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Why our gut instinct is usually right

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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby Arouet » 09 Sep 2011, 23:20

Might be an interesting topic but you might want to start a new thread for it...
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby NinjaPuppy » 09 Sep 2011, 23:25

ProfWag wrote:I sincerely want to thank both of you Craigs for honest answers. Unfortunately, I still don't know what you consider "real" psychics or what psychic abilities are.

What am I? Chopped liver? :lol: To answer your question, if you were psychic, then you would understand what/who is a "real" psychic.

ProfWag wrote:What I was looking for is what can they do? Do they read minds? Foretell the future? Give advice on personal matters? Talk to dead people? All of the above and more?

They do whatever it is that they do. I'd say that everyone has their own comfort range of abilities. Some ignore it, some cultivate it, some just go with the flow. Now the "dead people" thing must be an invididual preference. Personally, I don't find much conversation with dead people. Mostly because they're dead and except for "Weekend at Bernie's", they're not much fun to hang with and I'm told that they start to smell pretty fast.

ProfWag wrote:And, more importantly, at what confidence level do you give "real" psychics? As an example, if a psychic can foresee the future, do you consider them "real" if they are accurate 1 out of 10 times, 5 out of 10, or 10 out of 10?

Nobody's perfect. Since being psychic isn't a science for the sake of this discussion, my confidence level isn't an issue. I take what I need and leave the rest on a case by case basis. Face it, if I am claiming that I have some sort of psychic ability myself, I should be able to pick up on the vibes.

ProfWag wrote:Just what is it about a person that makes you consider them "real" psychics? If "real" psychics give advice on personal matters such as when they should change jobs, where they should put their money, etc.

Since I'm supposedly psychic, this sort of information is only a second opinion to me. It may confirm or deny what I already know or feel about a particular subject. What I do about it, based on any information, is always up to me.

ProfWag wrote:...then what is it about that "real" psychic that makes one go "wow, that was a real psychic?" How do you know that the comments from a "real" psychic weren't the result of an educated guess, coincidence, or luck?
Honey, life is a crapshoot no matter how you slice it. Most people are so self absorbed, they only hear what they want to hear depending on their frame of mind at the time. There is no real "wow" factor to anything psychic. If you're spot on, the skeptics will call it a "lucky guess", if your almost right, it's "cold reading". The only bright spot is when you're a fake, it eventually comes out somehow. Then it's open season on ALL psychics.

ProfWag wrote:When we discuss the evidence for "real" psychics, all we seem to be able to discuss are some controversial results for slight statistical anomolies in Ganzfield studies. As such, post after post of discussions on the topic, I still am unsure what should be considered a "real" psychic and what they can or can't do.

What a "real psychic" can or can't do is simple. Each one has different abilities and levels. A one hit wonder is the same as one that can consistently predict some funky shit that can't be explained with science. The quality of predictions can be as serious as a heart attack or completely mundane nonsense. There's no telling what a particular psychic might pick up on and decide to predict. It can be "woman's intuition", "gut instinct", "vibes", "spirit guides", "hallucinations" or that new word that I learned yesterday, "schizosomethingorother". Whatever you want to call it, it just "is".
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby NinjaPuppy » 09 Sep 2011, 23:26

Arouet wrote:Might be an interesting topic but you might want to start a new thread for it...

Not really. It all ties into the OP of "gut instinct".
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby craig weiler » 09 Sep 2011, 23:42

Hi Profwag,

Well, that's the million dollar question :roll: isn't it? Unfortunately, this is a mechanistic approach to something that really doesn't fit in that shoebox very well. In real life, this ability is simply blended in with the other senses so seamlessly to the point that even for psychics it is difficult to separate them. An acquaintance of mine refers to this as the "total readout." I suspect that this is why the ability shows so poorly in testing. It is unnatural to isolate it. It also improves with knowledge, which is admittedly frustrating for anyone who is trying to separate this skill out from a knowledgeable guess, but the fact is, the more you know about a subject, the better your psi will be in that area. I can look at people and get a sense for where they're hurting, but a doctor with a similar level of psychic ability would probably be able to give a rather detailed diagnosis. In fact, there are some anecdotal stories of this. I think in Russia they even have some medical psychics to help in diagnosis.

But I digress. You would need to test the general population for psychic ability and have a fairly substantial database to even begin to answer this question in any quantified way. This will give you numbers, but it still doesn't necessarily speak to who has the best psi. There seems to be a bit of a trade off of emotional stability for psychic ability so that when you're asking people to do a very stable activity, such as testing, the best won't respond very well. Testing is loaded with pressure, it is repetitive and stressful and isn't very interesting nor is there any emotional attachment. These things work against strong manifestations of psi.

As psychics evaluating psychics, we do what we do best; go by feel. Since we are so good at empathy, we look at how people are feeling. A person being psychic is quiet inside and a fraud is excessively noisy. A psychic has to turn inward and a fraud turns outward. A person well trained in body language could probably spot the difference, it's that obvious when you know what to look for.
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby Craig Browning » 10 Sep 2011, 00:03

1.) Inappropriate or constricted affect (the individual appears cold and aloof) -

I think this refers to what I’ve spoken about in the past; some of us are simply too sensitive and come off as being unsociable and aloof as well as snotty & arrogant. It’s actually a defensive thing; some of us can become violently ill under certain “crowded” conditions/social settings. For years I was known to break away from the crowds when working Psychic & Renaissance Fairs and find my own little quiet spot to work, I wasn’t alone in this. It’s not a matter of being anti-social however, it’s just what we must do in order to not feel overloaded by emotions or victimized by the “Psychic Vampires” in the world – those individuals that are so “hungry” and negative that they literally suck the life right out of you.

2.) Behaviour or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;

Not only is this a bit of type-casting, it sounds like they’re describing an old Drag Queen. . . Yes, SOME psychics are quite eccentric, flamboyant, etc. but this is not necessarily a common thing. In fact, most of the ones that stick out in this manner are fakes trying to generate attention and likewise stooping to some very old psychological ideology in which such expressions of strangeness “prove” they are “special”.
Yes, there are those very, very, very rare instances in which you have someone that is so disconnected from the mundane side of life that they simply “aren’t there” – they can check-in but even then it’s obvious their mind is elsewhere. This is one reason why autism has been linked to Psychic phenomena.

3.) Odd beliefs or magical thinking, influencing behaviour and inconsistent with subcultural norms;

The “Sub-cultural” influence tends to be a kind way of stereo-typing New Age elements, Paganism and even aspects of the more traditional faiths in which Metaphysics is a base line i.e. Science of Mind, Christian Science, etc. The idea that we can pray things away or draw them into our lives by burning a candle, etc. is just one side of this ASSUMPTION that’s been imposed upon our kind; critics rarely (if ever) realizing that the student of this world isn’t as dumb or gullible as they would like the world to believe . . . but there is an argument that the more analytical sub-culture is rife with its own form of Magickle thinking as well – the idea that Science knows all, sees all, is all for an example.

4.) Suspiciousness or paranoid ideas

I encourage folks to question both, authority and authorities. . . those that are typically self-claimed “experts” on this or that who in truth, tend to be little other than armchair commentators that barf up the same rhetoric their preachers told them to say earlier in their indoctrination to the cult-mind chapel

5.) Obsessive ruminations without inner resistance, often with dysmorphophobic, sexual or aggressive contents.

Another very ugly & biased statement of type-casting; the idea that all psychics have peculiar sexual propensities, “inner”/psychologically based OCD type dysfunctions and then we have the whole slam on “transgenderism” in that a large number of working psychics tend to be gay/effeminate men, some of which are even cross dressers and in some (very rare) cases, are literal hermaphrodites. You will likewise find someone that is outwardly one gender but identifies with the other, possibly to the point of enduring the process to change their gender assignment. But the dysmorphoophotic idea likewise refers to those in the psychic world that tend to have body image issues in general; look around are how many overweight Readers you can find. You’ll also find chronic smokers & drinkers in this world and very little of it has to do with self-hate (initially) but the act of grounding one’s self which food, booze & smoke tends to do.
At least that’s how I understand things.

6.) Unusual perceptual experiences including somatosensory (bodily) or other illusions, depersonalization or derealization

This seems to echo much of the above when it comes to the Somatotype issues but we live in a nation that is so obsessed with looks, the association here can apply to a good 75% of Americans. . . the illusory side of the issue being a #1 hit with middle-aged men that think they are still built like that 17 year old jock they were three decades previous.
This particular “indicator” is really dumb in that it applies to so many people that are “normal” – those that buy into the lies fed us daily by the marketing industry/corporate world when it comes to what we need, what defines us as being “someone” and “something” that matters. I really don’t see a lot of this in the psychic community though I see a lot of wannabes (usually teens & young adults) that try to project a surreal image. This is especially true of young Pagan types that want to look like something out of the film “the Craft” or worse “Twilight”

7.) Vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped thinking, manifested by odd speech or in other ways, without gross incoherence


Wow… how many MENSA members does this describe?

In other words, you will find odd balls in every possible community set, like the above this is a total non-issue because it can be applied to so many niche groups & their membership. What must be understood is that in every instance, such characters are an extreme exception and not the rule. I know kids that get so deep into Crowley, the Golden Dawn and the math, etc. tied to their rituals and work that they really seem to be outside of reality. It’s what happens with the desperate geek with an exceptional intellectual capacity that saturates themselves with occult lore, theory and sciences. But at the same time we see the exact same thing in the scholastic minded world, in which intelligent people CAN’T speak “human” – their views and what may seem elementary to them, simply stuns and numbs the common person which creates a chasm between them (the majority) and the odd guy out who can’t communicate on the layman’s level or even that of the novice.

8.) Occasional transient quasi-psychotic episodes with intense illusions, auditory or other hallucinations, and delusion-like ideas, usually occurring without external provocation.


This seems to have come directly from a Psychiatric Text in which any kind of religious/spiritual belief is instantly relegated to that column pertaining to one’s mental instability, especially schizophrenia. It is a deliberate bias created by an institution that wishes to take from humanity its dependence on things spiritual and replace it with the analytical. It is likewise a serious demonstration as to how the academic community does not want to see or even consider the possibility that such things may in fact have a genuine place within life & society.
Let’s face facts, when you are trained in this area and you find someone that is sensitive and able to discern details about others simply by touching them or a possession of theirs, you not only want to study it under your own microscope, you want to destroy the belief that individual has – force them to question their own sanity – for in doing so you are able to break-down the social acceptance of such phenomena. Like it or not, this is how most skeptics are viewed, especially those in Mental Health practice who, until the past 25 or so years, were stigmatized with being Satanic because of such attitudes & practices. Even now, much of the Abrahamic based world distrusts the areas of Psychology/Psychiatry because of this type of assumptive pigeon-holing.

ProfWag
I sincerely want to thank both of you Craigs for honest answers. Unfortunately, I still don't know what you consider "real" psychics or what psychic abilities are. What I was looking for is what can they do? Do they read minds? Foretell the future? Give advice on personal matters? Talk to dead people? All of the above and more? And, more importantly, at what confidence level do you give "real" psychics? As an example, if a psychic can foresee the future, do you consider them "real" if they are accurate 1 out of 10 times, 5 out of 10, or 10 out of 10? Just what is it about a person that makes you consider them "real" psychics? If "real" psychics give advice on personal matters such as when they should change jobs, where they should put their money, etc., then what is it about that "real" psychic that makes one go "wow, that was a real psychic?" How do you know that the comments from a "real" psychic weren't the result of an educated guess, coincidence, or luck? When we discuss the evidence for "real" psychics, all we seem to be able to discuss are some controversial results for slight statistical anomolies in Ganzfield studies. As such, post after post of discussions on the topic, I still am unsure what should be considered a "real" psychic and what they can or can't do.

To be honest I can’t give you a pin-point explanation to this outside of the things I’ve shared over the past year; that most of those that I consider to be “real” are;

    Reticent when it comes to being in heavily populated areas
    The Do Not promote themselves or seek either fortune or fame
    They are not “show-offs” i.e. the sort that demand attention and try to demonstrate their abilities in public on a regular basis.
    Most believe what they do is an obligation/”calling” – an obligation of sorts.
    If they take money for their work it is always nominal but more than not, barter tends to be the norm
    They are exceptionally humble and even if they have the means, tend to live very simple/practical lives

These are just “qualities” that seem consistent in the folks I’ve researched, tested and gotten to know over the years. Every time I happen onto someone that does not fit at least four of the six traits I’ve noted, I will usually find one of two things; someone that’s deluded into thinking they are something they aren’t, or someone that is a deliberate hustler/predator thats been around the block a few times.

One other factor that I’ve found with those that I consider “real” is how we tend to “agree” on specific situations. I’m not talking about a philosophic discussion in which agreement happens but rather independent happenstance in which we, usually total strangers to one another in life, are having the same or similar “visions”, dreams, feelings, etc. I’ve touched on this when talking about the 9/11 situation that I shared with dozens of other sensitives across the nation but there is another way this sort of thing manifests. . .

A lady friend of mine in Ohio came to me for a Reading, she would not accept what I shared so she went down the road to another Reader and ended up with the same basic message. . . she went to a third Reader and again, got the same message. In two-days’ time she visited 7 different readers throughout the Dayton, Ohio area and every single one of them told her the exact same thing, the same timing on events, etc. It wasn’t the result of any kind of covert networking in that none of us knew one another let alone suspecting she was doing what she did.

Situations like this happen far more frequently than you’d think. When you discover them and see the constant around them you end up with one more reason to step back and admire how the Universe works and how science cannot explain this sort of thing away and how the Randi cult’s only explanation will be “It’s all Cold Reading” and refer you to Forer which is 1,000 light years off mark.

Where this anecdote relates more to the phenomenon of things Psychic rather than the individuals claiming such, it likewise demonstrates that there is far more to the issue than any series of experiments can cover. As I’ve said before I don’t understand the Gansfield stuff, not my area! Most of what I know is from first hand encounters and investigations; I weed out the criminals & predators as best I can and do my best to encourage, even those I believe to be potentially “real”, to see things from a more down-to-earth and critical perspective in that I don’t believe in boogiemen, angels that sit on one’s shoulder and so forth.

That's the best I've got.
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby craig weiler » 10 Sep 2011, 00:43

I was not aware of the Wikipedia definition of Schizotypal. It is wildly inaccurate and that is because it is undoubtedly very out of date.

Modern psychiatry recognizes many traits as normal that were once considered "off." For example, psychiatry now recognizes "flow" as essential to creativity. It seems that the whole field of psychology is becoming far more tolerant of different personalities as it gets away from the influence of Skinner and accumulates more data. In particular, the creative personality is now in vogue and there are many studies coming out examining the aspects of that personality. "Magical Thinking" can, of course, be found on that list.
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby ProfWag » 10 Sep 2011, 04:36

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:I sincerely want to thank both of you Craigs for honest answers. Unfortunately, I still don't know what you consider "real" psychics or what psychic abilities are.

What am I? Chopped liver? :lol:

Ohh, my bad Ninja. I thought you were just talking about schitzophrenics (sp? and too lazy to look it up) and I was looking for psychics. If they are one and the same, then my deepest apologies. Otherwise, I'm just very sorry I didn't include you as your opinion is just as important to me. Again, sorry.
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby ProfWag » 10 Sep 2011, 04:46

craig weiler wrote:A psychic has to turn inward and a fraud turns outward. A person well trained in body language could probably spot the difference, it's that obvious when you know what to look for.

Thank you again. I guess the skeptic in me turned straight to your quote above (I'll respond with more on the rest soon), but reading body language is in not very paranormal...
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby craig weiler » 10 Sep 2011, 05:33

No, reading body language is not very paranormal. Agreed. However what I am saying is that the body language of psychics and frauds is different enough to be noticeable by someone who can read body language.

As long as we're on the subject, this is one of areas where the lines blur because of that "total readout" thing. A psychic will normally both read body language and psychically tune into someone at the same time and the information will be totally mixed together to the point where you cannot tell where one ends and the other begins. I understand that this is not a satisfying answer to a skeptic. I'm just 'splainin'
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby ProfWag » 10 Sep 2011, 06:32

To summarize Craig B, Craig W, and the wonderful, extremely intelligent, and amazing NinjaPuppy (yes, sucking up for the earlier gaff), basically from what you all have said is that to identify a "real" psychic, it, well, "takes one to know one." Am I close? :)
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby NinjaPuppy » 10 Sep 2011, 06:35

ProfWag wrote:To summarize Craig B, Craig W, and the wonderful, extremely intelligent, and amazing NinjaPuppy (yes, sucking up for the earlier gaff), basically from what you all have said is that to identify a "real" psychic, it, well, "takes one to know one." Am I close? :)

Finally! Yes, I am amazing, thank you and yes again, it takes one to know one. You don't even have to be a good one but it helps.
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby NinjaPuppy » 10 Sep 2011, 06:38

ProfWag wrote:Ohh, my bad Ninja. I thought you were just talking about schitzophrenics (sp? and too lazy to look it up) and I was looking for psychics. If they are one and the same, then my deepest apologies. Otherwise, I'm just very sorry I didn't include you as your opinion is just as important to me. Again, sorry.

I believe it was Craig Browning who bought up the skitzothingy (skitzo without the mental illness) that I had to look up and I'm not even sure it was on this topic or another topic. Between two Craigs and at least 4 different yet similar discussions, I'm confused.
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby craig weiler » 10 Sep 2011, 08:54

Well, I am saying that if you hang around real psychics for a while and see how they operate, you should be able to identify a fraud without much trouble whether you are psychic or not. There are incompetents, but that is another story . . .
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby ProfWag » 10 Sep 2011, 20:55

craig weiler wrote:Well, I am saying that if you hang around real psychics for a while and see how they operate, you should be able to identify a fraud without much trouble whether you are psychic or not. There are incompetents, but that is another story . . .

Well, since I'm not convinced that any psychic is "real," I guess I'll forever be in the dark. Dang it.
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Re: Why our gut instinct is usually right

Postby craig weiler » 10 Sep 2011, 23:06

Well, since I'm not convinced that any psychic is "real," I guess I'll forever be in the dark. Dang it.


Can you be convinced? And if so, what would you need in order for this to happen?
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