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Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Discussions about Afterlife Research, Survival Science, Near Death Experiences, Out of Body Experiences, Spirit Communication, Mediumship, Ghosts, Spirits, etc.

Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Scepcop » 03 Dec 2010, 21:16

To believers of the soul and afterlife:

I have a question for you about consciousness and the brain that I'm wrestling with. Maybe you can shed some light on it.

During anesthesia, most people black out. They don't even dream. They lose all awareness until they wake up later. That happened to me once too. I didn't even dream like in normal sleep.

So my question is, if I lose all awareness of time and thought during anesthesia, is that evidence that consciousness depends on brain? How can that be? I'm sure the skeptics will use that to argue that consciousness does not survive death, right?

How would you explain this?

Also, why does my awareness disappear during normal sleep? How can my soul or consciousness be switched off like a light switch? Can you explain this?

It does seem that when you dream, time doesn't pass in a normal sequence like it does in waking consciousness. I wonder why that is. Do dreams take place in a realm where time doesn't operate as we know it?
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby caniswalensis » 03 Dec 2010, 21:29

Scepcop wrote:Skeptics,
A question for you. In this clip, Dr. Jeffrey Long talks about NDErs experiencing 360 degree vision, which is medically inexplicable. How do you explain that? How can one during a hallucination experience 360 degree vision?

One possible explanation is that these are real experiences, but not real objective events. This is all completely subjective in terms of the data reported.

Many people also report looking down on themselves, which is possibly a by-product of how memories are constructed. I suppose the impression of 360 Deg. vision could be related.

I myself have had an experience in which I seemed to be looking down on myself from around ten feet in the air and to the rear of my physical body. This experience lasted only a couple seconds at most, but it was disconcerting, to say the least. I am not sure that my consciousness was actually outside my body though. There is no way to ever know if it was, so i do not figure my personal experience into the equation when looking at things like NDE's & Astral projection.

Generally speaking, I do not think that we know enough to say exactly what is going on during an NDE. I suppose we may never know. It's a fascinating topic, though.

Regards, Canis
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Arouet » 03 Dec 2010, 22:36

There is a lot of research being done on this field. The AWARE study should be out next year or 2012. It will be interesting.
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Paradox » 28 Jan 2011, 18:24

To believers of the soul and afterlife:

"I have a question for you about consciousness and the brain that I'm wrestling with. Maybe you can shed some light on it.

During anesthesia, most people black out. They don't even dream. They lose all awareness until they wake up later. That happened to me once too. I didn't even dream like in normal sleep.

So my question is, if I lose all awareness of time and thought during anesthesia, is that evidence that consciousness depends on brain? How can that be? I'm sure the skeptics will use that to argue that consciousness does not survive death, right?

How would you explain this?

Also, why does my awareness disappear during normal sleep? How can my soul or consciousness be switched off like a light switch? Can you explain this?

It does seem that when you dream, time doesn't pass in a normal sequence like it does in waking consciousness. I wonder why that is. Do dreams take place in a realm where time doesn't operate as we know it?"[quote][/quote]

I've always wondered about this myself. I was knocked out and became completely unconscious for I had no memories or recollection of anything during those times until I became awake again. I don't even remember most of my dreams but when I do dream I get dandies. I also wonder why only 20% of people near death report having any experiences.

One possibility I can think of comes from Ron Pearson's Grid Theory of consciousness. According to this the cosmic consciousness aka supermind of outer space has itself divided into different sections which are seperated from each other via an information filter barrier. Our bodies have a 'brain-mind' in which our consciousness is experienced through. Even in 'death' a replica of our 'brain-mind' is created so we can experience our consciousness from its source (the intelligent ether) in a new brain-mind that is made for the different matter system that awaits most people upon their deaths. I guess this could be comparable to a broken radio, the radio may malfunction but the signal is still there. I'm not sure but it's one theory maybe. Of course we already know what the other theory is. :lol:
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 28 Jan 2011, 20:59

Paradox wrote:To believers of the soul and afterlife:

"I have a question for you about consciousness and the brain that I'm wrestling with. Maybe you can shed some light on it.

During anesthesia, most people black out. They don't even dream. They lose all awareness until they wake up later. That happened to me once too. I didn't even dream like in normal sleep.

I can't find anything to confirm my suspicions about anesthesia but I have had plenty of personal experience with it. I've had both gas and intravenous to be more precise but I don't know which chemicals were actually used in the process. I believe that the dreaming or not dreaming has to do with the how deep they put you under. The higher the dose, the higher the chances of remembering squat when they bring you out of it.

So my question is, if I lose all awareness of time and thought during anesthesia, is that evidence that consciousness depends on brain? How can that be? I'm sure the skeptics will use that to argue that consciousness does not survive death, right?

How would you explain this?

I'll add something to the mix here. What about people who are completely out during an operation and something goes haywire and they experience NDE and can recall that part?
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby really? » 28 Jan 2011, 22:51

Paradox wrote:One possibility I can think of comes from Ron Pearson's Grid Theory of consciousness. According to this the cosmic consciousness aka supermind of outer space has itself divided into different sections which are seperated from each other via an information filter barrier. Our bodies have a 'brain-mind' in which our consciousness is experienced through. Even in 'death' a replica of our 'brain-mind' is created so we can experience our consciousness from its source (the intelligent ether) in a new brain-mind that is made for the different matter system that awaits most people upon their deaths. I guess this could be comparable to a broken radio, the radio may malfunction but the signal is still there. I'm not sure but it's one theory maybe. Of course we already know what the other theory is. :lol:


New Age nonsense
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Paradox » 30 Jan 2011, 15:16

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Paradox wrote:To believers of the soul and afterlife:

"I have a question for you about consciousness and the brain that I'm wrestling with. Maybe you can shed some light on it.

During anesthesia, most people black out. They don't even dream. They lose all awareness until they wake up later. That happened to me once too. I didn't even dream like in normal sleep.

I can't find anything to confirm my suspicions about anesthesia but I have had plenty of personal experience with it. I've had both gas and intravenous to be more precise but I don't know which chemicals were actually used in the process. I believe that the dreaming or not dreaming has to do with the how deep they put you under. The higher the dose, the higher the chances of remembering squat when they bring you out of it.

So my question is, if I lose all awareness of time and thought during anesthesia, is that evidence that consciousness depends on brain? How can that be? I'm sure the skeptics will use that to argue that consciousness does not survive death, right?

How would you explain this?

I'll add something to the mix here. What about people who are completely out during an operation and something goes haywire and they experience NDE and can recall that part?


I was actually trying to quote what Scepcop asked but I did it wrong. I hope I'm doing it the right way now.
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Paradox » 30 Jan 2011, 15:26

really? wrote:
Paradox wrote:One possibility I can think of comes from Ron Pearson's Grid Theory of consciousness. According to this the cosmic consciousness aka supermind of outer space has itself divided into different sections which are seperated from each other via an information filter barrier. Our bodies have a 'brain-mind' in which our consciousness is experienced through. Even in 'death' a replica of our 'brain-mind' is created so we can experience our consciousness from its source (the intelligent ether) in a new brain-mind that is made for the different matter system that awaits most people upon their deaths. I guess this could be comparable to a broken radio, the radio may malfunction but the signal is still there. I'm not sure but it's one theory maybe. Of course we already know what the other theory is. :lol:


New Age nonsense


There is nothing 'New Age' about anything written in Ron Pearson's books. Did you actually read any of his books before resorting to your pathetic labeling? There is definitely something going here with regards to near death experiences as so brilliantly pointed out by several others on this thread. I suppose any attempted explaination outside of a more 'rational' physicalist one to describe near death experiences would be considered 'new age nonsense' from so-called 'skeptics' now wouldn't it?
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby really? » 31 Jan 2011, 11:28

Paradox wrote:One possibility I can think of comes from Ron Pearson's Grid Theory of consciousness. According to this the cosmic consciousness aka supermind of outer space has itself divided into different sections which are seperated from each other via an information filter barrier. Our bodies have a 'brain-mind' in which our consciousness is experienced through. Even in 'death' a replica of our 'brain-mind' is created so we can experience our consciousness from its source (the intelligent ether) in a new brain-mind that is made for the different matter system that awaits most people upon their deaths. I guess this could be comparable to a broken radio, the radio may malfunction but the signal is still there. I'm not sure but it's one theory maybe. Of course we already know what the other theory is. :lol:


New Age nonsense

Paradox wrote:There is nothing 'New Age' about anything written in Ron Pearson's books. Did you actually read any of his books before resorting to your pathetic labeling? There is definitely something going here with regards to near death experiences as so brilliantly pointed out by several others on this thread. I suppose any attempted explaination outside of a more 'rational' physicalist one to describe near death experiences would be considered 'new age nonsense' from so-called 'skeptics' now wouldn't it?

Pearson can say or claim anything he wants, but he's going to have a very hard time proving it's more than just wishful thinking.
Btw, cosmic consciousness jargon is what indicates this is New Age.
I don't really need to read anything he's written because I've heard it all before from other people claiming the same thing. Make no mistake I'm not some babe in the woods.
You might want to brush up on what the term New Age encompasses. It covers a broad range of ideas and beliefs one of which is cosmic consciousness. You might like to read this online book titled Understanding the New Age http://www.ccel.us/newage.toc.html
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Paradox » 31 Jan 2011, 13:33

really? wrote:
Paradox wrote:One possibility I can think of comes from Ron Pearson's Grid Theory of consciousness. According to this the cosmic consciousness aka supermind of outer space has itself divided into different sections which are seperated from each other via an information filter barrier. Our bodies have a 'brain-mind' in which our consciousness is experienced through. Even in 'death' a replica of our 'brain-mind' is created so we can experience our consciousness from its source (the intelligent ether) in a new brain-mind that is made for the different matter system that awaits most people upon their deaths. I guess this could be comparable to a broken radio, the radio may malfunction but the signal is still there. I'm not sure but it's one theory maybe. Of course we already know what the other theory is. :lol:


New Age nonsense

Paradox wrote:There is nothing 'New Age' about anything written in Ron Pearson's books. Did you actually read any of his books before resorting to your pathetic labeling? There is definitely something going here with regards to near death experiences as so brilliantly pointed out by several others on this thread. I suppose any attempted explaination outside of a more 'rational' physicalist one to describe near death experiences would be considered 'new age nonsense' from so-called 'skeptics' now wouldn't it?

Pearson can say or claim anything he wants, but he's going to have a very hard time proving it's more than just wishful thinking.
Btw, cosmic consciousness jargon is what indicates this is New Age.
I don't really need to read anything he's written because I've heard it all before from other people claiming the same thing. Make no mistake I'm not some babe in the woods.
You might want to brush up on what the term New Age encompasses. It covers a broad range of ideas and beliefs one of which is cosmic consciousness. You might like to read this online book titled Understanding the New Age http://www.ccel.us/newage.toc.html


The term 'New Age' is irrelevant here. If near death experiences are really experiences where consciousness temporary leaves the physical brain until resuscitation then trying to post a label on a subject such as this using terms such as new age nonsense, paranormal, pseudoscience or whatever other term suits you shows you can't have an intelligable discussion about anything related to psi with such a person. No need to investigate because the topic of near death experiences has already been 'debunked' by physicalist scientists.

Again like I've said above if consciousness really does temporary leave the brain until resuscitation following a near death experience then anything that attempts to describe what is going on here can't be called a derogatory term such as 'nonsense' like so many cynical debaters tend to do. If near death experiences are a real spiritual experience than there is nothing that could be considered 'nonsense' about them then. If spirituality is just as part of physics or science then there is nothing 'nonsensical' about it.
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby really? » 31 Jan 2011, 23:19

Paradox wrote:
really? wrote:
Paradox wrote:One possibility I can think of comes from Ron Pearson's Grid Theory of consciousness. According to this the cosmic consciousness aka supermind of outer space has itself divided into different sections which are seperated from each other via an information filter barrier. Our bodies have a 'brain-mind' in which our consciousness is experienced through. Even in 'death' a replica of our 'brain-mind' is created so we can experience our consciousness from its source (the intelligent ether) in a new brain-mind that is made for the different matter system that awaits most people upon their deaths. I guess this could be comparable to a broken radio, the radio may malfunction but the signal is still there. I'm not sure but it's one theory maybe. Of course we already know what the other theory is. :lol:


New Age nonsense

Paradox wrote:There is nothing 'New Age' about anything written in Ron Pearson's books. Did you actually read any of his books before resorting to your pathetic labeling? There is definitely something going here with regards to near death experiences as so brilliantly pointed out by several others on this thread. I suppose any attempted explaination outside of a more 'rational' physicalist one to describe near death experiences would be considered 'new age nonsense' from so-called 'skeptics' now wouldn't it?

Pearson can say or claim anything he wants, but he's going to have a very hard time proving it's more than just wishful thinking.
Btw, cosmic consciousness jargon is what indicates this is New Age.
I don't really need to read anything he's written because I've heard it all before from other people claiming the same thing. Make no mistake I'm not some babe in the woods.
You might want to brush up on what the term New Age encompasses. It covers a broad range of ideas and beliefs one of which is cosmic consciousness. You might like to read this online book titled Understanding the New Age http://www.ccel.us/newage.toc.html


The term 'New Age' is irrelevant here. If near death experiences are really experiences where consciousness temporary leaves the physical brain until resuscitation then trying to post a label on a subject such as this using terms such as new age nonsense, paranormal, pseudoscience or whatever other term suits you shows you can't have an intelligable discussion about anything related to psi with such a person. No need to investigate because the topic of near death experiences has already been 'debunked' by physicalist scientists.

Again like I've said above if consciousness really does temporary leave the brain until resuscitation following a near death experience then anything that attempts to describe what is going on here can't be called a derogatory term such as 'nonsense' like so many cynical debaters tend to do. If near death experiences are a real spiritual experience than there is nothing that could be considered 'nonsense' about them then. If spirituality is just as part of physics or science then there is nothing 'nonsensical' about it.


If. It's the hallmark of the New Age and you use that far too much in this reply. You instead should say I'm certain consciousness can leave the brain.

Anyway what Pearson writes specifically to what you quoted is still New Age and it's nonsense because it requires one at least to suspend their disbelief.
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Arouet » 31 Jan 2011, 23:23

really? wrote:[color=#000080]If. It's the hallmark of the New Age and you use that far too much in this reply. You instead should say I'm certain consciousness can leave the brain.


I don't know anything about Pearson, but certainly "certainty" is not the standard we're striving for in almost any hypothesis. Certainty is very hard to achieve. I prefer to deal in likelihoods and probabilities.
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby really? » 01 Feb 2011, 05:01

Arouet wrote:
really? wrote:[color=#000080]If. It's the hallmark of the New Age and you use that far too much in this reply. You instead should say I'm certain consciousness can leave the brain.


I don't know anything about Pearson, but certainly "certainty" is not the standard we're striving for in almost any hypothesis. Certainty is very hard to achieve. I prefer to deal in likelihoods and probabilities.


It's subtle distinction I've noted many times on various forums. The if word is used yet the position they present with the rest of what they say points to a certainty on their part. It doesn't denote the uncertainty it should. When you or I use it we use it to indicate uncertainty without the implications of this is what I really think .

I don't know a thing about Pearson either. I wonder why Paradox holds this fellow in such high esteem ?
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Arouet » 01 Feb 2011, 05:21

really? wrote:
Arouet wrote:
really? wrote:[color=#000080]If. It's the hallmark of the New Age and you use that far too much in this reply. You instead should say I'm certain consciousness can leave the brain.


I don't know anything about Pearson, but certainly "certainty" is not the standard we're striving for in almost any hypothesis. Certainty is very hard to achieve. I prefer to deal in likelihoods and probabilities.


It's subtle distinction I've noted many times on various forums. The if word is used yet the position they present with the rest of what they say points to a certainty on their part. It doesn't denote the uncertainty it should. When you or I use it we use it to indicate uncertainty without the implications of this is what I really think .

I don't know a thing about Pearson either. I wonder why Paradox holds this fellow in such high esteem ?



I get it: you weren't saying that he SHOULD say that he's certain. You were saying that he was writing as if he was actually certain.
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Re: Near-Death Experiences Explained?

Postby Paradox » 02 Feb 2011, 15:03

really? wrote:
Arouet wrote:
really? wrote:[color=#000080]If. It's the hallmark of the New Age and you use that far too much in this reply. You instead should say I'm certain consciousness can leave the brain.


I don't know anything about Pearson, but certainly "certainty" is not the standard we're striving for in almost any hypothesis. Certainty is very hard to achieve. I prefer to deal in likelihoods and probabilities.


It's subtle distinction I've noted many times on various forums. The if word is used yet the position they present with the rest of what they say points to a certainty on their part. It doesn't denote the uncertainty it should. When you or I use it we use it to indicate uncertainty without the implications of this is what I really think .

I don't know a thing about Pearson either. I wonder why Paradox holds this fellow in such high esteem ?


I was hoping to avoid jumping off topic here but I did try to stick to the question by offering a potential explaination of near death experiences. I take Pearson in high regards after reading so many different philosophies on the topic of psi and life after death for a specific reason and it didn't come easily.

First off Ron Pearson is a very brilliant scientist and engineer. He invented the gas wave turbine engine. He knows a very lot about physics, Newtons Laws, thermodynamics, astronomy and quantum electrodynamics. He has the support of several very respected scientists and physicists. He is not some nonscience based new age peddler. His Big Breed Theory is the only hypothesis that is strong mathematically, ATTEMPTS to explain the origin of the universe and matter systems AND combines this with psi and afterlife realms. He has pioneered an ECM or 'exact classical mechanics' theory that attempts to combine Einstein's Relativity Theories with Quantum Theory. He (Pearson) is 'fringe' (most likely why very few have heard of him) but if you pay attention to his theories and fully investigate them you'll find they're very mathematically strong and I havn't found any internal predictions with his theories unlike with Penrose or Josephson amongst others.

I will admit that parts of Pearson's theories are speculation such as implying how the universe could of formed from nothing, how a supermind or conscious intelligence aka 'creator' could have evolved after several hundred billions of years a self awareness within the neural networking structure of the 'i-ther' (intelligent ether) aka 'dark energy'. He even explains what dark energy really is. His theory is a revised version of Newtonian mechanics with the added concept of 'negative mass' with 'negative energy' characteristics. He combines the Chaos Theory by John Gribbons in with this very well. I'm not going to write and argue anymore on this but 4 of his 6 books are very technical and at least some knowledge of physics, quantum physics, big bang theory and mathematical formulas are required to fully understand and appreciate his books but he does have two books out for the layperson. Yes there is a reason why I'm so big on Pearson, it's because unlike many others who love to condemn without investigating I've actually read most of his books and payed attention to them. If none of you have done this or are willing to do this then why question me to begin with on being so animate about his hypothesis? Why do so many of you hold Michael Shermer in such high regards?
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