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More proof for homeopathy

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More proof for homeopathy

Postby johnbenneth » 04 Jun 2009, 05:27

I posted my first online bibliography back in 2000 in response to criticism of homeopathy, that the actions of remedies are nothing more than placebo. I sought to falsify the placebo claim for homeopathy by presenting reports of procedures that identified remedies from their vehicles, usually the water from which they were made.
From these reports I found that there are basically two methods by which to identify homeopathic remedies, in vivo and in vitro: Inside and outside living subjects.
Since that time there has been some fantastic testing going on by reserachers all over the world that show that these "ploacebos" actually have real phsyical identities, and even theory is beginning to develop as t how it is that these substances work.

There have now been to date over 60 biochemical in vitro studies now identfied by WItt et al . .

The in vitro evidence for an effect of high homeopathic potencies--a systematic review of the literature.
Witt CM, Bluth M, Albrecht H, Weisshuhn TE, Baumgartner S, Willich SN.
Institute for Social Medicine, Epidemiology and Health Economics, Charité University Medical Center, D-10098 Berlin, Germany. claudia.witt@charite.de
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17544864

. . the most popular to date being the basophil degranulation test. The basophil degranulation test is the test that was attempted by the TV producers of the BBC program Horizon.

ENNIS: BENVENISTE VINDICATED
Replications by pan European labs
Histamine dilutions modulate basophil activation
Inflammation Research, v 53 #5, April 200
http://www.springerlink.com/content/dmby16rmj02dhxat/
Interview with Madeleine Ennis
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Artic ... 21,00.html

The best in vitro studies I have seen are the Glasgow studies by William Boyd, MD et al, which I hope to post online sometime soon.

There are some fascinating physical studies of homeopathic remedies that are now being made. The most notable to date has been by Conte et al . .

CONTE, BERLIOCHI, LASGNE, VERNOT: THEORY OF HIGH DILUTIONS
http://high-dilutions.net/
CALLINAN: HOW DOES HOMEOPATHY WORK?
http://www.marlev.com/HowItWorks.htm

. . and Roy et al.

ROY: THE SCIENCE OF WATER
Penn State
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/

CHAPLIN: Water Structure and Science
Memory of Water
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/memory.html
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/

ROY, TILLER, BELL, HOOVER: The Structure Of Liquid Water; Novel Insights From Materials Research; Potential Relevance To Homeopathy
Rustum Roy, W.A. Tiller, Iris Bell, M. R. Hoover
Materials Research Innovations 9:4, 577-608, (2005)
http://hpathy.com/research/Roy_Structure-of-Water.pdf
WEBCAST:
Audio
http://www.txoptions.com/videocast/nchwebcast.php

Ultradilute Ag-aquasols with extraordinary
bactericidal properties: role of the system
Ag–O–H2O
Materials Research Innovations, Volume 11, Number 1, March 2007, pg. 3-18.
R. Roy1, M. R. Hoover*1, A. S. Bhalla1, T. Slawecki1, S. Dey2, W. Cao2, J. Li2 and S. Bhaskar2
http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/del ... 86AA08CFC8

JOSEPHSON: NOBEL PRIZE WINNING PHYSICIST ON HOMEOPATHY
http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/wat ... pathy.html

TILLER: On Chemical Medicine, Thermodynamics, and Homeopathy
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10 ... 006.12.685

HARVARD: The silica hypothesis for homeopathy: physical chemistry.
Anick DJ, Ives JA.
Harvard Medical School, McLean Hospital, Belmont, MA 02478, USA
September 06 (update of March 02 Harvard Medical School Course version and Reilly D. Alt Ther Med Health 2005;(11)2:2831).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17678816

SIGNALS AND IMAGES
Contributions and Contradictions about High Dilution Research
Leoni Villano Bonamin
Theoretical and Physical-Chemical Models for Dynamized Systems: Validation Criteria
Carlos Renato Zacharias
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j426q3n151771p43/

Electrical impedance and HV plasma images of high dilutions of sodium chloride.
Assumpção R.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1865 ... rom=pubmed

Homeopathic medicine is now being used to treat serious illnesses, such as cancer:

Dynamized Preparations in Cell Culture
Ellanzhiyil Surendran Sunila, Ramadasan Kuttan, Korengath Chandran Preethi and Girija Kuttan
Amala Cancer Research Centre, Amala Nagar, Thrissur, Kerala–680 555, India
Although reports on the efficacy of homeopathic medicines in animal models are limited, there are even fewer reports on the in vitro action of these dynamized preparations. We have evaluated the cytotoxic activity of 30C and 200C potencies of ten dynamized medicines against Dalton's Lymphoma Ascites, Ehrlich's Ascites Carcinoma, lung fibroblast (L929) and Chinese Hamster Ovary (CHO) cell lines and compared activity with their mother tinctures during short-term and long-term cell culture. The effect of dynamized medicines to induce apoptosis was also evaluated and we studied how dynamized medicines affected genes expressed during apoptosis. Mother tinctures as well as some dynamized medicines showed significant cytotoxicity to cells during short and long-term incubation. Potentiated alcohol control did not produce any cytotoxicity at concentrations studied. The dynamized medicines were found to inhibit CHO cell colony formation and thymidine uptake in L929 cells and those of Thuja, Hydrastis and Carcinosinum were found to induce apoptosis in DLA cells. Moreover, dynamized Carcinosinum was found to induce the expression of p53 while dynamized Thuja produced characteristic laddering pattern in agarose gel electrophoresis of DNA. These results indicate that dynamized medicines possess cytotoxic as well as apoptosis-inducing properties.
Keywords: apoptosis – cytotoxicity – p53 – thymidine uptake
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/cont ... 2/257?etoc

Ruta 6 selectively induces cell death in brain cancer cells but
proliferation in normal peripheral blood lymphocytes:
A novel treatment for human brain cancer
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF ONCOLOGY 23: 975-982, 2003
975
SEN PATHAK1,2, ASHA S. MULTANI1, PRATIP BANERJI3 and PRASANTA BANERJI3
Departments of 1Cancer Biology and 2Laboratory Medicine, The University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center,
Houston, TX 77030, USA; 3PBH Research Foundation, 10/3/1 Elgin Road, Kolkata 700 020, West Bengal, India
http://www.virtualtrials.com/pdf/ruta6.pdf

Effect of Homeopathic Medicines on Transplanted Tumors in
Mice
ES Sunila, Girija Kuttan, Preethi KC, Ramadasan Kuttan*
Asian Pacific J Cancer Prev, 8, 390-394
http://www.apocp.org/cancer_download/Vo ... an%205.pdf

Can homeopathic treatment slow prostate cancer growth?
Jonas WB, Gaddipati JP, Rajeshkumar NV, Sharma A, Thangapazham RL, Warren J, Singh AK, Ives JA, Olsen C, Mog SR, Maheshwari RK.
Samueli Institute, 1700 Diagonal Road, Suite 400, Alexandria, VA
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1710 ... eportPanel

Effects of homeopathic preparations on human prostate cancer growth in cellular and animal models.
Integr Cancer Ther. 2006 Dec;5(4):362-72
Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Georgetown University Medical Center, Washington, DC 20007, USA.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1710 ... d_RVDocSum

Claudia Witt and others have conducted long range studies of homeopathic treatment

WITT: Homeopathic medical practice: long-term results of a cohort study with 3981 patients.
Witt CM, Lüdtke R, Baur R, Willich SN.
Institute for Social Medicine, Epidemiology and Health Economics, Charité University Medical Center, D-10098 Berlin, Germany
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16266440

WITT: How healthy are chronically ill patients after eight years of homeopathic treatment?--Results from a long term observational study.
Witt CM, Lüdtke R, Mengler N, Willich SN.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1909 ... rom=pubmed

Here are other studies that show the effectiveness of homeopathic medicine:

PEDIATRICS: Homeopathic treatment of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: a randomised, double blind, placebo controlled crossover trial. Eur J Pediatr. 2007 May;166(5):509.
Frei H, Everts R, von Ammon K, Kaufmann F, Walther D, Hsu-Schmitz SF, Collenberg M, Fuhrer K, Hassink R, Steinlin M, Thurneysen A.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1604 ... rom=pubmed

JONAS/DILLNER: PROTECTION OF MICE FROM TULAREMIA INFECTION WITH ULTRA LOW SERIAL AGITATED DILUTIONS PREPARED FROM FRANCISELLA TULAREMIA INFECTED TISSUE
http://www.homeopathy.org/research/basi ... illner.pdf

CUBA: HOMEOPATHY STOPS EPIDEMIC
http://www.hpathy.com/homeopathyforums/ ... &PID=84724
and
http://homeopathyresource.wordpress.com ... e-authors/


PEER REVIEW: HOMEOPATHY CLINICAL TRIALS http://www.sherwoodtowne.com/pb/wp_9eaaa71d.html

META ANALYSIS
THE LANCET: Are the clinical effects of homoeopathy placebo effects? A
meta-analysis of placebo-controlled trials
The Lancet, September 20, Vol. 350, 1997
http://www.chalmersresearch.com/bmg/docs/t3a1.pdf

FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: HOMEOPATHY APPROVED
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/096_home.html

ALLAN: BEYOND SUBSTANCE
Viral assays reveal action of high dilutes
http://www.normanallan.com/Sci/bs.html

NEWS ITEM: THE QUEEN’s HOMEOPATH & THERMOLUMINESCENCE
http://www.6minutes.com.au/articles/z1/ ... ?id=220977

IRIS BELL’s HOMEOPATHY EVIDENCE RESEARCH BASE
http://homeopathyusa.org/uploads/Homeop ... rences.pdf

BRIZZI: HOMEOPATHIC AGRONOMY
A Biostatistical Insight into the As2O3 High Dilution Effects on the Rate and Variability of Wheat Seedling Growth
http://content.karger.com/produktedb/pr ... /000087968

BENNETH: 100 YEARS OF EVIDENTIAL HOMEOPATHY
http://johnbenneth.wordpress.com/about/

CHALLENGES TO HOMEOPATHY

NCAHF VS. KING: HOMEOPATHY PROVEN IN COURT
http://www.healthfreedomlaw.com/Court%2 ... icated.htm

VITHOULKAS: RANDI BACKS DOWN
http://www.naturalnews.com/025627.html

Clinical Trials of Homeopathy and Placebo: Analysis of a Scientific Debate
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10 ... .2000.6.49

BBC HOMEOPATHY TEST JUNK SCIENCE
http://www.homeopathic.com/articles/view,59
Ennis horrified
http://www.homeopathic.com/articles/view,55

MEDICAL NEWS TODAY: NEW EVIDENCE FOR HOMEOPATHY
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/129436.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 111308.php
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby antiskeptic » 04 Jun 2009, 09:54

That's a lot of studies. You seem like you know your stuff, Benneth. Maybe you or someone else with more pull can ask George Vithoulkas whether he and the International Academy of Homeopathy are planning on suing Randi and JREF. This would be a pretty big victory in a courtroom setting if everything Vithoulkas says is right.
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Ozz » 28 Jul 2009, 22:31

All those links, and yet, homeopathy still doesn't work. Remarkable.
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Scepcop » 30 Jul 2009, 04:35

Ozz wrote:All those links, and yet, homeopathy still doesn't work. Remarkable.


That's what you think, but for some people, homeopathy does work. If it didn't, no one would buy it. That's common sense, which you skeptics lack. You have a faith based denial. You are not the master of the universe and are not in a position to dictate what is possible and impossible.
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Ozz » 30 Jul 2009, 10:22

Scepcop wrote:That's what you think, but for some people, homeopathy does work. If it didn't, no one would buy it. That's common sense, which you skeptics lack.


You're joking, right? :lol:

Scepcop wrote:You have a faith based denial.


No, I don't. I have facts. What have you got?

Scepcop wrote:You are not the master of the universe and are not in a position to dictate what is possible and impossible.


You're right. I'm not the master of the universe. This guy is.

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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby ciscop » 04 Aug 2009, 05:47

Ozz wrote:
Scepcop wrote:That's what you think, but for some people, homeopathy does work. If it didn't, no one would buy it. That's common sense, which you skeptics lack.


You're joking, right? :lol:

Scepcop wrote:You have a faith based denial.


No, I don't. I have facts. What have you got?

Scepcop wrote:You are not the master of the universe and are not in a position to dictate what is possible and impossible.


You're right. I'm not the master of the universe. This guy is.

Image


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
nice one
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Nostradamus » 09 Aug 2009, 21:39

You claim Randi backed down. In fact, Randi refuses any testing which might endanger people.

No one backed down. There was an inability of the two groups to agree to an acceptable test. The burden of proof is on the submitter to provide a claims and a safe means of testing that claim.

So please report accurately.

I'll take a look at some of the other links. That one just jumped out at me as incorrectly stated.
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Ozz » 21 Aug 2009, 13:40

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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Nostradamus » 28 Aug 2009, 08:04

Thanks Ozz for the no homeopathy plea. This is a must read article.
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Scepcop » 30 Aug 2009, 21:58

Nostradamus wrote:You claim Randi backed down. In fact, Randi refuses any testing which might endanger people.

No one backed down. There was an inability of the two groups to agree to an acceptable test. The burden of proof is on the submitter to provide a claims and a safe means of testing that claim.

So please report accurately.

I'll take a look at some of the other links. That one just jumped out at me as incorrectly stated.


I think you're confusing John Benneth with the guy from India who claims to be able to go without food and water for a long time. Benneth's homeopathy protocol has no danger or risk in it. Get real. You guys are deluded and mix up unrelated things yet again.
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Nostradamus » 31 Aug 2009, 08:52

You guys are deluded and mix up unrelated things yet again.


Sigh. Please try to get something right for a change.

From the $1M CHallenge
Dr. Satyaprakasham has applied for the Million Dollar Challenge, and provided all necessary documents.

He has applied with the claim that he is able to treat/cure individuals suffering from chronic breathing issues, such as asthma. He has proposed a study that would be observed by physicians wherein he would treat a group of volunteers using homeopathic remedies.

The JREF has written back and reminded Dr. Satyaprakasham that we will be unable to approve a testing protocol in which the volunteers are asked to cease medical treatments, and that we will not accept any claim that puts the volunteers in danger.
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Ozz » 03 Sep 2009, 22:19

I just noticed the inaccuracy in the title of this thread. There has never been any proof for homeopathy. How can there now be "more"? Hmmm...
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby ciscop » 03 Sep 2009, 23:40

IT IS JUST WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATER???
what dont they get??

WATER IS WATER!!!
it has no magic properties!!
what the hell is wrong with you??
even little kids know water isnt magical !!

damn
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Nostradamus » 23 Nov 2009, 21:41

I've been discussing homoeopathy with a practitioner on a science forum. What surprised me was that when the person accepted the challenge to provide scientific evidence for their field they failed. That's weird. They provided around 14 articles to support their claim. They did this over the course of 2 weeks, about an article a day. It turns out that almost every article was clear int hat it stated our results were not statistically significant so a larger study is required. A few of the articles in support of homoeopathy were not double blinded. In fact, in 1 very large study people were asked which group they wanted to be in. What was the point of that? Do you want to receive a homoeopathic treatment? Yes. Does this make you better? Yes. Well it looks like its working.

Finally, after 14 entries and only 1 article supported homoeopathy the person had a hissy fit about me rejecting articles that said in the articles either not random or not statistically significant.

When work is done to a 95% confidence interval you'd expect about a 5% false positive. Where are those papers? If homoeopathy is being tested as the practitioner claimed, then there should be many more papers to find in that 5% category.
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Re: More proof for homeopathy

Postby Nostradamus » 29 Nov 2009, 21:26

Ran across this comment in the JREF forum. It was marked as a speculation because the person stated that they were not part of the $1M Challenge. This may not be correct, but discusses issues concerning testing homeopathy.

One of the hardest things about the Challenge to grasp (especially for homeopaths) is that the results have to be unambiguous. That means there can't be any subjective judgement required. And the results have to be completely self-evident. It's very hard to do this with many homeopathic claims. For example, let's say someone claims that he can cure headaches with a 30C dilution of Pure Essence of Widget. The hard thing about this is: how can you demonstrate that anyone involved actually has a headache? Sure, they could /say/ that they have headaches, but how can you be sure? It's a subjective thing.

Many attempts to demonstrate homeopathy require, essentially, large-scale medical trials. This is generally out of the scope of the Challenge because of the time and resources it would require, all of which have to be paid for by the claimant. You'd have to have a really large pool of people. It's not to say that it's impossible; however, it's generally beyond the scope of claimant's ability to arrange.
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