If Their Is A Soul Where Is It?

[ProfWag]

[Indigo Child]

[caniswalensis]

While reading through some of the articles here, I found this one which seems to touch on the topic at hand:
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debunking_New_Age.htm

Apologies if it is not appropriate to the conversation. I think it is a good read, anyway.

Regards, Canis

[ProfWag]

[ProfWag]

I began a new thread under the "Spiritual Teaching" heading with the title "Human Flying." I thought this kind of discussion would be better suited undere that topic.

[Indigo Child]

Prowag,

The difference between belief and knowledge is that knowledge is
when one directly experiences something. It is not my belief that
at this moment I am talking to you, it is my knowledge. Similarly,
it is not my belief that I have my left my body, it is my knowledge.
I have directly experienced it. Like I said, if you are willing to put
in the effort and do the experiments I prescribed, you can have the
same knowledge as me.

As I said in an earlier thread if you set out inquiring into something,
with preconceptions about what is possible and what isn't, you are not
doing science, you are doing politics. The fact is you don't know the reality of
anything absolutely, if you did, you would not be on this forum. You are as much
a truth seeker as anybody else. This universe is as much mysterious to you as it
is to anybody else.

If you seriously want to know the reality of spiritual planes and out of body experiences,
research on it, read the books and articles of those who have them regularly, and try having
one yourself by doing the techniques. This is a science which has been scientifically studied by many
scientists, such as Robert Monroe. Countless people have reported to have these experiences from
ancient to modern times. There is more than enough evidence for you to take this seriously and investigate
it.

In the end if all of this is really true you are just robbing yourself of exploring a whole new dimension of life,
which will completely transform your life and give you a more enchanted perspective of life. Anyway I will continue
to enjoy the spiritual life, whether you decide to join us or not. You're missing out.

[really?]

[Indigo Child]

I can see the overlaps with what I am saying with religion, but
in actual fact what I am saying is actually spiritual, and there are key
differences. Religion is about beliefs, where one will believe something for
which they have no validation, such as believing in an after-life. Spirituality,
on the hand is where one personally validates what may begin as a belief
initially or as reasoned belief(logical argument) such that it is no longer a belief,
but becomes a knowledge.

I am not speaking in terms of beliefs that there is another dimension of life, this
is validated by my personal out of body experiences and other psychic experiences,
and it is also validated by scientific research in spirituality. There is more to this world
than our 5 sensory access to it, and I encourage you to investigate this, because it will
give you a whole new dimension of life. The beauty is at the higher dimensions of life one
becomes filled with postivity, joy, compassion and bliss. This is a real dimension that countless
masters throughout the ages have cultivated.

I can understand your reservations about not accepting psychic powers or masters who claim psychic
powers, although Yogananda I cited earlier recounting the story of Babaji materialising the golden palace,
is a highly respected master, both by spiritual people and academics. When he gave talks in the USA, he would
talk to packed audiences consisting of mainly academics and highly educated people. All I can say is investigate
it and find the truth yourself. To me psychic powers are not amazing, because I understand the essential nature
of reality is mind stuff. It is maliable and responds to the mind, because it indeed only exists in the mind.This
is something neuroscientists accept as well, reality is a representation which is constructed in the mind,
as such it is virtual. In other words if reality is constructed in the mind, it a mind-stuff, which responds to mind.


Remember I set you the challenge earlier to prove that something physical could evolve into something non physical,
and you admitted that you don't know how, indirectly showing you simply believed it. If we look at this logicaly, something
physical cannot become non physical, but something non physical could indeed become physical through aggregation. It is
so more logical to accept that reality is fundamentally a mind stuff. As soon as you take that logical step, psychic powers
much less being amazing, will be expected.

[really?]

[Indigo Child]

[Craig Browning]

[Indigo Child]

Dear Craig Browning,

I understand where you are coming from, and I think for the most part you are right. I just want
to respond to some of your critisms.

On Hermetic silence. I have for the most part in real life become silent on these issues, and learned
to bite my tongue and just observe what is blatantly wrong. I only talk spirituality with people who are
spiritual, and not just anybody. Some people are not worth engaging. I make an exception here, becase
this is a discussion forum, which calls for critical discussion and debate. Remember, even masters like Adi
Sankara never declined a debate. It is not unanimous in the spiritual order that we should remain silent, some
masters are feisty and actually go out there to destroy the wrong conceptions. Remember what Jesus said, "I have
come to destroy"

On regurgitation of doctrine. Guilty. I am primarily a logician and philosopher, before I am spiritual. I will readily
admit I have not realised much of what I teach. Most of my knowledge is Eastern, as you rightly point out, with some
consideration of Western philosophy. However, you know yourself spirituality is never original. The same truths are
discovered by all spiritual seekers. It happens to be the Eastern tradition has a far better map and understanding of
spirituality, so I see no reason to use other maps or create new maps. If something is working, what is the point fixing it?
Due to my training in logic and philosophy, I can present that map in the language of rationality that is spoken today, I
am merely an organizer of information. None of these ideas are mine. As for the spiritual part, I have long recognised the
need to realise theory as fact, and am in the process of finding a master to do that. I aim to dedicate myself 100% to this
as soon as I find that master and forget all I know.

On fantasy. I think we will continue to disagree on this point. I started out completely opposed to this idea, I would balk when
people talked about gods, angels, spirit guides, demons, elementals, white lodges and black lodges, magik, thinking this was just a
primitive description of some abstract principles. Now as my knowledge has increased, I have realised those descriptions are in fact
true. I have now a much more enchanted view of reality. It is very much like a fantasy. This universe is all life, and it comes in different
forms, shapes, sizes, densities and orientations.

[Craig Browning]

[Indigo Child]

I totally agree one can only teach by living the example, rather than through words.
I am not a teacher though, I am a student. I am not here to teach, but to discuss
and debate with others and challenge bad thinking. The skeptics are already feeling
the heat from me lol

When I meet my master, I won't be doing this anymore. I will be dedicated to my
practice, working on myself. The spiritual journey demands absolute dedication.

[Craig Browning]

Chop the wood... fetch the water. Learn the parable and live to understand it.