View Active Topics          View Your Posts          Latest 100 Topics          Switch to Mobile

Why our gut instinct is usually right

Discuss Philosophical or Psychological subjects and topics.

Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby Craig Browning » 10 Sep 2011, 23:31

NinjaPuppy
Finally! Yes, I am amazing

Hey, you use a black cat as your avatar, you have to be amazing (then again, I own a black cat so I’d naturally assume such things).

NinjaPuppy
Between two Craigs and at least 4 different yet similar discussions, I'm confused.

Don’t worry, you’re not alone.

Craig Weiler
Well, I am saying that if you hang around real psychics for a while and see how they operate, you should be able to identify a fraud without much trouble whether you are psychic or not. There are incompetents, but that is another story . . .


ProfWag
Well, since I'm not convinced that any psychic is "real," I guess I'll forever be in the dark. Dang it.


And so we see why so many Skeptics will never “Get It” – unwilling to invest themselves into learning about something they question from a first-hand perspective – unwilling to put at least as much time and study into the situation as they have study and review of its contrast. From a clinical perspective I’d say that not only ties in strongly with denial but fear – fear of possibly finding that their bias is a bit askew. Then again, that’s my opinion as well as that of many others based on our experiences in looking at things from a skeptics position and in so doing, discovering the converse to be closer to true. . . there are many things science can’t explain away and the “rational thinker” is thus, compelled to invent plausible explanations which are typically as fantasiful as they suggest PSI & other such phenomena are. But it’s their “out”.

Remove the whole idea we’ve been talking about – recognizing “real” psychics over the fakes – and simply immerse yourself into that world for a year of genuine dedication and without trying to logically analyze it all. Keep notes if you must, but be cautious when it comes to jumping to conclusions/knee-jerk assumption. As I’ve said before, become willing to be willing to learn something new, something that’s not as cut & dry as the world you think exists.

I know a lot of skeptics and very tough cynics. I know of none who’ve actually invested time into learning about genuine parapsychology let alone the occult and esoteric (metaphysical) spirituality, all of which is tied to the PSI and Magick issue.

Why? If you have the brass to denounce something of this sort; things that are quite personal and cherished by billions of people around the globe, why don’t you have the brass to actually learn about it and see it from within its own environs.

Yes, you will be bombarded by a wave of nut-jobs and airheads as well as the delusional – surface dirt! If you give things time however and choose to ignore the obviously delusional and what I call “escapists” (typically, the middle-aged soul that’s trying to find itself and ends up attending every workshop and believing everything they hear about that’s “fringe”) If you will wade through the muck, you will find the diamonds and perils Craig and I have been talking about. I promise you, many of these “enlightened” folk are far from being remotely in line with the typical image so many want a guru to fit; most such people I know come off as being a bit blunt with a good number of them having “habits” that would churn away at the gut of a New Age devotee. . . especially when it comes to the MEAT EATERS, heavy smokers and drinkers. But that’s another story and exist for other reasons.
User avatar
Craig Browning
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 05:20
Location: Northampton, MA

Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby NinjaPuppy » 11 Sep 2011, 03:38

Hey! I'm a MEAT EATER and heavy smoker...but I don't drink. Does that make me an Old Ager? :D
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44

Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby ProfWag » 11 Sep 2011, 05:00

Craig Browning wrote:ProfWag
Well, since I'm not convinced that any psychic is "real," I guess I'll forever be in the dark. Dang it.


And so we see why so many Skeptics will never “Get It” – unwilling to invest themselves into learning about something they question from a first-hand perspective – unwilling to put at least as much time and study into the situation as they have study and review of its contrast.

That's a pretty big assumption Craig, considering you only know me from this board. If you look back over the last few posts where I ask what a "real" psychic is, look at all 3 of your answers and tell me what a believer or skeptic alike was to determine the answer to my question. No one answered me about what I should even look for. No one said a "real" psychic could read minds. All I really got out of the conversation was that "real" psychics often had mental problems, they didn't seek out publicity, and that it takes one to know one. Really, out of years of looking into the psychic realm, all I've gathered about "real" psychics is that they are good at reading people's non-verbals and they are essentially unlicensed guidance counselors. I know there are a lot of people who call themselves "psychic" and honestly believe they are and don't commit fraud in their mind, but to me, that doesn't mean they have any more paranormal ability than the next person. So, why should I believe that a "real" psychic is any better than a top-notch fraud? It goes back to the experiments on psychic abilities and essentially, all we have been able to find is that there could be a slight, statistical anomoly.
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3846
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby NinjaPuppy » 11 Sep 2011, 06:19

Hey ProfWag... I sort of answered your question about 20 posts ago before I made my "chopped liver" comment and a 'Craig' gave you the word schizoptal and I looked up the word in Wikipedia and sort of got all snotty on Wikipedia's list of crap and Craig has tried to give his insight and the other Craig has given his insight.
ProfWag wrote:If you look back over the last few posts where I ask what a "real" psychic is, look at all 3 of your answers and tell me what a believer or skeptic alike was to determine the answer to my question. No one answered me about what I should even look for.

If it's a visual "look" that you want.... In my personal experience, it's big boobs. Every female that I know who claims any sort of insight has big boobs. We use them like satellite dishes to pick up signals.

Allow me to slaughter the Craigs words here, you have to have a bit of insight (psychic ability and or a fair amount of investigation into the subject) before you can form your own opinion about anyone persons possible abilities.

Medicine is a science that is taught and passed down from teacher to student. Some doctors 'get it' and some don't. Some are naturals when it comes to diagnosis and healing. Some of these trained professionals kill people due to poor judgement or other reasons. Who you choose as your medical professional can be a crap shoot. The same problems apply to anyone in just about any professional field, such as accountants, lawyers, teachers, etc. Put a few doctors in a room and the good ones will be able to pick out a crappy one in a heartbeat. They just know. They're not psychic, they're educated and trained and can make that judgement. Same with other walks of life.

Take moms and dads. No teaching or license necessary to become one. For some reason, something usually kicks in during pregnancy and birth that gives a woman what she needs to make sure that baby survives and thrives. Early motherhood is all trial and error and the cues come from both parties. The baby cries, the mom tries something. Baby doesn't stop crying, she tries something else and it goes on and morphs with time. Now put a few moms with their babies in a room together and the good moms can pick out the "bad" moms easily. A parent learns how to "cold read" that child but there are MANY instances when mothers/fathers just instictively know something is wrong without any contact or cues. Disclaimer: There are many men who can read an infant better than their spouse or who get these vibes when something is wrong. I tend to favor the mom side of things because I can relate better as I am not a man but certainly wouldn't claim that women are better at rasing a child than a man or have any extra special dose of insight.
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44

Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby Craig Browning » 12 Sep 2011, 01:46

If it's a visual "look" that you want.... In my personal experience, it's big boobs. Every female that I know who claims any sort of insight has big boobs. We use them like satellite dishes to pick up signals.

Haha… well, that’s unless they are a New Age type that’s into the pretty “I’m a Model” types that are big into Yoga, Running and the other healthy crap they’ll pay for in their latter years (no one every warns you about the pain and complications of an athletic youth) . You can find many a flat-chested gals plying their hand at the craft though the big breasted “Momma” types are always more popular (unfortunately, my meds are causing me to develop breasts, so maybe there is a connection???)

Allow me to slaughter the Craigs words here, you have to have a bit of insight (psychic ability and or a fair amount of investigation into the subject) before you can form your own opinion about anyone persons possible abilities.

NO. . . you just need to be exposed to the environment and learn how to study people. The majority will certainly come off as air-headed nut jobs in that they are in love with the idea of what they think being psychic is. . . few of them ever ponder what a psychic is not. Too, the majority are busy taking tons of workshops, going on this and that retreat and “searching” – it’s an eclectic mess! Exceptionally few have the discipline to focus and stick with one or two key topics or traditions for a year or two in order to actually learn from it and about it; learning to see it at the esoteric level vs. the typical exoteric manner. Human beings are as bad as magpies when it comes to being fascinated with the sparkle rather than the essence.

By enveloping yourself in the environment and actually participating in the sub-culture without a preconceived sense of expectation or expectation of any kind, one will slowly begin to notice the quiet ones. Over time some of these people will be drawn to you because your own energy stands out as being “different”. Just go with the flow and see where it takes you intellectually as well as emotionally; when the student is ready the teacher will appear to them but trust me when I say, it’s typically an underwhelming event – very “matter of fact”, at least in my experience.

Remember, we’re talking about less than 3% of the population that identifies with the Psychic/New Age type view of life – a very small minority, so it will take time but once you are able to shed that “doubting Thomas” chip from your shoulder (they can sense it), they do show-up and you will learn to see what it is we talk about. The catch is, you have to let go of your codependency of the tangible and analytical habits you tend to cling to.

Most of my friends that are analytically dependent usually find Buddhism as the better first step in these things because, technically speaking, Buddhism is an atheistic tradition in which understanding the pragmatic becomes the key to understanding and accepting the miraculous. Similarly, a study of intellectually Judaism and its more esoteric side (Kabbalah & Sefer Yetzerah) offers a very similar course of “inward” study in which the “Divine Altar” or “Holy of Holies” is found in one’s heart; each of us being the divine trinity in of ourselves; Mind = Father * Body = Son * Soul = Holy Spirit which can only be obtained by walking through the rites of passage and doing so in a very slow, deliberate manner.

This particular path brings us to Gnosticism which must be dealt with very carefully in that it is a relatively “new” ideology – an ancient idea that’s been rekindled in the past 50 years or so, because of the Nag Hamadi, Dead Sea and similar scroll discoveries. The public access to these scriptures have resulted in dozens of fringe group/cult births which makes me gun-shy and quite cautious when it comes to patronization of any one group for too long a period of time. Too, you must define which form of Gnosticism you wish to study in that you will find Jewish Gnostics, Gnostic Pagans as well as two or three different forms of Christian Gnosticism that is said to have come from the original traditions. . . there are less than a half-dozen known pseudo-gnostic traditions that have survived into our current age so approach with well-studied caution.

Medicine is a science that is taught and passed down from teacher to student. Some doctors 'get it' and some don't. Some are naturals when it comes to diagnosis and healing. Some of these trained professionals kill people due to poor judgement or other reasons. Who you choose as your medical professional can be a crap shoot. The same problems apply to anyone in just about any professional field, such as accountants, lawyers, teachers, etc. Put a few doctors in a room and the good ones will be able to pick out a crappy one in a heartbeat. They just know. They're not psychic, they're educated and trained and can make that judgement. Same with other walks of life.

Which is why I’m ever so grateful that my Neurosurgeon was at the top of his class and is still recognized as one of the top experts in the field of Neuro-science in the state?

Ever wonder what it would be like to have the dude operating on your spine prove out to be a D- student in med-school who rarely showed up for class?

I think I mentioned this before, how teaching my two step-sons a magician’s slight known as a “Back-Palm” (playing card control technique). The boys worked at it for hours and still had problems; their sister walks in, sees what to do and Wham! Did it perfectly every time after about two minutes worth of practice.

Take moms and dads. No teaching or license necessary to become one. For some reason, something usually kicks in during pregnancy and birth that gives a woman what she needs to make sure that baby survives and thrives. Early motherhood is all trial and error and the cues come from both parties. The baby cries, the mom tries something. Baby doesn't stop crying, she tries something else and it goes on and morphs with time. Now put a few moms with their babies in a room together and the good moms can pick out the "bad" moms easily. A parent learns how to "cold read" that child but there are MANY instances when mothers/fathers just instictively know something is wrong without any contact or cues.

I love this analogy, it is very much on spot.

Disclaimer: There are many men who can read an infant better than their spouse or who get these vibes when something is wrong. I tend to favor the mom side of things because I can relate better as I am not a man but certainly wouldn't claim that women are better at rasing a child than a man or have any extra special dose of insight.

Actually, many men (especially gay men) seem to have a stronger maternal sense about themselves than women. I believe to some extent that this is a recent “shift” given how our food is tampered with and how such things seem to be causing males (in particular) to become more effeminate in way of their emotions and perspective with things as well as certain physical phenomena that the FDA and other such groups keep down-playing given how it would hurt the Poultry & Beef industries (in particular).

As to ProfWag’s Response
I meant no real “insult” in my retort, merely pointing out how your preconceived ideas stifle your chances at even recognizing the “real thing” should you actually be near it and too, how they prevent you from being willing enough to be willing to jump into the proverbial pool for a swim and possibly learn something.

One of my dearest friends here in the area is a chemical engineer by trade and magic enthusiast. He gets confounded over how I can walk in on someone when I do Readings from stage or one-on-one and get the level of hits I get. He insists that “it’s all cold Reading” the famed Randi mantra when it truth, there is more to it all – more that he isn’t willing to listen to, learn about or have anything to do with. His attitude is on spot with the attitude of at least 95% of the self-professed skeptics I know in the magic world and out. Their favorite excuse being that “I don’t have to smoke crack to know what it will do to me. . . “ believing that to be one in the same, but it’s not, it’s just a cop-out.

The majority of skeptics refuse to honestly read any of the book titles I encourage them to study because, in their mind, it’s all bunk and there’s nothing to be learned by doing so. According to most clinical studies such contempt expressed prior to honest investigation is a form of fear and frankly, that’s how I have to look at it – we have a cult-mind situation that offers the same exact excuses and “explanations” time and again, just as they’ve done for most of the past three generations (it wasn’t always like this, the past 40 years really bringing about a dramatic shift in what is and isn’t a “Skeptic” and the views they “must” share).

Given how organized Craig W seems to be, I bet he has an inventory list of such typical slogans

My point is ProfWag, you are offering a stereotypical stance with things. I’m not judging you but rather the species habits common to the Skeptical Flinch and its social habits in the wild.
User avatar
Craig Browning
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 05:20
Location: Northampton, MA

Previous

Return to Philosophy / Psychology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest