Discuss Philosophical or Psychological subjects and topics.
Disclaimer: I am not posting this to troll, spam, or otherwise annoy. I post this for those who, like me, might find this highly intriguing and because I was hoping to find someone to analyse this with. Personally, I am less interested in debating its legitimacy (was he, wasn't he); though a very valid conversation, it is one I have already had at length. I am more interested in analyzing/discussing the specifics and general questions/tools/philosophies/impressions anyone gained while reading this or in the years following reading this.
The Revelations of an Elite Family Insider: http://www.scribd.com/doc/403303/The-Re ... sider-2005
This happened back in 2005, but is nevertheless quite fascinating and certainly worth a read if you have not already read it. Even if you have read it, and rolled your eyes at it the first time around, I recommend giving it a second look...perhaps your perspective has since changed, as mine have. I read this three times during three stages in my life. The first time, I was intrigued, but entirely too skeptical and (admittedly) ignorant to fully digest. As I developed as a person, I revisted Insider's words, able to now understand and fully process, and they were suddenly quite profound and only served to confirm many of my theories.
I would love to talk with anyone else who is at this stage in analysis and wants to further reflect via philosophical discussion.
I can be reached at: http://relentlessalarm.tumblr.com or by email at firstname.lastname@example.org.
I don't know if you're going to get many responses as your subject matter isn't mentioned in your post. We have had a few bad links (infected) in the past and most regulars simply won't click. Perhaps you can educate us slowly with more meat and potatoes?
Hopefully people can feel safe clicking through to a scribd.com link? It is a legit web service. It is simply a pdf of all questions and answers that occurred between the alleged "Elite Family Insider" and forum users at godlikeproductions.com. I figured the open-mindedness of people on this forum would result in more people who had read this and would have the interest in analyzing it or discussing it. There is nothing more involved than that. I am not involved in any communities online, so I do not have a built in group of skeptics to discuss this sort of philosophical ish with.
I hope someone will give it a chance. Whether you believe the legitimacy of the Insider or not, many interesting perspectives and topics were discussed that I'd be interested in elaborating on
I checked it out but without going to the one direct link, you're quite right, it does feel like some cat and mouse thing. I nominate Craig Browning to go and check it out as Craig is probably one of the few who can intelligently digest this stuff.
Who are you implying is the cat? Me or the "Insider"? If you are insinuating that I am only posting this in order to play some game...I'm not. I am genuinely intrigued by what was said and hoped to discuss it further.
Now if you meant the "Insider"? Perhaps. I strongly consider that it was quite likely a very intelligent, aware person who was playing a game of dialectics with the people on that forum (with some eye-roll worthy results). Personally, I was frustrated by the myopia of many of the questions asked and would have liked for someone to have done a better job of playing dialectics back.
You don't need to click the link I provided, that was just to make it easier to access. You can simply google "The Revelations of an Elite Family Insider" and you will see that this was a well-documented event that happened back in 2005. There are various pdf files online, someone even went through the trouble of creating an ebook/audio reading of the questions and answers. You might even be able to find all the text in the pdf I linked simply copied and pasted on other forums if you feel safer reading it that way.
I read a bit of this. Any reason to not consider this the work of a clever troll?
I'll give you one reason to: he mentions ruling families and in that list notes the "Hitlers". Hitler was self-made and didn't exactly leave heirs. Odd to include that last name with an "s" on the end.
Anyhow. I'm not saying it isn't mildly entertaining - maybe OP you can state your opinion of it and why you think it might be legit?
I don't have any reason to think it is legit in the sense that this person really is from some "ruling bloodline". I took it to be either a clever exercise in dialectics (not necessarily in order to "troll" but in order to inspire discussion/analysis), the truth, or something someone believed was true but is not (i.e., they are delusional even if clever).
As I stated in my original post, I am less interested in debating the legitimacy of the "insider" (personally- though feel free to debate otherwise obviously). I am more interested in attempting to answer or analyze the many (seemingly) rhetorical questions posed. I rambled on and on on my tumblr with questions it raised for me, but to list a few:
I should disclaim that my view of reality is quite open. By that I mean I consider many possibilities. I do not, however, take any of those possibilities as FACT. I do exercise logic in determining which possibilities are more likely, but that does not mean I do not simultaneously consider that what is most likely might not be TRUE. Thus, I enjoy considering alternative possibilities. For example, I am highly fascinated with string theory and higher dimensions beyond our third dimensional reality. Science is starting to back up this theory of existence of something outside our concrete understanding within this dimension.
Thus, taking on the presumption that Insider was legit (which he might not have been), then Earth is a prison. That then poses a number of follow up questions. If earth is a prison, why are we imprisoned here? Another presumption is that the "soul/life energy" exists outside of the body, the body being merely a tool that the soul uses to act upon this dimension. Taking those two presumptions, I have a number of interesting theories. Is our soul energy trapped in this lower dimension, like light trapped in a prism, either by choice or by way of punishment/rehabilitation?
And yes, I also consider that this might all just be bogus, we die, our body rots, there is no higher dimension, we have no soul, yadda yadda yadda. But I don't know either way, so it doesn't hurt to speculate/philosophize about it.
C'mon? Deep? You didn't find it pretty cookie-cutter from someone familiar with various new age philosophies, conspiracy theories, lizard people, etc?
I didn't actually. Other than on a few strong points - that there is a Divine "One" that is "Good" (which really is a basic principle/universal that can be attributed to most epistemologists, spiritualists, and religious people) and that Earth is a prison of sorts or worse, the strongest point I took from the alleged Insider was to disregard cookie-cutter philosophies (new age or otherwise led by supposed leaders), concrete 3D understandings, conspiracy theories, etc. of others and to form your own. It is honestly quite Platonic in that one should disregard opinions of others and focus more on developing philosophical understanding through the exercise of intuition derived from some universal Good called Knowledge.
The "Insider" was conversing with a forum full of many of those sorts you described (who asked obvious questions with obvious logic fallacies - i.e. unfortunately most people failed at taking advantage of the dialectic discourse being proffered). He come off to me as more of a philosopher, the type who would have been revered in Plato's day, but today would be called useless. He was calm and unwilling to associate with any specific "ology" or "ism".
Regardless, it really doesn't matter who Insider was or whether he was legit, a troll, or a nutter. Has anyone studied String Theory? If we are to believe string theory, then at the heart of matter is energy vibrating in another dimension creating the illusion of matter in our dimension. Think about liquids - the atoms are moving around, bouncing at higher speeds, but to us, we perceive with our finite senses - that there is a semi-solid matter that we can contain and shape, etc. Thus, if science and theoretical physics is starting to go down the same rabbit hole as philosophers have been exploring for years (which have been the theories bastardized and turned into moral allegories that have become religions - how we have passed on our idea knowledge through history), perhaps we should pause to consider what it means when we think of energy being trapped in matter and souls, conscience (because what is it that gives us Will to survive, to explore, to yearn?) what it is that can set aside selfish desires and Know, innately that something is Good or Bad? Like sounds waves, magnets, atoms, there is duality in everything within this dimension. It is simply fascinating to consider that our conscience might be energy that has the potential of transcending from this world of matter and exist elsewhere. The story we all heard of heaven and hell being metaphors for dimensional planes. The fall of Adam and Eve from Eden (Oneness) was due to individuality, ego, desire for free will. The problem with free will is that every individual has it, like waves, there is duality in consequences. The selfish free will of one will have negative consequences upon another, so on and so forth. Thus, the mere existence of free will and individuality in our dimension leads to the inevitability of evil (painful consequences to the imbalance of harmony as a result of self-serving, ego-driven actions of individuals).
These are just hypothetical and interesting for me to consider. Yes, I am aware there are many new age philosophies out there that ascribe to specific histories of human origin and conspiracy theories, but personally I have not associated with any (nor do I wish to be - specifics = facts...I don't like talking in facts when I am still in the hypothesis stage...especially when those specifics are often rather absurd sounding...no offense). To be frank, I hadn't considered any of this a month ago.
Also, admittedly at the moment, I am also high. That only explains my oversharing and inability to write complete sentences. I would stand by the theory of what I am attempting to convey while sober
Yes, that had crossed my mind from time to time as I was reading some of the individual responses. The overall impression that I got (about half way through) was that of a brilliant schizophrenic. Of course I am not qualified to go around and make an internet diagnosis (heck, I don't even know if I spelled that correctly) it's just what kept coming into my thought process. It's as if this person is attempting to create some sort of mental delusion of basic reality via a forum. I don't know if that's what OP is calling "dialect".
I am not positive what you are asking, but by dialectic I mean encouraging another to process for himself a conclusion rather than simply stating at him a conclusion. The benefit of such discourse is that the individual discovers truths for themselves. Have you ever been told by numerous people some bit of wise advice that you fail to truly appreciate or employ until you discover that wisdom yourself? We learn from mistakes, we learn by drawing our own conclusions and making our own choices. We do not truly learn by being told. We must discover. Dialectics is a way of providing another individual with the building blocks so that the individual can take those blocks and build the idea themselves.
A recent, personal example. I was visiting with an individual who was being loud and "uncouth" and more than likely bothering residents around him. We were inside of an apartment complex that was lacking in most luxury and amenities - what many would call very minimal. This individual shrugged and stated that they didn't care what the residents thought since they were "clearly poor" and therefore "clearly unsuccessful in their jobs" and therefore "clearly not an individual with any clout or importance or position to judge". My response was somewhat dialectic in that I asked him, "why do you presume the residents are poor? Why not assume they are humble and living in moderation? Why are people who are financially successful more worthy of your consideration?" I did not call out the inference to be made, I merely left the building blocks there for that individual to hopefully contemplate.
Does this make sense? My point regarding the alleged Insider is simply, does it matter who the asker is if in the asking the questions and points provide building blocks for others to choose (or not choose) to use in forming their own principles?
Also, I seriously doubt, if there is any affliction at play, that it is schizophrenia. There is a certain lack of logic and temperance and erratic belligerence that often goes along with the spoutings of those with genuinely diagnosable schizophrenia. In my experience.
I might consider schizotypal. However, I also argue that schizotypal is simply a catch all box for what we might otherwise deem creative genius or willingness to think outside the box (hell most heavy pot users would likely classify as schizotypal). That is perhaps an interesting debate in itself – is it crazy to believe that 1. the only reality is that which you can scientifically confirm here and now, given our limitations of understanding and limited perceptions or 2. is it more crazy to consider that there might be a reality beyond that which we can perceive with our five senses?
If the vast majority is content to watch shadows on a wall and that is all they know, my guess is that anyone, who threatens that status quo and ponders the merit of turning around to see if there something more beyond the cave, would be viewed as eccentric and crazy or “schizotypal”.
Take that as you will.
I was put off by the title of this thread. It looked "Iche-y," Another possibility that occured to me was it was an antisemetic rant about the Rothschild's
Then I Looked, and I refuse to be the first one to risk infection from any link on this site. (Or many others).
Now I have followed this thread two posts past your post quoted below, Relentless, and I suspect I would need weed to read it appreciatively, and my prayers to Rastafari haven't been working, but I'll try the link and follow this thread to the end.
Radically agnostic. Love the name, too, but I can't tell rather that means you are PerpetuallyParanoid or Broken Car Alarm.
"What's so Funny about Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
Yes. Thank you.
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