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Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

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Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Scepcop » 29 Sep 2010, 16:52

I was thinking, could it be that people who are "loners" in the western world are not people with no social skills at all, but in fact genuinely sane people who will not (or cannot) act with the fakeness required to fit into groups? Could it be that they have found a deep inner authenticity inside that they don't want to compromise because they are on such a different frequency, that for them to conform to bullshit and "go through the motions" that it takes to get along in groups and crowds is too taxing?

Could that be the truth? What do you think?

Also, have you ever met a popular person with many friends among mainstream people, who told the truth like it is with no BS, no political correctness and no fakeness?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Craig Browning » 29 Sep 2010, 22:59

I think there's some degree of merit to what you say but at the same time I believe that those that tend to isolate frequently have far too much time on their hands which brings about a large amount of imagination sewn into a simple idea; it's kind of like a festering sore that builds with infection until it suddenly bust open and spreads its poison all over the place... not always something that's been weighed on even a veneer of critical contemplation.

I have something I've attempted to sew into a cognizant short story for years known as "Lucifier's Plot" which came about very much as the result of personal down time and not having much in way of outside contact. The essence of which took root when I first read the book "Holy Blood/Holy Grail" (long, long before the current conspiracy horse pucky and masonic messages from long dead artists and statesmen) but there was quite a bit more stitched into said fabric; the gist of which was that the Church itself was the cult of Satan which is why it has always found "the devil" in all other traditions... especially those that are more benevolent and focused on divinity within the self or the "higher" self such as Buddhism encourages (and actually, JC taught though it's readily ignored by churchmen). After all, if you were the master of deception wouldn't you start off by using basic misdirection techniques to keep folks from seeing the hidden truth in your other hand? :roll:

Isolation/being a loner like anything else, has its pros & cons but, too much of it results in our devolution and mental collapse when it comes to the psychological nature of man; it is not natural for us to not be a social creature. When we withdraw from society we end up listening more and more to the people in our head and trust me, most of them are paranoid fools.
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Scepcop » 30 Sep 2010, 12:01

Hi all,
I was wondering, when you get invited to parties, do any of you find it a stressful experience that you'd rather avoid? I mean it's like part of you wants to go to try to have fun, but another part of you doesn't want to go cause you know it will be a fake stressful experience, for the following reasons:

- You know you won't get any intellectual or soulful stimulation out of it, so you'd rather just stay home and read a good book or watch a documentary in your subject of interests, cause you know you will enjoy that at least. And while you know it's "uncool" to think that way, you can't help it cause it's the truth. You just don't fit in and know you will not enjoy the party, based on your past experiences (not attitude).

- And furthermore, it can be ego deflating when you are around people who are "vibrationally incompatible" with you (as David Icke would put it) because you will NOT feel validated at all, but INvalidated to the point where you can't wait to go home and find something that makes you feel validated again (like this forum for instance).

Any of you ever feel that way?

The truth is, when you are around people who are so "vibrationally different" from you, even making small talk and saying hi feel sooooooooooo awkward! Why is that?

- Besides the fakeness, if you are really intelligent or intellectual, you have to hide it around people at parties, and instead pretend that you are stupid, funny and cool like everyone else. Doing so feels like a lowering of dignity and oneself.

- Interacting with fake or dumb people is not intellectually stimulating. It feels like you are trying to be something you're not. Your inner self prefers doing something else, like reading a good book or watching a fascinating thought provoking documentary instead. You know this is "uncool" but you can't help it cause it's the truth.

- At a party, people usually break into subgroups. If you aren't in a subgroup but by yourself, you will look like a loser. So you feel PRESSURE to try to join one of the subgroups or gather with them. And if you don't connect with anyone there or if people don't talk to you, you feel compelled to try to force your way in somewhere, while looking like you're socializing and having a good time. So you try to join one of the subgroups and pretend to laugh and smile when you have no real interest in what they are saying. It's a lot of unnatural pressure.


So eventually, to avoid all the above, your subconscious mind makes you feel too lazy to go, and you start making excuses not to go, and you usually end up not going.

But you can't tell anyone the true reasons for not going or it'll make you look like a loser with an attitude problem.

Have any of you gone through this process?

It has nothing to do with not being social or fun. It's about you avoiding what you KNOW will be a stressful experience that will leave you frustrated as you try to befriend others you have nothing in common with, or try to pick up a girl/guy you have no chance with, etc. which will ultimately leave you deflated as you go back home, 95 percent of the time at least.

Simply put, you will be expending energy and time for a negative result, so you prefer to avoid it altogether. But you can't be honest about these reasons, or it'll make you look like a loser. Sucks huh?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Scepcop » 30 Sep 2010, 12:07

Here is an interesting response to my question from the David Icke forum:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthre ... 908&page=2

Couldn't agree more mate. Mindless chit-chat bores me to tears.

Good friends and family is a wonderful gift, but too many friends will drain, distract and heavily condition us.

If the relationships in our lives bring us joy, then that's wonderful, but if they stress us out, why put ourselves through that, nobody is under any obligation to tolerate any stress from anybody other than their children, just move your needle to another groove. Relationships are addictions, just like drugs, they have the same effect on our neurotransmitters as drugs.

People who spend a lot of time alone, will have time to contemplate many aspects of life in a very deep, unique & personal ways, this is wisdom, the most important part of our personalities IMO. They also have time to harness knowledge, skills and talents they would otherwise be too busy to. Too much isolation for some people may do harm, the hermits life is not for everybody, actually I've never known of a dull hermit lol, weird- maybe (and that's good), stupid- never.


Withdrawing from society is essential for certain levels of spiritual awakening, one must leave it all behind, let go of everything. Possessions and relationships are part and parcel of the ego illusion, it all must die. Only then is one reborn truly liberated, and every human being becomes as valuable, beautiful, and yet, as undesirable as the next.

Shamans call the spiritual path, the flight of the alone, to the alone. That might sound lonely and depressing to a socialite, nobody said waking up was easy, but when one finds their true self, one knows their true self is all that exists, and it's all that needs to exist, for it is infinite possibilities ever changing.


Rich inner world or rich outer world, we can't have it all.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Scepcop » 30 Sep 2010, 12:09

Zen Master Alan Watts talks about hermits and conformity to society. He doesn't try to argue or prove anything. All he does is describe the nature of what IS.

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Scepcop » 30 Sep 2010, 12:15

Craig Browning wrote:I think there's some degree of merit to what you say but at the same time I believe that those that tend to isolate frequently have far too much time on their hands which brings about a large amount of imagination sewn into a simple idea; it's kind of like a festering sore that builds with infection until it suddenly bust open and spreads its poison all over the place... not always something that's been weighed on even a veneer of critical contemplation.

I have something I've attempted to sew into a cognizant short story for years known as "Lucifier's Plot" which came about very much as the result of personal down time and not having much in way of outside contact. The essence of which took root when I first read the book "Holy Blood/Holy Grail" (long, long before the current conspiracy horse pucky and masonic messages from long dead artists and statesmen) but there was quite a bit more stitched into said fabric; the gist of which was that the Church itself was the cult of Satan which is why it has always found "the devil" in all other traditions... especially those that are more benevolent and focused on divinity within the self or the "higher" self such as Buddhism encourages (and actually, JC taught though it's readily ignored by churchmen). After all, if you were the master of deception wouldn't you start off by using basic misdirection techniques to keep folks from seeing the hidden truth in your other hand? :roll:

Isolation/being a loner like anything else, has its pros & cons but, too much of it results in our devolution and mental collapse when it comes to the psychological nature of man; it is not natural for us to not be a social creature. When we withdraw from society we end up listening more and more to the people in our head and trust me, most of them are paranoid fools.


Where is this short story you wrote "Lucifer's Plot"?

Yeah but I find that loners tend to be in Western cultures cause there is too much fakeness and political correctness required in getting along with groups in Western cultures.

In most countries, you just act as you are, and that's that. So there are less hermits that feel the need to withdraw into something more authentic.
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Arouet » 30 Sep 2010, 12:17

You sound like you're talking about high school! Do people still act that way as grown-ups? As a father of three I don't get to many parties, nor do I feel the desire too anymore. Who the hell cares about being cool once you graduate?
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Scepcop » 30 Sep 2010, 12:28

The parable of the poisoned well

There was once a wise king who ruled over a vast city. He was feared for his might and loved for his wisdom. Now in the heart of the city, there was a well whose waters were pure and crystalline from which the king and all the inhabitants drank. When all were asleep, an enemy entered the city and poured seven drops of a strange liquid into the well. And he said that henceforth all who drink this water shall become mad.

All the people drank of the water, but not the king. And the people began to say, "The king is mad and has lost his reason. Look how strangely he behaves. We cannot be ruled by a madman, so he must be dethroned."

The king grew very fearful, for his subjects were preparing to rise against him. So one evening, he ordered a golden goblet to be filled from the well, and he drank deeply. The next day, there was great rejoicing among the people, for their beloved king had finally regained his reason.
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Scepcop » 30 Sep 2010, 12:30

Arouet wrote:You sound like you're talking about high school! Do people still act that way as grown-ups? As a father of three I don't get to many parties, nor do I feel the desire too anymore. Who the hell cares about being cool once you graduate?


Just because you are not in high school or college doesn't mean you don't care about them anymore or lose your desire for being popular. Desire is not like a light switch you turn on and off. Age does not always change your interest either. You are too much of a conformist to your current place and role.
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Arouet » 30 Sep 2010, 17:20

Scepcop wrote:

Just because you are not in high school or college doesn't mean you don't care about them anymore or lose your desire for being popular. Desire is not like a light switch you turn on and off. Age does not always change your interest either. You are too much of a conformist to your current place and role.


WTF? If you want to still worry about popularity contests and who is the homecoming king and queen then go ahead, but why are you criticizing me for being a conformist about my current place and role? I am quite comfortable in my current place and role, I was trying to give you some advice about not worrying about such things like being cool anymore! As we mature, we realise that they are not so important! I was never the most popular kid in school: now I have a wife who loves me and kids who adore me - that's all the popularity I need!

But whatever, if you are looking for arguments about how being cool should actually be important, guess I can't help you.
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 05 Oct 2010, 20:15

Oh man... where do I even start with this topic?

I agree with Arouet's comment:
You sound like you're talking about high school! Do people still act that way as grown-ups? As a father of three I don't get to many parties, nor do I feel the desire too anymore.

However, I'd like to add a comment about this part:
Who the hell cares about being cool once you graduate?

I believe we all have a desire to be accepted by others that is sort of programmed into our brains. The amount of worth we put on ourselves as to our personal opinion of popularity is the key.

Somehow, someway, I realized many years ago that I tend to buck the status quo. Doing this does not make one 'popular' in average circles. I think it might be my artistic side that looks at life a bit differently and my outspoken nature that makes it very apparent to those around me. It's the old, "round peg in a square hole" thing that has been thrown at me my entire life.

For instance, I HATE holidays. Especially holidays that the entire world is supposed to gather together with friends and family and make believe that all is right with the world for one friggin' day. Yeah, like that is going to change anything. I'll take Thanksgiving as an example. In this country we are supposed to gather together to give thanks. For what? For bringing small pox and death to an entire race of people? To celebrate the banishment of a boatload of unwanted religious people cast away on the sea to get them out of their country who were too stupid to survive without the help of the people they would shortly kill off? Not to mention that you have to eat turkey on that day, with all the trimmings until you are ready to burst open. Oh yeah, give me plenty of that malarky so I can rush right into Christmas mode on black Friday and start spending my hard earned dollars on people I wouldn't spend one penny on the rest of the friggin' year so I can 'celebrate' the birth of someone who was born over 2000 years ago. Just so I can sit around a dead pine tree that drops needles on my rug that will take weeks to vacuum up and watch it slowly turn into a fire hazard that can be a relief compared to paying the bills for all the crappy presents I'm supposed to buy for people. The best Christmas present I can get is no present because then I don't have to spend my time and money for something for you that you don't really want or need. It's a WIN-WIN people!

I spend Christmas Day and a comfortable amount of money on a good cause. I get up on Christmas morning and head over to the biggest auditorium in the County and help out by serving food and much needed basic supplies to children that have nothing. These are families who have lost everything due to some major set back such as a child with special needs/cancer and no medical insurance. Parents who have given up everything they owned to do whatever could be done for the life of their child. Usually with siblings who wouldn't even think of complaining about the lack of comforts because it means that their little brother or sister will be around for a few more years or maybe walk some day or maybe next year, be able to eat without a tube.

Sorry to sound like a downer but if you want to feel popular, do something outside your comfort zone. You may not exactly feel popular but it sure will put many things in your life in perspective. Volunteer for something that you feel is a good cause. I'm not talking about writing a check, I'm talking about getting out there and doing something. Trust me, if you volunteer, you will become a VERY POPULAR person in that circle.
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Craig Browning » 05 Oct 2010, 23:34

I was wondering, when you get invited to parties, do any of you find it a stressful experience that you'd rather avoid? I mean it's like part of you wants to go to try to have fun, but another part of you doesn't want to go because you know it will be a fake stressful experience…

Since my melt down in 03 I have major problems with being around groups of people. While part of it due to the Agoraphobia and other psychological issues (some of which you’ve noted in your list), a lot of it comes from being sick and tired of the games that are played…

Yeah but I find that loners tend to be in Western cultures cause there is too much fakeness and political correctness required in getting along with groups in Western cultures.

In most countries, you just act as you are, and that's that. So there are less hermits that feel the need to withdraw into something more authentic.


{continued from the above}… I refuse to be “Politically Correct” simply because it’s horse pucky and a bigger LIE that the veneer of politeness already extant in such groupings; depending of the situation you’ll find more gossiping, back-stabbing and under-mining in such environs… especially when it’s part of some kind of association or club.

The other thing that I detest is being invited to a function because people know of my background as both, a Reader and Performer and believe that I’ll do something for free since I’m there… boy, do they ever get resentful when I ask for a check first; they seem to forget that it’s my VOCATION and not silliness I do for children.

In those other world cultures that you hint at, the “hermits” are frequently the local holy people who tend to remove themselves from society as they begin to recognize their own sensitivity to things; even in the westernized world you will find spiritually oriented people and psychics moving further outside the larger communities and even into some seriously “rural” areas so they can be with nature/God instead of the ingrates in town that don’t understand nor do they have the desire to.

Arouet, I don’t know about where you live but in the U.S. High School pettiness seems a constant with the past two, maybe three generations. One side of it comes from what pop psychologist called the “Peter Pan Syndrome” some years back; our unwillingness to “act our age” and thus, clinging to our youth but more specifically, the delusion that we are still the head cheer leader or star jock of one of the school sports teams…

… a few years ago I had the pleasure of encountering one of the arrogant football stars of my High School days; a guy that made my life a living hell in school and here he was, working odd jobs on my place of residence (at the time, 14 acres & 5,000 sq. ft. of house)… don’t you just love it when karma comes together?
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Arouet » 06 Oct 2010, 07:17

NinjaPuppy wrote:However, I'd like to add a comment about this part:
Who the hell cares about being cool once you graduate?

I believe we all have a desire to be accepted by others that is sort of programmed into our brains. The amount of worth we put on ourselves as to our personal opinion of popularity is the key.


Sure, but to some extent we can manage that by picking our social group. If intellectual conversation is what is wanted we shouldn't go to the local dance club. We can join groups with similar interests. Make friends with people of similar interests. OP seems to be sticking with the old high school definitions of cool: the good looking guy with chicks on his arm. As adults, I think we can move beyond that, no?

Honestly,. my advice was meant to be helpful. As we get older, our perspective on what is "cool" changes I think. As for validation, when I come home I my kids - literally - cheer. It's great for the ego! Who needs the approval of strangers at parties when you have that. If OP doesn't have kids guess he won't have that, but my point is: if you're constantly hanging out with people who don't accept you, then 1) you're either hanging out with the wrong crows, or 2) you may be putting people off.

@Craig and political correctness; I disagree entirely. What would society be like if we all went around paying no attention to politiness or being offensive: not very nice, I would suggest. While I agree there is a line, there is something to the fact that we should not always be going around telling people exactly what we think about them. There is a time and a place for that.

Take flaming on the internet. Imagine if every single conversation was like that? Would you like that kind of world?
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 06 Oct 2010, 18:46

Arouet wrote:As for validation, when I come home I my kids - literally - cheer. It's great for the ego!

LOL. I will venture to guess that your children are still very young. That ego boost can go down the drain REALLY fast with a pre-menstural teen daughter. :lol:

As for Craig's comments, I HEAR YA BABY!
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Re: Could loners be more sane/authentic than popular people?

Postby Arouet » 06 Oct 2010, 19:09

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Arouet wrote:As for validation, when I come home I my kids - literally - cheer. It's great for the ego!

LOL. I will venture to guess that your children are still very young. That ego boost can go down the drain REALLY fast with a pre-menstural teen daughter. :lol:

As for Craig's comments, I HEAR YA BABY!


heh, yeah, three of them under 5! I'm still their hero!
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