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Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

31 Jul 2014, 20:58

When I did physics it included optics, electronics, statics and kinematics, quite a few other things. I think electronics and computing devices are held to be an application of physics. So....

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

01 Aug 2014, 07:30

Do you mean modern physics starts at Einstein's death? His last major contribution? Please clarify. I'm going to assume you mean his death to be safe. That would be in April of 1955.

Some examples of physics contributions include:
    More effective transistors. (Many, many people over the course of decades.)
    The world wide web. (Tim Berners-Leem)
    Lasers. (Theodore Maiman, Nicolay Gennadiyevich Basov, Aleksandr Mikhailovich Prokhorov, and more)
    Medical tests/treatments including MRI, PET-CT, ultrasound, mammograms, TENS, NMES, modern fluoroscopy, pulse oximeter, and more.
    Military purposes including bombs, jet planes, missile guidance, and more.

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

01 Aug 2014, 13:15

How is a computer and Moore's Law 'sheer propaganda'? What you are saying is an epistemological and phenomenonological absurdity -- you are saying today's computers and hard drives etc don't exist. Or mobile phones or indeed copper wire telephones. Or plastics and a range of other new materials and alloys etc.

Or else you are in the bunfight about what's engineering and what's physics, which is a bit of a turf war thing amongst the cognoscenti.

Or else you are referring to 'the new physics' like it's 'the new English teaching method' or 'the new maths teaching method' that is not very good etc. i.e. that relativity is unproven as a single branch of physics -- which goes back to the early 1900s in fact when Einstein was publishing.

At the same time we had quantum theory being published, which seems to be pretty factual according to all the evidence, e.g. NMR and fluorescent tubes wouldn't work if quantum physics was wrong.

Similarly more research is being done into sub atomic particles, wave-matter duality, etc. Then there is the discovery or explanatory tool of 'dark matter' in space to be worked out in much more detail. Studies of the age of the universe. Carbon dating methods. All these things come under the banner of physics rather than any other discipline. They're not chemistry or biology etc.

And the last option is you're trolling a bit and maybe not a genuine poster.

You would have a better time of things if you started a topic called "Nothing useful has come out of 'neo-classical economics'" because you could mount some convincing evidence of that -- also an area where I happen to have some expertise...

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

01 Aug 2014, 14:49

Enrisdynsamough wrote:I understand you think that. Because that is what we get to learn,
However it is really simply not true.It really is all propaganda.
NONE of the above is because of modern physics.

With all due respect, what evidence do you have that it is propaganda? Propaganda by whom and for what purpose? How is it that you are among the few to know that it is propaganda and not fact? If physics/physicists didn't create those things, what/who did? If physicists aren't doing physics, what are they doing? Simply stating that something which is not true isn't enough to facilitate a discussion.

I would also prefer a typed answer from you rather thank youtube clips or quotations from a site or another. I don't mean to be rude, but you appear to respond to other's questions that way in different threads.

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

01 Aug 2014, 14:53

Enrisdynsamough wrote:Take the transistor (and by extrapolation the computer). A lot of people think the transistor was developed by use of quantum mechanics (QM), by Bells Labs.
that is simply untrue. Even the Nobel pize for this was undeserved.

But the lies and propaganda are still in the textbooks, as far as I know.

Okay, let's stay with the transistor. If all that is commonly known is false, what is the truth? Who really developed them? How and why? How did William Shockley and Gerald Pearson get the credit? Who is doing the propaganda and why?

How do you know that this is propaganda? What are your sources?

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

01 Aug 2014, 15:51

What does the name 'Enrisdynsamough' mean? it doesn't match anything on the web and is not a full anagram of anything either.

I studied both physics and engineering at university. To some extent physics is technology and technology is physics. I think we need a definition of 'physics' and 'modern physics' to work from if you're going to critique it, as we're not clear what you're attempting to critique. There are also many branches including the study of radioactivity and so on that has lead to things like CAT, NMR, MRI and so on. This is generally all under the rubric of physics. Then the invention of vacuum tube transistors followed by silicon transistors, and communication media like wire and fibre optic etc etc. Physics has a lot to do with the properties of materials. It crosses over into engineering and technology a lot, but engineers all study physics as part of their courses.

Certainly there's a lot of rubbishy pop science journalism articles out there talking about medical breakthroughs and science breakthroughs that 'one day will lead to X' whether it's a cure for cancer or faster than light travel, usually on the strength of a very minor discovery. These stories are usually beat ups and wishful thinking to excite the public's imagination and build up something of the discourse of the wonders of science or medical research, so I would agree with you in part there.

Oh, the invention of nuclear weapons and nuclear power would also come under physics research, while I think of it. Even power generation and the study of electromagnetics was originally physics, kind of overtaken by electrical engineering in practice. A lot of what engineers and technologists and technicians do originated in what would be called physics research. Then there is astrophysics, etc etc. Clearly we need a definition of physics here, but to be honest I can't be assed even screen scraping one from anywhere....

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

02 Aug 2014, 18:26

Enrisdynsamough wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:What does the name 'Enrisdynsamough' mean? it doesn't match anything on the web and is not a full anagram of anything either.

Duh??? Does it really have to mean anything? It is just my nick. ;)
I find it funny that you even check it out on the web.

I'm intrigued enough to anagram it, because it has anagram potential. Did you just run rubbish syllables together until you felt like stopping?

Re the allegation that everyone is dumbed down, well, all those people go out and try to get a high salary job. e.g. medicine, engineering, management, whatever... seems to work for them, they buy houses etc.

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

04 Aug 2014, 04:29

Enrisdynsamough wrote:There is a powerelite who control things from behind the curtains.
Those people are very evil towards us and have no intention of giving us knowledge because that would give 'us' power and that is the last thing these people want to do! So the whom is the power elite and the purpose is to keep us from real knowlegde, and to dumb us downs. The powerelite controls the educational system and the…. A conspiracy? it sure is! Most people in educational institutions like universities are dumbed down to an exremely high degree! Those are indoctrinated with a lot of garbage. I am on a sort of quest to see what is true from the things that we take for granted. Especially the ones no ones dare to question.

This doesn't really make sense. One does not lead to another. For example, if I grant that there is a powerful elite (which I don't think I do because I have never heard of any evidence for it), it doesn't mean that they are evil, believe that universities/education is important, are purposely destroying the qualities of our educational system, etc.

Four example: Even if I were to grant the elite, who is effectively in control, who is against education and is working to destroy the education system of this country, that would not prove that EVERY SINGLE university/college/community college was being successfully controlled.

So again, my questions would be:

How do you know these powerful elite exist? Who are they? How do you know what they want? How do they control the education systems? How many people are involved in this conspiracy? Is this a world thing or a country thing? Which countries are involved? How/when did this group start? etc.

What evidence do you have that they control education? Why did they choose to control education (as opposed to placing more emphasis on other factors which would have more impact on society? If all higher level educational systems are compromised, how do they educate/prepare their children/heirs/new recruits? How do they control education? Which institutes are involved? How do you know if an institute is involved? How should one get an education if institutes are involved (mathematical education, science, literature, history, etc? How are higher levels on institute dumbed down? What do you mean by "dumbed down?" (teaching wrong information, making it too easy, etc?) etc

And last but not least the whole question about why I would be among the few, is , with all due respect, the fallacy of appeal to popularity.As Gandhi once said:

That doesn't really answer the question. How were you introduced to this information. Where did you find the information about this conspiracy. How did you know this information hadn't been tainted by those in charge of this conspiracy? How do you find accurate information on science, history, philosophy, math, literature, etc that has NOT been compromised? etc

Simply stating that something which is not true isn't enough to facilitate a discussion.

true! this thread is not over yet.

Yes, but generally one states the evidence to one's claims when one posts the claims.

I will see if I do that. information is information.

It's not the same. It's one thing to link to sources and quite another to simply copy and paste someone else's words/videos. An appeal to authority (logical fallacy). Also, I'm curious about what YOU think, not what your sources think. Typing out a response shows that a person has an opinion on the topics and isn't just repeating things they have heard.

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

04 Aug 2014, 19:44


NASA Scientists Claim "Impossible" Space Travel Engine Could Actually Work ... ually-work

altho something of a perpetual motion machine or summat, who knows what this thing can do? the real application is not a space travel engine but pushing satellites around in space using solar power rather than using traditional consumable rocket fuels, clearly. once again, the media spin headline is more sensational than the reality.

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

06 Aug 2014, 14:21

Your writing style, grammar, spelling, evidence-based argumentation, listening skills, and exposition of ideas are nothing short of amazing, Enrisdynsamough. I would really like to continue this discussion in exactly this vein with you for, I don't know, ad infinitum, but unfortunately more pressing tasks draw me away.

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

08 Aug 2014, 09:45

Enrisdynsamough wrote:First, sorry for my late reaction. Had some other things on my plate.
excuzes moi.
Gee, what to write? There is indeed an elite, but you have to connect a lot of dots.
And do your own homework.No one can GIVE you the answers.
But e.g education is provable for dumbing people down.
I want to keep it here about the more han stupid 'modern physics'.
Take only the sentence: "I have never heard of that......"
Think about that one.

So, back on topic, nobody here has told me yet something that has come out
of 'modern physics' .

because there is none.

Or name one, just one!

I was asking because I don't believe you, and since this is a discussion forum, I thought we could discuss your views. Since you made a whole thread about it, and all.

A plethora have been provided. They have not been disproven until you provide evidence to disprove them. Simply stating they don't count is not evidence.

I'm afraid we've reached an impasse, that is unless you would like to discuss why you believe what you believe or would like to present evidence to disprove the examples of useful physics.

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

13 Aug 2014, 08:56

Take as much time as you need. : )

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

16 Aug 2014, 21:33

There is an interesting theory that Einstein was some kind of plagiarist -- how did a guy working as a clerk in a patent office come up with or synthesise the theories of general and special relativity where full time brilliant theoreticians with their well equipped physics labs couldn't, and so on. Einstein simply took Maxwell's equations and simplified them by setting the speed of light constant at c, whereupon some terms cancelled out and he was left with e=mc2. His paper has few or no references to others' work although it clearly draws from it. Some corollaries to that is that theory of distending time and space and mass to 0 or infinity depending upon speed relative to c and gravity curving light etc are unproven, and that an early attempt to measure light bending around the sun due to its gravity was quite fraudulent in its data gathering, and therefore nothing has been proved. I find it interesting that Einstein just 'gave' a refrigerator design to a struggling friend that he had supposedly devised, which used ammonia as a refrigerant, although you wouldn't do it now due to its toxicity. I find it a little odd and unlikely that he was across all these areas by himself with no training -- thermodynamics, refrigerants, and special relativity -- I wonder whether the fridge idea was borrowed from something he'd seen in the patent office. There are certainly engineering geniuses around who know a lot about a lot of things -- based on learning from all the discoveries that have gone before -- but was Einstein one of them?

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

17 Aug 2014, 04:02

Enrisdynsamough wrote:All of Einsteins idiotic theories, special and general relativity are wrong, shit and bollocks.

Think about this, would TPTSB give us access to any real powerful idea?

well, actually the whole of physics is wrong , shit and bollocks!

I will come to that.

Of course, it would be useful to be able to somehow prove or disprove the theories. I just say I struggled with the notion of any massive objective obtaining infinite mass as its speed approached the speed of light. Doesn't bode well for interstellar travel...

What is TPTSB?

The notion that mass and energy are interchangeable and that there is a huge amount of energy contained in massive objects if it was to be released was something else he 'synthesised', or someone around then did, which lead to the Manhattan Project, i.e. an element had to be used that could release some of this energy. I still dispute the suggestion that physics is not the forerunner to breakthroughs in technology and engineering though. If we were to attack any recognised discipline, neo-classical economics would be a good place to start...

Re: Nothing usefull has come out of 'modern physics'

17 Aug 2014, 05:59

There seems to be a strange mixture of logic and illogic in your posts and thinking. I think you'll find that a nuclear weapon, just like other ordnance, can be set off anywhere at any time, based on the simple physics of the device, just as nuclear power stations will work anywhere. (They usually situate them near water supplies, however, which is often also a seismic fault line. Go figure.)

I have fitted a fluoride filter at home lately and take in 10l containers of that water to work. I would be consuming a very small fraction of the 1 ppm that's put in the water supply. However, natural water supplies also often have dissolved fluoride, up to 8ppm in some parts of China, which causes noticeable SF and lowered IQ.

'Modern physics', however you define modernity -- e.g. starting in the last 150 years or so -- includes foundational research and discovery in electromagnetism which has given us power generation and electric lights (of all kinds), wifi, computers, all other circuits, etc etc. My university physics course included a grounding in statics and kinematics, optics, nuclear physics, relativity, electronics and electrical theory, and astronomy or astrophysics. This is essentially what physics is. The technology applications are in power, thermodynamics, civil engineering, marine engineering, all ICT -- computing, electronics and wired and wireless telecommunications, etc. Without Maxwell's investigations into electromagnetics, the advances of the 20th century would not have been possible.
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