternative healing" and nearly died as a result of my not trusting medical science a bit more than I once did. My post above, merely paints the conspiracy idea as being plausible though I personally doubt such a thing is really being implemented... hope that's the case at least.
User avatar
Craig Browning
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 05:20
Location: Northampton, MA

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Arouet » 26 Aug 2010, 03:06

Craig Browning wrote:Yes, it sounds quite paranoid... another conspiracy scenario. But step back and simply consider everything this one issue covers -- how vaccination becomes an accepted part of life based on both, track record and logic -- a conditioned perspective.


Craig, vaccinations have become an accepted part of life because they help eliminate some of the most horrifying illnesses around.

When is the last time you saw someone who looked like this?

Image\

It's not about conditioning, dude, its about medicine! And scientific study!

The anti-vaccers have no science behind them. They have youtube videos. Look at Scepcop: he comes in and declares there are no studies involving children controlling for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated benefits. This is patently untrue, and disproved in 2 minutes on google.

I've invited him to dissect that youtube video he posted with me, from a critical perspective. The response?

:crickets:
User avatar
Arouet
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 03:07

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby ProfWag » 26 Aug 2010, 17:37

And when Scepcop's presented with reputable evidence (or proof) that doesn't support the anti-governmental ideology, he'll move on to another subject. That's one of the reasons I'm so vocal in this forum. It says this is a "scientific committee," but it just doesn't seem to be very "scientific" to me. "If the glove doesn't fit, you have to aquit."
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Craig Browning » 26 Aug 2010, 21:18

Arouet... I am "pro" vaccination for the most part, just concerned by how "medically dependent" we've become for every little boo-boo. Sometimes it's good for Jr. to scrape his knees or even break an arm.

My "issue" centers on the acts of over-medication for the sake of parental/educator convenience -- dope the kids so they "behave" vs. actual discipline tactics and enforced "correctional courses" of action... sooner or later these kids must grow up and in the real world there are no "time outs" or "re-dos" Yet, society of late, seems to be trying to make it seem otherwise and in some rather "dangerous" ways, if you ask me.

When I was about 3-1/2 I came down with mumps and the German measles at the same time... it nearly killed me and did cause me to loose a significant level of hearing in one ear (eardrum damage). This was the early 1960s before many of today's standard inoculations were in place and needless to say, well before I was in the school system and subjected to their regiment. Today, very few kids ever encounter just one of these two "childhood diseases" let alone two of them at once, so based on that alone, I have to cosign the idea of 90% of all vaccinations while applauding the other advancements we've seen in pediatric health care... my baby sister dying from a perforated heart condition that is now "fixed' either while in the womb, prior to birth or shortly there after... so there's much to be said about it all.

As to the Conspiracy Theories tied to vaccinations or how they might have adverse affects on SOME children, I'd have to say that a zealot spirit is afoot and thus, one need proceed with caution.
User avatar
Craig Browning
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 05:20
Location: Northampton, MA

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Scepcop » 28 Aug 2010, 04:06

Here is Robert Kennedy Jr. on MSNBC talking about the vaccines and autism link and cover up.



What's interesting to note is that in 1989, babies were only given 10 vaccines during their infancy. Then in 1990, that number suddenly jumped to 36! There was no logical reason for it, no epidemic that caused it. Therefore, it must have been due to pure greed and profit of the pharmaceutical company and their "allies" in the CDC, which move back and forth between those industries, essentially working for both!

What this means is that doctors are no longer relying on reliable unbiased sources of information without vested interest any longer! It's up to us to be careful and research everything!

Also see this film by Gary Null called Vaccine Nation. It's very revealing and shocking.

Part 1 of 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TdSp3hyuHk
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Scepcop » 28 Aug 2010, 04:15

Arouet wrote:
It's not about conditioning, dude, its about medicine! And scientific study!

The anti-vaccers have no science behind them. They have youtube videos. Look at Scepcop: he comes in and declares there are no studies involving children controlling for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated benefits. This is patently untrue, and disproved in 2 minutes on google.

I've invited him to dissect that youtube video he posted with me, from a critical perspective. The response?

:crickets:


YouTube videos are important. They let people learn about something quickly without having to go through a lot of books. That's a big benefit to the average person, so they can learn something quickly without spending too much time. Time is scarce and limited. That's the beauty of YouTube. You get info quickly in an easy to understand format for the average person rather than just scholars.

I do not just have YouTube videos. I have evidence. There are many books on this subject and doctors too.

The fact is, thousands of moms have reported their children getting autism immediately after their child received a lot of vaccines. So they have a RIGHT to question the vaccines as a possible cause. Jenny McCarthy's son got autism too. But after she stopped the vaccinations and used some holistic technique, his autism went away and he recovered. She is living proof of what she believes in.

Most people, thank God, are not as gullible as you skeptics are in assuming that authority = unquestioned truth.

You skeptics don't know anything other than what YOU'VE BEEN TOLD! Get that straight. None of you did any scientific research or interviews. You are only going by what you are TOLD and what you HEARD from official sources that have LIED many times in the past and present, yet you trust to be objective and reliable by FAITH.

Wake up guys! What you are TOLD is often not true. You are given a public excuse for an agenda, yet behind every reason the public is told, is a secret true reason. You guys only see the surface. You never look deeper. That's your problem.

Gullible!

The companies that make the vaccines are doing tobacco science.

If there were studies comparing non-vaccinated to vaccinated children, then why are people pushing for one in Congress, claiming that there is no such study?

And why were vaccines raised from 10 in 1989 to 36 the next year? No logical reason. Only greed could account for that.

You pseudoskeps didn't even know that many people who work for the CDC also worked for the pharmaceutical companies, did you? God you are soooooooooooooooooooooooo gullible and incapable of any critical thinking. Sheesh!
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: The Price Paid for Anti-Vaccination

Postby Scepcop » 28 Aug 2010, 04:22

Arouet wrote:
Scepcop wrote:


You gotta apply some critical thinking and look at both sides. Skeptics do that.


I absolutely agree that one must apply critical thinking to any issues. I don't know what you mean by "both sides"; there are usually far more than two sides to any issue. I prefer to think of it more in terms of looking at what claims are being made and seeing if there is reliable evidence backing it up, whether there are logical fallacies being advanced, etc.

I'm willing to dissect this video with you if you want. But I'd like you to start. What is your opinion of the video? How reliable do you think it is? Why?


I'm not a doctor or scientist and not qualified to dissect it. But even if I were, most doctors only know what they read in medical textbooks and what they've been TOLD by their establishments.

I doubt whether you are qualified either.

But the fact is, vaccines are dangerous. The autism epidemic happened at the same time the vaccines increased. There is no other logical explanation.

Why do you pseudoskeptics not even ponder the possibility?

Instead, you believe every cover up out there by vested interests. You guys never dig for the truth.

Many moms can testify to their children being harmed by vaccines. Moms have a reliable intuition of what's good for their children and what's causing them harm.

If you watch the film I linked above "Vaccine Nation", you'll see an interview with Alan Yurko, whose infant son died suddenly of internal injuries with no logical cause, other than the vaccines. The polite arrested him, but in 2006 he was finally acquitted and found not guilty after new evidence came in about vaccines.

Anyway, the problem with you guys is that you don't do any research outside of establishment sources that have been infiltrated with vested interests. You assume that CDC is a paragon of truth and morality and would never lie.

If you did, then you'd be more objective. But you don't. You just take whatever established sources tell you, and declare it as the truth. That's not very bright in my book. Probably, some of you are mind controlled. Actually we all are mind controlled to some degree. But you guys don't admit that you are.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

PreviousNext

Return to Holistic Health / Alternative Medicine

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron