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I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Discussions about Afterlife Research, Survival Science, Near Death Experiences, Out of Body Experiences, Spirit Communication, Mediumship, Ghosts, Spirits, etc.

Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby Craig Browning » 11 Aug 2012, 23:35

NinjaPuppy wrote:Allow me to try to make sense of all of this in my own mind. Does this mean that we create our own reality with our minds? My entire lifetime can be nothing more than how my brain perceives like energy waves or something?


Yup! Ask anyone from a Christian Science or Science of Mind type background . . . then again, Hermes was teaching this about 5,000 years ago "The Mind is All; All is Mind: Thought Creates"

I think I shared this once before, the elementary idea that every thought is an electrical impulse -- a physical manifestation -- and akin to that famed Butterfly in the Amazon gently fluttering its wings, that impulse initiates a chain of events that can bring about a particular manifestation. I say that with hesitance because one thought can be negated or cancelled out by an alternative thought. It's simply a matter of which though hosts the greater sense of energy (focus). This is why the ritual of Prayer seems to potent; it is a focused expression of will and as such it has the ability to bring about an effect. The irony is, other circumstances are afoot that they typical praying patron rarely weighs, starting with the fact that the person (usually) they pray for, must give permission in order for the effort to have any chance of being effective -- a conscious act of acceptance & receptivity. If this is not given and people pray for someone against their consent, it is literally "Black Magick" -- an act of trespass in that they are trying to force their personal will onto someone that wishes to express their own free will. Many occultists have written about this, the better noted being Blavatsky and though controversial, she still pooped out some very interesting logic.

New Age publisher & author Louise Hay's earlier works went deep into this issue as did the works of James Allen (As a Man Thinketh -- http://wahiduddin.net/thinketh/as_a_man_thinketh.pdf).

While I give a great deal of credence to this "Law" I get into trouble with most adherents because they negate the other Universal Law known as Karma and how it is another facets to our "self-creation" process; both, the karma we bring with us from one life to the next as well as what we create for ourselves in the here & now be it good or bad, based on our thoughts & actions (or inaction). The "New Age" mentality tends to want only the "good parts" and like most religious patrons, seeks to find the loop holes that allow them to escape responsibility when it comes to the "negatives" or "lessons" these laws allow us to benefit from.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby Jayhawker30 » 26 Aug 2012, 15:47

ProfWag wrote:
truthleaker wrote:I would like some evidence or proof of an afterlife. Even though I'm a skeptic I'm open to the possibility of an afterlife.

Get in line and join the crowd Truthleaker... :|


I'd say it's actually the "crowd" that's causing the holdup. 8-)
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby Grichard » 23 Sep 2012, 17:01

I would like some evidence or proof of an afterlife. Even though I'm a skeptic I'm open to the possibility of an afterlife.

This might be of help:



It's a documentary about Near death experiences. Lasts about an hour if you have time to spare.

The most astonishing and convincing part is the Pam Reynolds case.

Interesting thread by the way. I've learned a lot from reading this.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby SydneyPSIder » 23 Sep 2012, 19:24

truthleaker wrote:I would like some evidence or proof of an afterlife. Even though I'm a skeptic I'm open to the possibility of an afterlife.


truthleaker wrote:I was hoping you'd guys would provide me with some stuff nvm, lol

I dunno, there was a ghost living in my apartment who died in 1860 or thereabouts, that was enough to convince me. He still had 'senses' and could hear and see and learn new things and have a chat. Some people out there have a 6th sense and can see and hear and communicate with these spirits directly also. Don't ask me how it works, it makes no sense at all that you can lose your biological organs and still be sentient.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby NinjaPuppy » 24 Sep 2012, 03:06

Welcome Grichard.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby mac877 » 03 Mar 2013, 23:47

my wife my son and i saw my son who died aug 23 2011 smile when my living son made a joke at the funeral home when we were viewing his brothers body after coming back from the medical examiners before he was cremated we all saw it at the same time and whatever you think or try to explain it away it happened and im no longer asceptic of an afterlife that was my proof because we all saw it and just as my wife was thinking it i said it out loud it said to us hes alright in a better place it was truly a gift from him or god or whatever i recomend a book my friend gave me called life after life it is accounts of people from a doctor who was studying near death stuff from people all over the world
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby SydneyPSIder » 06 Mar 2013, 10:20

All very possible mac.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby Paradox » 07 Jul 2013, 03:21

Why shouldn't an atheist believe in an afterlife?
No reason whatsoever, but there are so many terms out there, even enough to confuse a seasoned philosopher. Atheism tends to correlate with what's considered 'natural' or observable to our senses and instruments. A good deal of those paranormal debunking atheists are usually reductionists or obscurants. Also, the secular intrusion into afterlife research is likely not too welcomed by many rigid religionists either.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby pwil » 22 Dec 2013, 00:44

I'm not really sure which way to go on this subject. I really want to believe there is an afterlife. I take some people's accounts with their experiences at hand, but I need to experience it myself. My own mother says she has spoken to spirits. I just don't know how to take that. I don't think she is crazy or making it up, but don't understand how this is possible. She has told me that this had gone on in my childhood house while I was living there. Not once have I ever had an inkling that there were spirits among me. Not saying that this wasn't possible, but if it were, how can some people sense them while others can't while in the same room?
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Dec 2013, 01:55

pwil wrote:I'm not really sure which way to go on this subject. I really want to believe there is an afterlife. I take some people's accounts with their experiences at hand, but I need to experience it myself. My own mother says she has spoken to spirits. I just don't know how to take that. I don't think she is crazy or making it up, but don't understand how this is possible. She has told me that this had gone on in my childhood house while I was living there. Not once have I ever had an inkling that there were spirits among me. Not saying that this wasn't possible, but if it were, how can some people sense them while others can't while in the same room?

Hi pwil and welcome. Thanks for asking this question.... as afterlife, ghosts and spirits are some of my favorite things to ponder. Let's begin with your perfect intro for your personal feelings about there being an afterlife.
pwil wrote:I'm not really sure which way to go on this subject. I really want to believe there is an afterlife. I take some people's accounts with their experiences at hand, but I need to experience it myself.

This is really an excellent mindset when it comes to anything of the paranormal variety. It shows an open mind, yet you require more than many when it comes to an answer before forming any personal opinion.

I have experienced situations in my lifetime that could be called 'spirit contact' or ESP or whatever term an individual cares to call it. The problem is that I don't know what it is or how it's even possible. It is what it is, and it's been a blast trying to figure it out. I've recently reached a point in my life where the 'what' isn't all that important. I'm more interested in the 'how' and then the 'why'. Not 'how does it happen', more like how do I get the most out of it. Even the 'why' doesn't mean much other than to rule out the possibility of a medical or psychological problem that may need fixing. ;)
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby pwil » 22 Dec 2013, 02:17

I too find the subject on ghosts and spirits very fascinating. You hear so many accounts on other people's ghost encounters that I try to find one of my own. I have even walked through a cemetery late at night with my 2 dogs hoping they would pick up on something but found nothing to my avail.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby pwil » 22 Dec 2013, 02:31

One thing that really boggles my mind about there maybe being an afterlife is why must you live and die in one dimension to move onto another? Why not have an eternal life from the start or do we all have something to prove first before moving on? And if so, not everybody gets a chance to prove themselves when they die at a very early age. What would happen to them? I know no one has these answers but I am interested in other people's take on this.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Dec 2013, 03:59

pwil wrote:One thing that really boggles my mind about there maybe being an afterlife is why must you live and die in one dimension to move onto another? Why not have an eternal life from the start or do we all have something to prove first before moving on? And if so, not everybody gets a chance to prove themselves when they die at a very early age. What would happen to them? I know no one has these answers but I am interested in other people's take on this.

My take is that while we are here, we are expected to learn some life lesson(s). The lesson(s) and or the path becomes an individual thing as we live, die, come back, repeat. This goes on until our soul, spirit, energy, whatever you want to call it, finally figures out the big picture. Upon our current physical bodies no longer functioning, the soul, spirit, energy, whatever you want to call it, can basically take a break and do whatever it wants/needs to figure out that path or lesson(s).

In my mind that explains a lot of things. Past lives, ghosts, heaven, spirits, etc. Maybe you have to pick a place and stick in it until you decide to be reborn and start the whole process over again. Maybe, depending on your total lessons learned, your mileage may vary and you can hop around should you so desire. Either way, you keep on coming back as time progresses. BTW, the time that progresses may not necessarily be on this planet or this plane.
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Dec 2013, 07:54

NinjaPuppy wrote:
pwil wrote:One thing that really boggles my mind about there maybe being an afterlife is why must you live and die in one dimension to move onto another? Why not have an eternal life from the start or do we all have something to prove first before moving on? And if so, not everybody gets a chance to prove themselves when they die at a very early age. What would happen to them? I know no one has these answers but I am interested in other people's take on this.

My take is that while we are here, we are expected to learn some life lesson(s). The lesson(s) and or the path becomes an individual thing as we live, die, come back, repeat. This goes on until our soul, spirit, energy, whatever you want to call it, finally figures out the big picture. Upon our current physical bodies no longer functioning, the soul, spirit, energy, whatever you want to call it, can basically take a break and do whatever it wants/needs to figure out that path or lesson(s).

In my mind that explains a lot of things. Past lives, ghosts, heaven, spirits, etc. Maybe you have to pick a place and stick in it until you decide to be reborn and start the whole process over again. Maybe, depending on your total lessons learned, your mileage may vary and you can hop around should you so desire. Either way, you keep on coming back as time progresses. BTW, the time that progresses may not necessarily be on this planet or this plane.


All interesting points to ponder. I tend to think nothing is very purposive tho. It's kind of like the theory that our consciousness itself (whatever it might be) is just an epiphenomenon of evolutionarily growing a bigger brain. Similarly our 'souls' might just be an epiphenomenon of our expanded consciousness.

So I tend to rule out elaborate new age structuration and musings of the kind outlined by Craig Browning back up there in 2012, especially regarding the notion of reincarnation and 'planning' and so forth. And the nominal maths of reincarnation with an exploding world population tends to disprove the idea outright? Given that this is a likely record of world population:

Image

After all, we reproduce as biological entities no differently than cockroaches or rabbits. And I doubt the existence of a 'soul factory' up there to make up the numbers. (Sounds very Terry Pratchett, lol.) There's a net 7 billion new souls that had to come from somewhere. I believe the notion of reincarnation is just another failed religious idea as an attempt to explain... something....

My alternative theory to NinjaPuppy's (role of heaven, possibility of reincarnation, etc) is that, yes, we have some kind of soul or energy that persists after death. Being physically alive on earth is not a 'proving ground' or progressive refinement or anything, I mean look at the wars of the 20th century, we're clearly not learning anything. Look at the 'shock and awe' attack on innocent people in Baghdad in the 21st century chasing oil reserves. Look at how the Sinhalese treat the Tamils in Sri Lanka. Look at the DRC. etc etc. It's still all about personal power and control of resources and money in the physical world, the hegemony of overweening egos, etc. Remember a guy 2,000 years ago who said the meek will inherit the earth, and that the first will be last and the last will be first? I'm not seeing any of that.

Experiences of 'past lives' can be alternatively explained as a kind of 'possession' of a living person by a wandering soul who simply implants their memories on the person from time to time. The person is effectively used as an involuntary medium. This fits into all the evidence I've seen of remembering 'past lives', mediumship. etc in one neat model. It's kind of like replacing the 'music of the spheres' and complicated theories of planetary movement with a simple heliocentric one. One example is the small child walking past a tourist Norman castle who 'remembers' living there for a second, or who points out a hidden escape door that was not known about for centuries. Another is the woman in Australia who remembers details of living in 18th century France, and can recognise details of buildings and roads when she goes there.

I'm still pretty fascinated to know if 1) everyone has a persistent soul, 2) how long these souls might live -- hundreds of years, thousands of years, or 'forever'? There is evidence of 1,000 years. Do they attenuate in strength? The ghost in my apartment died in about 1860 and said he was 'tired' some 150 years later. 3) what possible 'places' these souls can go -- do they congregate together? Is 'heaven' just a congregation of the 'nice people' who died? where they kick out anyone they don't like who tries to join them, i.e. all the nasty people and psychopaths back on earth who died are rejected based on what the other spirits know about them? (This then would indeed lead to hierarchies of congregations of spirits or a 'purgatory' etc where Bush, Rumsfeld etc could reflect on who they were and why they acted as they did now that they're dead and powerless.) Or do they wander the physical earth, sometimes engaging in poltergeist activity or the temporary possessions or 'past life' memory thing, or just marvelling at how technology changes? Or some combination of both?

This 'alternative theory' also convincingly fits all the evidence that I have seen, read, observed, etc, and is not contradicted by any of it, is simple, not purposive or requiring of a grand intelligence to control, is biologically plausible, and is not contradicted by realisations of exploding population numbers. So it passes the usual scientific tests.

This is where I also questioned the adherents of a 'spiritual church' who advised me to tell my ghost to 'go to the light' and all kinds of junk -- who am I to tell them stuff I have no idea about the 'real' existence of? How could I or anyone living know better than the guy on the other side?
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Re: I'm a skeptic of any afterlife

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Dec 2013, 22:25

Wow Syd, what a great post!
I'll attempt to add my two cents at some point today but for some reason, the quote html does not want to behave (as usual) and it's going to screw up who said what unless I do it via cut and paste.
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