Clueless Ghost Skeptics

[Eteponge]

A Skeptic on a Facebook Group recently stated the following in a Ghost Topic ...

"I just find it odd that only people who believe in the paranormal are ever witness to it. I've seen the diminished capacity that people in a superstitious rant display. They attribute small things to the paranormal. And two kids, convinced that there's a ghost around, convince themselves that the dishes weren't there before.

But "hauntings" are never anything more than a creaking house, mouse or raccoon problem, wind whistling through an exhaust vent and changes in air pressure within the house that occasionally open a door or two. I have watched people convince themselves of some seriously odd things while in a state of supernatural hysteria."

One who believes that *everything* Apparition / Haunting related can universally be adequately explained away by those simple easily checkable things hasn't done any amount of honest serious research on the topic whatsoever. In any *SERIOUS* investigation / research into a case, those are the VERY FIRST things considered, checked, and discounted (if applicable). This person obviously isn't aware of those many documented cases where all of the natural explanations are checked and ruled out and found to not match an explanation for whatever is going on. Any researcher with a lick of common sense would check out all of the natural explanations first and foremost, before jumping to paranormal conclusions.

The remark about "I just find it odd that only people who believe in the paranormal are ever witness to it" is a total BS strawman. There are MANY cases of people who did not believe in Ghosts, Hauntings, Etc, and were highly skeptical of such things who then eventually directly experienced it. Many of the best documented apparition / haunting cases you will find are of former skeptics' experiences.

Unless he is asking why only those who believe in the paranormal have paranormal experiences (which is a trap statement that goes like this: If you were a skeptic, and had a paranormal experience, and believe it was indeed paranormal, you are not a "skeptic", and are therefore classified as a "believer", as "only believers have paranormal experiences" a trap statement), which is just as silly as asking why only non-virgins have had sex, and why no virgins have ever had sex, because they aren't virgins anymore you brainless idiot.

[NinjaPuppy]

I particularly liked this sentence: "I've seen the diminished capacity that people in a superstitious rant display."

Isn't that special? Diminished capacity??? Superstitious rant??? What is superstitious about trying to explain something that you have personally experienced? I supposed that this person feels that anyone who believes that ghosts exists (based on their beliefs for whatever personal reasons they may have) have diminished capacity? So only stupid people believe in ghosts, so to speak.

[brett]

well this person should have first hand experience of contacting the dead if he is on face book ,twitter , etc ( the BRAIN dead that is )

have you noticed that the pskeptics are using every means available to spread THEIR version of the truth ?? - not satisfied with the normal channels and multitudinous websites , they have to use ALL available avenues - what DRIVES these people ?? - these experts , who seem to know it all - is this some sinister plot to stop anyone using their brains to figure things out for themselves ?? - part of the NWO diktat that no one must think - examine - question the word of the enlightened ones ??

ooops sorry - i am starting to sound all paranoid - naughty - naughty - must go flagellate my self with a copy of skeptics weekly until i reform ..............

( Brett is NOT on ANY social networking sites BTW - a few forums - but no twittering ** or face booking for me - no sir )

* i have several cockatiels and a parrot to do all the twittering in this house that is required - so there !!

[ciscop]

i went to a " haunted " house once
turns out it wasnt haunted....

to make the story short
there were people inside.. they scare the hell out of us.. they were
ACTUAL LIVING PEOPLE
and me and my friends were trasspassing, the house wasnt haunted nor abandoned!..

we could have been arrested if it wasnt that we were teenagers and they let us go

true story..

[The Warrigal]

I agree that this sort of nonsense is NOT sceptism but is it only too typical of those ignorant bigots who choose to hide their fundamentalist biases under the euphemism of "scepticism."

I know several people aside from myself who were non-believers in paranormal phenomena until we all had own own personal brush with it.

And if the explanations were as simple as those given then there would'nt be any debate on these matters.

Trying to get to the bottom of any inexplicable phenomena, discern it's cause and find out why it behaves as it does is what I in my uneducated mind thought science was always about.

Evidently I was wrong.

When confronted with rare phenomena I must NEVER try to find out what it is.

The "scientific" thing to do here is close my eyes and shout: - "NOT REAL! - NOT REAL!"

[The Warrigal]

Ciscop.

Your story reminds me of something which happened to some school friends of mine when we were all about twelve or so.

Halloween is a pretty recent import to Australia and wasn't celebrated then so if kids wanted to play at something a bit spooky Friday 13 was the date to do it.

So on midnight that date some of the stoughter hearted of our mates went exploring in an abandonded mental hospital rumoured to be haunted.

No ghosts did our intrepid young advenurers find nor any bad tempered squatters either, but what they did find was arguably more disturbing to young minds than creepy atmospherics.

In on of the basement rooms of the old hospital the kids found scores of cardboard boxes filled with documents of the former patients of the facility.

Just looking at the photographs of those tormented wretches who had once been confined there was enough to even most devil-may-care of young lads feel a sense of sorrow for those people and their families.

The lads started out feeling very bold and full of bravado, but finished their adventure feeling as if they had been intruding into the most private realms of other peoples lives and morbidly snooping into the private hell in which so many humans are condemnded to live.

And I do agree with you.

People have more cause to fear some of the living on this earth than they need ever fear the dead.

[ProfWag]

Believe it or not, for the most part I agree with you Eteponge on your assessment of that post. Unfortunately, although Brett is partially true on his statement about skeptics using everything possible to get their version of the truth out, that also holds true for non-skeptical believers as well, i.e. heavily edited TV shows, forums, web sites, billboards, talk shows, yadda yadda yadda.

[NinjaPuppy]

[ProfWag]

[ciscop]

[brett]

may be "their version of the truth " was not a good term to use ?? - ( forgive my inelegance in putting my thoughts down in type ) - OK lets try again , we all know that according to the sceptics " anecdotal evidence " is not acceptable as it cant be "proven " to the satisfaction of the thing we loosely term as "science " ( which covers a multitude of sins ) in that the results of the "observation " are not repeatable under "scientific " conditions , but how does one repeat a one off event ??

no my problem with the skeptics - is this attitude of its not possible because WE have not witnessed it - and even if we did - we would STILL dismiss it as delusion ( insert what ever term you want here ) - and that those reporting a one off phenomena - possibly witnessed ONLY by them , must be somehow crazy , delusional etc etc - ignoring the possibility that the witness HAS factually reported an event which WAS real and was NOT an hallucination etc etc , thus implying that anyone who has had ,or believes in the possibility of such rare events happening - is crazy ( by their so perfect standards ?? )

( at this point i will remind you all of the old adage that " the truth is sill the truth , even IF that truth is known ONLY to one person " )

and lets be fair here - there ARE some out there who would dismiss ( for example ) a UFO landing on the lawn of the white house and the occupants being greeted by the president on world TV as a hoax ,( heck some say the moon landings where faked ) - because they could not go poke the aliens and satisfy themselves they WHERE real - or that the event could not be replicated under controlled conditions ( OK very extreme example here - but you get my drift )

so basically its a "no win " situation for ALL sides at the moment - we the "believers" cant PROVE the existence of ghosts - whilst the skeptical can not PROVE they don't exist - as how DO you find a level of evidence that will satisfy every one on earth ?? - its like religion , i often wonder how many skeptics are "religious" which implies "faith" ?? the very thing we believers are slated for having

i guess at the end of the day - when we do die - then and only then will we know if any of us where right or wrong ?? - and about half of us are gonna be mighty disappointed

in the mean time , i suppose it keeps us ,sceptic and believer alike amused

ho hum ....................

[NinjaPuppy]

[ProfWag]

[brett]

firstly prof , my condolences on the loss of your parents - i know from loosing my wife 3 years ago nearly that its a thing we all have to face up to in some form , but it never makes it any easier

i think one of the main problems with all this is the confusing of the idea of "heaven" ( a religious based portrayal ) - with what i term "continuance " - in that i believe we DO all survive death - in some form - and that continuance is probably nothing like the mythical "heaven" we are all taught about when young

what i will say to you prof is do keep an open mind - as many people who did not believe in any form of continuance , will relate experiences of contact by deceased relatives - my mother for instance - used to be the same as you - that's it - nothing more once you go - UNTILL my father who had passed some 30 years previous , manifested fully to her one day - and i don't believe she is either delusional or tells lies , so you never know - just keep that small space open in your mind for possibilities

[NinjaPuppy]