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Galactic Mathematics

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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby NinjaPuppy » 06 Aug 2014, 05:48

Sorry, but it's above my pay grade.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby NinjaPuppy » 11 Aug 2014, 05:51

Enrisdynsamough wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:Sorry, but it's above my pay grade.


what do you mean?


It means that I don't have what it takes to understand any of the topic.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 11 Aug 2014, 16:02

Enrisdynsamough wrote:One of my great hobbies is Galactic or Vedic Mathematics.

As a kid my hobby was mathematics and I teached it to other kids when they had difficulty doing math.
I also have studied math and physics at a university, alas. I got out because it was all too mechanical for me. I hoped for better insights into things.

Anyway. now I have discovered Vedic Math and man how I love it!
At first I was a bit skeptical but tried some soms and man, I was blown away!

This looks like proper math! What I have searched for.

It is more intelligent, less awkward, less errorprone and a lot of the time it is lightning fast! And besides that it improves memory and also your intuition.
It is more a fluid kind of math. To really understand it you have to do it.
There is no other way.

Some examples (arithmetic):

If you are interested:
Please calculate the following sums the 'conventional' way:
If you want you can measure the time it took and write it down as well.
It is not a test, it is to show you the difference.

24 x 11=?

75 ^2= ?

36 x 34=?

997 x 998=?

1233 :9=?

11 x 123=?

1000-898=?

41 x 49=?

And this is just for starters.


Hope people are curious and will react.


There are some mental arithmetic shortcuts that I can see in there, but there may be some more tricks.

e.g. 24 x 11 = 240 + 24 = 264 i.e. just put a 0 on the end of the 24 and add another 24. There might be an even quicker way.

I also realised a while ago that multiplying a number by 5 can be done more quickly by just halving it mentally, then shifting it 1 decimal place.

The other larger multiples I can't see a quick way through though.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby NinjaPuppy » 13 Aug 2014, 03:44

Enrisdynsamough wrote:Well, maybe that is a huge advantage! Really.
Because if you know a lot of mathematics this will be difficult because you have to unlearn a lot.
Children with no math lugage pick this up easily , give it a try!


My head my explode. :shock:
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 16 Aug 2014, 21:24

Is there a quick algorithm to divide any number by 11? There is a 10% GST on everything here, and to figure out the ex GST price involves taking 10/11 of the item. 1/11 is the GST amount itself.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 17 Aug 2014, 04:08

Very interesting. They seem to be algorithms devised as an artefact of positional numbering and base 10 (or base anything). I assume it only works that way for 11? Not 12 or 13 etc?

I suspect we are taught arithmetic the way we have been as the same algorithm works for any length of numbers, although it might take longer and can't be done easily in our heads or via a quicker algorithm. I guess the methods are broken down into steps that are within our capability, i.e. you just need to know the times tables to 10 to be able to perform multiplication of larger numbers...

GST is a goods and services tax, basically a sales tax like VAT.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 17 Aug 2014, 05:51

Enrisdynsamough wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:Very interesting. They seem to be algorithms devised as an artefact of positional numbering and base 10 (or base anything). I assume it only works that way for 11? Not 12 or 13 etc?'


You are right. For 12, 13 or 17 e.g it is different indeed.
But once you start doing Vedic Mathematics it becomes easier and easier and easier.
It will look or feels like yopu 'penetrate' the numbers. Very difficult to describe and you can only get this feeling by really doing it.According to some your pineapples ssems to open up!
(Another very interesting thing is that with VM you can discover there is a rhytm in the Fibonacci sequens and that PI (3.141926) is wrong!)

I sort of see what you mean, it's a little like getting expertise in anything, say in database or something, things become more second nature after a while. I used to struggle for a bit with engineering and physics formulas etc in terms of really understanding the underlying concepts and the relationship between them, although I could recite the actual formula and use it to get a correct result. Vedic maths seems to be tricks of the positional numbering system and almost accidental patterns that can be observed. Although the Western arithmetic methods are a bit clunkier, the same method works for anything, including other base systems, without a lot of thought involved. Fibonacci is certainly a patterned sequence. Not sure how the calculation of pi is wrong, or its decimal representation, especially to 6 decimal places, as it is a verifiable ratio which can even be measured graphically as the ratio of the diameter of a circle to its circumference. This reminds me of another conceptual mathematical area I struggled with, probably out of lack of interest, which is imaginary numbers, and the famous formula 'e to the i pi = -1' (or Image) which (amazingly?) unites the major mathematical entities of interest into a single identity statement -- e, i, pi, 1 (unity) and the negative number concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Complex ... d_analysis

I suspect we are taught arithmetic the way we have been as the same algorithm works for any length of numbers, although it might take longer and can't be done easily in our heads or via a quicker algorithm. I guess the methods are broken down into steps that are within our capability, i.e. you just need to know the times tables to 10 to be able to perform multiplication of larger numbers...


Conventional mathematics is made this way to keep us dumb and clumsy.
That is, by design.

I'm not sure that was the intent, rather that a simple, repeatable and consistent algorithm could be used by anyone to get the correct result.

With Vedic Math you don't even need the time tables to 10! You need them only to 5!
All the other above 5 can be calculated from the ones below 5! Good eh?!

hmm, not sure about that one, 6, 8 and 9 are multiples of 2, 3 and 4, but 7 is a prime number and therefore not a multiple. unless it is simple addition of 5 and 2 or similar.

GST is a goods and services tax, basically a sales tax like VAT.


Oh ok, thanks. So, actually, you have to pay people money with each transaction.
So, 'they' earn money by doing nothing! That is legalized theft in my book!
But there is a way out, but that is a totally different thread. ;)

No, GST is basically a VAT -- 'value added tax' -- which claims to tax a process of production from beginning to end where value is added by someone's labour. It applies to the provision of both physical goods and services. So a doctor charges 10% GST for a consult. A food vendor who has prepared food on the premises, cooks it, and sells it, also remits 10% GST to the govt for the value added in making the food from raw materials. In the case of goods, GST is added from the beginning of the production process, but all intermediate producers claim full 'GST credits' or offsets as they go, i.e. they are effectively GST exempt, until the product is sold to the final consumer who is slugged with the final 10% on the finished product. I assume US state-based 'sales taxes' are similar. It is a so-called 'indirect tax' in that it does not tax income, but those sorts of definitions are pretty arbitrary. It is also an example of a flat tax, and is therefore somewhat regressive. However, it catches a slice of the services pie rather than just goods, thus broadening the govt's tax base. In Australia, it replaced 'wholesale sales tax' on goods which had differential rates of tax and was harder to define, administer and collect and helped avoid rorting via reclassifications of goods to a lower rate. The VAT in Britain has gone up several times due to govt fiscal crises, and is approaching 20%, whereas the Oz GST has remained at 10% which at least makes the maths easier. All this assumes the necessity and inevitability (like death) of some sort of system of taxation to run the machinery of state.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 18 Aug 2014, 05:50

a-ha, very interesting. in effect, for numbers > 5, you are subtracting from 10.

the techniques certainly are interesting for doing quick arithmetic on large numbers. remember the days when they used to have rooms full of people with slide rules doing the calculations for various physics projects etc, just before modern computers really took off -- they were all replaced with a Univac in the end. I know floating point processors also use 'shortcuts' to operate using lookup tables and the like to do various types of calculation. The more we use spreadsheets, the less we do manual arithmetic -- and we don't trust our own answers anyhow...
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 18 Aug 2014, 17:37

How have you determined a different value for pi than the one that has been calculated to a trillion decimal places as an exercise?

I just wanted to say it reminded me of another conceptual mathematical area I struggled with. Complex numbers are used in electrical theory to emulate circuit behaviour under AC, which is even more bewildering lol.

Not sure about the real numbers math replacement.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 18 Aug 2014, 22:03

that jain thing really does not sound like the hundreds of pages of notes and proofs I took down in Calculus and Linear Algebra classes.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 19 Aug 2014, 13:16

Quite funny. The proofs, collectively, are one of the reasons we can differentiate and integrate and solve engineering problems. I was quite good at doing second order partial derivatives once upon a time, calculating the volume of spheres with cylinders drilled out of them using functional partial derivatives mathematically rather than by measurement.

The trouble with 'Vedic mathematics' is that it's just a bunch of tricks that let you come up with simple arithmetic answers a bit quicker -- some Indian guys have spent the past 2,000 years observing and studying patterns of positional notation and coming up with a couple of shortcuts in all that time, but nothing more. Basic arithmetic is only useful for accountancy. No calculus, no more advanced mathematics. None of it means anything if you're trying to launch a satellite and do some meaningful calculations. Clearly in the information age calculators and spreadsheets have pretty much superseded the need for Vedic shortcuts just to add up a few numbers. To make is a mark of pride is a bit sad, really.

Is it 0.0526315789473684 ? Through long division or Windows 'calc'.
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Re: Galactic Mathematics

Postby SydneyPSIder » 19 Aug 2014, 13:51

You need to demonstrate all of the above. But I don't doubt that with a lot of work it might be possible to come up with alternative computational methods for those sorts of transformations. However, the symbolic logic of performing calculus would not change, simply the method of calculation -- similarly to how slide rules and logs used to be used to speed up calculations before computers became widespread and were obviously very fast and very accurate.

I did it by running 'calc' and pressing the buttons '1/19='. Computer algorithms did the rest.
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