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Pat Flynn - Is he a scam? Does he make what he claims?

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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby ProfWag » 18 Dec 2011, 11:38

Scepcop wrote:You guys,
Rather than speculate based on your experiences, or generalize, why don't you visit the guy's website yourselves and judge him on an individual basis?

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com

Try it and let me know what you think. Objective direct inquiry is the only way we are going to get somewhere. Don't just sit and speculate. Good investigators don't do that. They look at the evidence directly.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in this subject so I won't be spending my valuable time on this one. Glad to see you have a skeptical outlook on something though Winston!
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2 quotes about the insanity of working

Postby Scepcop » 18 Dec 2011, 18:00

For those of you trying to be your own boss, here are some great inspirational quotes I found that justifies your venture as being sane and rational.

"What's the point of working to make a living, if most of your living consists of working?" - Pat Flynn, Internet Marketing Guru

"When you work for someone, you trade time for dollars. But if you invest your time into creating a business, you produce a cash flow operation that works for YOU!" - Pat Flynn, Internet Marketing Guru

So true when you think about it, isn't it? And it makes so much sense too. Why live as a slave, instead of trying to find a way out of it so you can be free?

Feel free to forward these quotes to everyone you know.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 18 Dec 2011, 18:01

Arouet wrote:You have an affiliate deal with this guy Scepcop? :)


Of course not. If I did, I wouldn't be criticizing him or challenging his claims, on a public forum. Look at his letter to me above. Does that sound like someone who's working with me? lol. Think about it. Now you are sounding like a conspiracy wacko. ;)
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 18 Dec 2011, 18:56

Here is a post I wrote on the David Icke forum about why making money online is simple in concept, but not in practice:

"It's only simple in concept. But in practice, it's another matter. You have to offer something that people are willing to pay for, such as a product or a service. Or you have to have very good content on your website that draws traffic so you can put ads on it and make money, and affiliate commissions too.

This site is a good example of a site with great content that draws a ton of traffic and makes good ad revenue. It also offers David Icke's books, which his fans are willing to pay for, and makes money from that too. So it offers content and products.

Not everyone can just start a site and do that. It's not that easy in practice. Sure someone can blog about something that interests them, but that's not enough, because for every topic there are many other sites out there that are better, and you can't compete with them, so you won't get enough traffic, etc. For example, if you blog about cooking, there are many other blogs and sites out there that are established in cooking, which you as a newcomer could never compete with. So you will not get enough traffic to make money off of.

Or you can do a niche topic or unique one. That's what I did. I started two very unique sites, so that there was no competition. I also had a pre-existing email list and fan base to direct to my new sites. And that worked for me.

If I didn't pick a unique topic or idea, I would not have been able to compete with others sites out there. For example, there are already many conspiracy sites, such as this one, so a new one wouldn't have a good chance of becoming too popular.

But it was all slow and gradual, not dramatic as the internet marketing gurus claim."
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 18 Dec 2011, 23:13

You know, I just re-read Pat Flynn's response to me above. And I get the impression that what he is saying is: "It's ok and natural to be skeptical, as long as you believe me when I reassure you that I'm telling the truth about everything."

Hmmm. ::: scratching head ::: I don't know about you, but that sounds a bit circular doesn't it? I mean, think about it. EVERYONE in the world will tell you that they are not a con artist or liar. Everyone. So then who is a con artist then? lol. I mean, if you believe what you hear, then there is no such thing as a con artist or a liar in the world right? They don't exist right? lol. Everyone claims not to be one, after all. This is a lesson in gullibility and critical thinking.

Likewise, every MLM, including Amway, will say, "We are not a pyramid scheme. We are a legitimate business opportunity." ALL of them will say that. They all acknowledge that there are pyramid schemes out there, but each one of them is not one of them. lol. So, if we are to believe whatever they say, then pyramid schemes don't exist right? lol You see what happens when you believe whatever people tell you?

One time, I went to a timeshare presentation in Sedona, Arizona. At the beginning of the presentation, the speaker told everyone, "Don't you hate those high pressure timeshare sales presentations?" and everyone nodded. Then he said, "Well we aren't like that here. We are different." But what do you think happened right after that? Yep, you guessed it! They proceeded to be exactly that - a high pressure timeshare sales presentation! They badgered me, wouldn't take no for an answer, and then ended up insulting me! What fricking hypocrites! Playing cheap tricks to make us think they were different. That was so deceptive and low.

The lesson is: DON'T BELIEVE WHATEVER YOU HEAR! QUESTION EVERYTHING! LEST YOU BE TAKEN IN!

Btw, I asked a friend of mine who is a retired mental health counselor about Pat Flynn's response above, and here was his response:

--I believe he's sincere in his insincerity. This making of passive income via the Internet is not a subject I know a lot about but I read this guy's letter to you and my gut feeling from it was that he is, at heart, a con artist who knows all the right things to say. If he is making this much money, which I also find hard to believe, then he is probably making it by conning others into thinking they, too, can make this large sum of money. You might ask him to provide you with copies of his income tax returns---they do not lie (or should not, lol). I believe this man is VERY skilled at duping and inveigling others into believing he is a sincere person. At heart, I don't believe he gives two shits about anyone other than himself. Keep in mind this is just my intuition and not based on any real knowledge of him or his business affairs--it is based on my estimation of his writing.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Craig Browning » 19 Dec 2011, 00:38

I have a dear friend that's 2nd Generation Amway Hustler. His family has made hundreds of thousands of dollars from it but guess what. . . it's still a con! Especially now days, it's little more than a mega warehouse store on line selling common goods in bulk rather than producing their own products (many of which were actually great!)

There is absolutely no "good" reason to fall for this kind of hustle, Scepcop -- NONE! It is modeled after all the other "get rich today" programs even using some of the same buzz lines and testimonial styles. The dude pulls in his big bucks selling a dream just like Image Consultants and any number of other fast talker will do (quick! It's Sunday Morning, there's a flock of them selling hope and opportunity on Tv this morning).
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby NinjaPuppy » 19 Dec 2011, 07:20

It's tough to come into this convo with two pages already going so I'll start off with this:

I have a dear friend that's 2nd Generation Amway Hustler. His family has made hundreds of thousands of dollars from it but guess what. . . it's still a con! Especially now days, it's little more than a mega warehouse store on line selling common goods in bulk rather than producing their own products (many of which were actually great!)

How is this a con? It's products (albeit good or bad) being sold.

Same question for what Pat Flynn is doing here. How is it a con? He's selling an ebook and you're buying an ebook. That's pretty straight forward. The quality of the information in any book does not change anything. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

He tells you what to do such as write a blog, get going on facebook and set up a website. He covers most of that info fairly well and supplies easy to understand videos. No con there. Just some useful information that pertains to his business and possibly yours if you pay attention and have half a brain.

The only thing that is missing here is the 'thing' that's gonna make you the big bucks. Without an area of expertise or interest, you're pretty much screwed to make any money.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby NinjaPuppy » 19 Dec 2011, 07:28

Scepcop wrote:If I didn't pick a unique topic or idea, I would not have been able to compete with others sites out there. For example, there are already many conspiracy sites, such as this one, so a new one wouldn't have a good chance of becoming too popular.

But it was all slow and gradual, not dramatic as the internet marketing gurus claim."


I'd venture to guess that slow and gradual is the norm.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby ProfWag » 19 Dec 2011, 21:46

Scepcop wrote:Hmmm. ::: scratching head ::: I don't know about you, but that sounds a bit circular doesn't it? I mean, think about it. EVERYONE in the world will tell you that they are not a con artist or liar. Everyone. So then who is a con artist then? lol. I mean, if you believe what you hear, then there is no such thing as a con artist or a liar in the world right? They don't exist right? lol. Everyone claims not to be one, after all. This is a lesson in gullibility and critical thinking.

Are you sure this is Scepcop writing this? The same person that lives and breathes by the words of David Icke, Darryl Sloan, Jarrah White, and Richard Gage?
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 21 Dec 2011, 01:02

NinjaPuppy wrote:It's tough to come into this convo with two pages already going so I'll start off with this:

I have a dear friend that's 2nd Generation Amway Hustler. His family has made hundreds of thousands of dollars from it but guess what. . . it's still a con! Especially now days, it's little more than a mega warehouse store on line selling common goods in bulk rather than producing their own products (many of which were actually great!)

How is this a con? It's products (albeit good or bad) being sold.

Same question for what Pat Flynn is doing here. How is it a con? He's selling an ebook and you're buying an ebook. That's pretty straight forward. The quality of the information in any book does not change anything. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

He tells you what to do such as write a blog, get going on facebook and set up a website. He covers most of that info fairly well and supplies easy to understand videos. No con there. Just some useful information that pertains to his business and possibly yours if you pay attention and have half a brain.

The only thing that is missing here is the 'thing' that's gonna make you the big bucks. Without an area of expertise or interest, you're pretty much screwed to make any money.


In one of my analysis posts above, I explained why Pat might be a little deceptive. I'm sure he makes good money from all the traffic on his site, but his claim to be making $8,000 in the first month is very farfetched. As you said in your other post, making online passive income is a slow gradual process. Well obviously it wasn't for him. Plus, if he isn't successful in his other online businesses, and only making money by teaching others how to make money, then that is shady, kind of like how an MLM operates. See my reasons in the post above.

As to Amway, there are many websites, articles and books about why it's a con. If you see the MLM thread in this forum, I've posted a Dateline NBC report about why Amway is a con. You can also see my essay debunking MLM's mathematically here: http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/MLM.htm
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 21 Dec 2011, 01:06

ProfWag wrote:
Scepcop wrote:Hmmm. ::: scratching head ::: I don't know about you, but that sounds a bit circular doesn't it? I mean, think about it. EVERYONE in the world will tell you that they are not a con artist or liar. Everyone. So then who is a con artist then? lol. I mean, if you believe what you hear, then there is no such thing as a con artist or a liar in the world right? They don't exist right? lol. Everyone claims not to be one, after all. This is a lesson in gullibility and critical thinking.

Are you sure this is Scepcop writing this? The same person that lives and breathes by the words of David Icke, Darryl Sloan, Jarrah White, and Richard Gage?


Actually, you don't know Darryl Sloan. In a lot of ways, he is one of you guys. Check out his recent brilliant debunking of miracles in the Bible. It's on par with the most brilliant arguments that Atheists use to debunk the Bible.



If you watch that, you will gain a whole new respect for him. Also, in his earlier video, he explained why miracles in general were logically impossible in our physical universe. I'm sure you will like his reasoning there too.

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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Arouet » 21 Dec 2011, 01:17

If he thinks miracles are logically impossible I doubt I'll like his reasoning. Ok, I'll listen:

Miracles aren't real because no-one has regrown a finger or an arm? How does that follow? If there is some being performing miracles, who is to say what they will or won't heal, or what they can or can't heal?

He suggest that since arms and fingers haven't regrown, therefore an eye can't be healed either. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premises. I agree that miracles most likely have never happened, but his logical argument is not sound.

I also didn't hear him say that miracles were logically impossible.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Craig Browning » 21 Dec 2011, 02:58

How did the Sloan slug ooze into this thread? :shock:

The thing so many folks forget about "Miracles" is that they aren't "the norm" which is why we call them "Miracles" -- they are a seeming exception to the rule(s). We live in a world filled with miracles, some greater than others, but they are right in front of us; everything from Space Flight and DNA research to things as simple as gardening or helping someone overcome some kind of life altering trauma, etc.

I have serious doubts someone will grow back a leg, but many have grown back Tonsils, their Appendix and there are even instances in which Lung & Liver tissue has regrown to significant degrees, all before we started experimenting with such cultivation.

I really feel sorry for folks that can't or refuse to see the miraculous. I'm not talking about drama things like parting the seas or raising the dead, but the simpler things in life that allow us to know that there is far more to life than we will ever be able to explain or fully comprehend; realizing that we are still the monad and it's perfectly ok to be such.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 23 Dec 2011, 14:46

Arouet wrote:If he thinks miracles are logically impossible I doubt I'll like his reasoning. Ok, I'll listen:

Miracles aren't real because no-one has regrown a finger or an arm? How does that follow? If there is some being performing miracles, who is to say what they will or won't heal, or what they can or can't heal?

He suggest that since arms and fingers haven't regrown, therefore an eye can't be healed either. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premises. I agree that miracles most likely have never happened, but his logical argument is not sound.

I also didn't hear him say that miracles were logically impossible.


He was giving logical reasons for saying that. What doesn't follow? His logic is sound here. Do you even understand what he is saying? This guy is taking your side for once, and yet you still find something to debate? Are you playing devil's advocate?

If miracles were possible, then why hasn't anyone been able to grow body parts back? Can you explain that one? Assume you were a believer in miracles. How would you explain that?
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 23 Dec 2011, 14:53

Craig Browning wrote:How did the Sloan slug ooze into this thread? :shock:

The thing so many folks forget about "Miracles" is that they aren't "the norm" which is why we call them "Miracles" -- they are a seeming exception to the rule(s). We live in a world filled with miracles, some greater than others, but they are right in front of us; everything from Space Flight and DNA research to things as simple as gardening or helping someone overcome some kind of life altering trauma, etc.

I have serious doubts someone will grow back a leg, but many have grown back Tonsils, their Appendix and there are even instances in which Lung & Liver tissue has regrown to significant degrees, all before we started experimenting with such cultivation.

I really feel sorry for folks that can't or refuse to see the miraculous. I'm not talking about drama things like parting the seas or raising the dead, but the simpler things in life that allow us to know that there is far more to life than we will ever be able to explain or fully comprehend; realizing that we are still the monad and it's perfectly ok to be such.


Cause ProfWag used the Sloan thing to try to ridicule me. Miracles are not subjective. They are things that happen that defy the laws of physics and biology.

Why would someone be able to grow back an appendix but not a limb?

If miracles were possible, why would there be limits?
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