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The Horrors of Public Education

Discuss Other Topics not related to the Paranormal or Conspiracies (within reason of course).

Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby NinjaPuppy » 30 Jul 2010, 00:35

A perfect return. BTW, since you are a member of the teaching community, what do you feel might be just the thing to correct the problems in our public schools, or do you think they operate just fine the way they are?
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby ProfWag » 30 Jul 2010, 04:06

NinjaPuppy wrote:A perfect return. BTW, since you are a member of the teaching community, what do you feel might be just the thing to correct the problems in our public schools, or do you think they operate just fine the way they are?

Increase teacher pay in the k-12 grades would be a start. Administer some sort of appraisal system and get rid of poor teachers. Have "inspectors" (for lack of a better term) make frequent visits to classrooms to monitor what/how is being taught.
Having said that, I'm not a k-12 teacher nor do I have kids so I've never had a personal stake in the school system other than the obvious which is what is being sent out to the workforce that I might someday work with.
As for higher education, well, that's a different matter all-together. Personally, I'm all for "free-thinking" at that level and fully support schools that support a wide variety of ideas. There are certain standards, quality, and quantity that should be met, but if one person wants to support capital punishment while the other doesn't, then they should be allowed to have a difference of opinion. One thing I don't understand is what the hell colleges do with their money. Allow me to give you a perfect example, from experience.
Tuition at my school is roughly $1,000 per class in which I have 25 students. That's $25,000 for one set of 25 students (my school's enrollment is roughly 12,000 students so do the math). As an adjunct professor, I get paid roughly $130 per student which totals $3,250 per class. $25,000 - $3,250 = a $21,750 profit PER CLASS of 25 students. And I get calls from my alma-maters every year asking me for money. Guess where I tell them they can stick it...
But I'm not bitter. Okay, I'm off my soapbox now.
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby NinjaPuppy » 30 Jul 2010, 19:37

Yes, I think that is a good start. Teaching jobs should be more competitive (for lack of a better word) with better pay for starters. How about hiring more of them (teachers) and cutting class sizes? It seems that public education tends to go downhill when schools become overcrowded. Do you think that you would be more effective or cover more subject matter with perhaps 50% less students?
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby ProfWag » 30 Jul 2010, 20:17

NinjaPuppy wrote:Yes, I think that is a good start. Teaching jobs should be more competitive (for lack of a better word) with better pay for starters. How about hiring more of them (teachers) and cutting class sizes? It seems that public education tends to go downhill when schools become overcrowded. Do you think that you would be more effective or cover more subject matter with perhaps 50% less students?

In a Utopian society, I think that would be perfect. Unfortunately, with budgets the way they are, I don't think we'll see that anytime soon.
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby Craig Browning » 30 Jul 2010, 22:39

Increase teacher pay in the k-12 grades would be a start.
BUT ONLY IF THEY DESERVE IT!

As I pointed out previously, most do not! Secondly, when I drive by any public school and see teachers pulling in, driving brand new 40 and 50 thousand dollar vehicles I’m quite confident of the fact that they are not the under-paid individuals they keep claiming to be. I just think they are like everyone else in the world and driven by greed and the delusion of not getting what they think they are worth. Hell, we all think we’re worth more than we really are. But then the opposite is true as well; many of us in today’s world buy things we believe to be “of worth” which are actually ego-toys, not something of genuine “need” or value.

I think the best pay system for teachers would be a sliding scale base on a handful of evaluation sources;

    1.) Student Evaluations: that is to say, a report card type evaluation by the students themselves via which a direct pulse can be taken when it comes to how the students relate to each instructor they interact with.

    2.) Parental Evaluations: same as the above but from the parent’s point of view.

    3.) Administrative & Peer Evaluations: same as the above but overly simple in how it is constructed so as to force +/- type of grading with room for limited comment. My concern here is “in-house” politics and related biases which are unfortunate snares wherever you find more than two human beings gathered. While the above would help filter out such biases, the survey must have some built-in controls to help screen out the B.S. factor as well.

    4.) Appraisers’ Evaluations: independent source-group set outside the administration element and preferably, the community at large (my point being to limit political favor when it comes to individual’s (the teacher) social-political and even family position so as to circumvent the good ole boy schmoozing factor within the evaluation) who will “grade” each instructor based on the above feed-back as well as direct interviews and observation.

Based on these scores teachers would EARN pay increases and/or bonuses that would be in addition to standard cost of living aspects.

Administer some sort of appraisal system and get rid of poor teachers. Have "inspectors" (for lack of a better term) make frequent visits to classrooms to monitor what/how is being taught.

As I said… I believe this is something that has been grossly over-looked and/or side-stepped for years, primarily due to the power welded by the Educator’s Unions who fear such challenges. We’ve seen their rebellion when it comes to requisite testing by the State for its educators and dismissing those teachers who fail to pass each exam… but then we have teachers who can’t pass their own tests… the very one’s they expect their students to pass.

One thing I don't understand is what the hell colleges do with their money. Allow me to give you a perfect example, from experience.

You figure that one out and you could earn yourself a Nobel…

Colleges are so abusive… especially the private schools that demand annual tuitions of hundreds of thousands of dollars which, in my book, is BULL SHIT!

    a.) There’s not a single professor on the planet worth more than $200k a year in direct salary

    b.) Exceptionally few Universities/Colleges seem to actually maintain what they have with said funds; preferring to constantly ask for “more” via whatever excuse they can drum up… the new computers (which are now needed every 5 years if you’re to keep up with the technology evolution); new science wings, new sport team equipment or stadiums, etc. It’s all a matter of keeping ahead of the Jones’s in this case.

Tuition at my school is roughly $1,000 per class in which I have 25 students. That's $25,000 for one set of 25 students (my school's enrollment is roughly 12,000 students so do the math). As an adjunct professor, I get paid roughly $130 per student which totals $3,250 per class. $25,000 - $3,250 = a $21,750 profit PER CLASS of 25 students.

Yep! But hey, that’s a better deal than I was getting with a local community college I was doing classes at… I was being paid $50.00 per class, not per student. On average we had 30ish students in each class, who would pay a semester fee slightly less than you mention. But here’s the real rub… I was only given 3 classes a week… but I could take any other course I wanted while teaching there, at a reduced rate…

So I can feel your angst… it’s also why I stopped offering my services as a teachers in a specialized field to such organizations. They were pocketing some rather big money off my experience, blood, sweat and tears and paying me a pittance for it?! No, no! Ain't gonna happen...

A Utopian Society?

"sigh" How I long for the day :ugeek:
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby Scepcop » 06 Dec 2010, 19:22

Check out this video I found that explains how and why public schools in America are essentially no different than prisons, designed to condition you to think and act as obedient slaves. It's very spot on.

Herd Mentality - The Schooling System



This video describes the history of our enslavement, from ancient times til present. It's very interesting.

The story of your enslavement

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby ProfWag » 06 Dec 2010, 22:14

To promote discussion, What's your recommendation Scepcop, do away with schools?
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby NinjaPuppy » 07 Dec 2010, 06:37

ProfWag wrote:To promote discussion, What's your recommendation Scepcop, do away with schools?

My suggestion is to pay teachers more money. That way the field would become more competitive with better candidates.
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby ProfWag » 07 Dec 2010, 09:56

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:To promote discussion, What's your recommendation Scepcop, do away with schools?

My suggestion is to pay teachers more money. That way the field would become more competitive with better candidates.

I'm all for more money for teachers, but would paying teachers more money help or hurt the students who are being conditioned to "think and act as obedient slaves?"
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby NinjaPuppy » 08 Dec 2010, 00:32

I'm all for more money for teachers, but would paying teachers more money help or hurt the students who are being conditioned to "think and act as obedient slaves?"

I don't believe there is a standard answer to your question. It seems to me that there are different levels of this type of thing at individual schools. I can't even comprehend the differences between upper/middle class towns vs. economically stressed, inner city towns in one state in this country. Let alone comparing the possibilities globally.
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby ProfWag » 08 Dec 2010, 02:54

NinjaPuppy wrote:
I'm all for more money for teachers, but would paying teachers more money help or hurt the students who are being conditioned to "think and act as obedient slaves?"

I don't believe there is a standard answer to your question. It seems to me that there are different levels of this type of thing at individual schools. I can't even comprehend the differences between upper/middle class towns vs. economically stressed, inner city towns in one state in this country. Let alone comparing the possibilities globally.

Great response Ninja, but I'm not sure it agrees with Scepcop's video "horror." :-)
Kinda my point, I guess...
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby NinjaPuppy » 08 Dec 2010, 03:20

[quote="Scepcop"]Check out this video I found that explains how and why public schools in America are essentially no different than prisons, designed to condition you to think and act as obedient slaves. It's very spot on.

Herd Mentality - The Schooling System



Let's take the subject one step at a time, shall we? I'm going to start at this point as this particular point as thread goes for too many pages.

COMMENT: "Check out this video I found that explains how and why public schools in America are essentially no different than prisons, designed to condition you to think and act as obedient slaves. It's very spot on."

I then watched the video pertaining to this comment (again) to see if the actual comment or claim by SCEPCOP is correct. Why yes... it is. Perhaps not spot on for all schools everywhere but the basic claims are certainly backed up by not only well know and accepted facts as well as my own personal experiences from mumblemumble years ago.

The video goes beyond comparing schools to prisons with mention of the working class. I can say that the comparison, is once again, spot on.

Does anyone have a difference of opinion of the above mentioned specific information?
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby NinjaPuppy » 08 Dec 2010, 03:25

If so.... then let's discuss. If not, then let's move on, shall we?

Prof Wag asked the question, what can be done to correct this? A few people offered their thoughts on an answer but as usual, the topic started going around in circles a bit. Why? Because if someone had the Reader's Digest version to the dilemma, it wouldn't be an issue. However, the original comment and video remains accurate even if one of us here can't give the answer to Prof Wag's question.
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby NinjaPuppy » 08 Dec 2010, 03:43

Now on to the second video and comment:

COMMENT: This video describes the history of our enslavement, from ancient times til present. It's very interesting.
Why yes! It is 'interesting' however it's slow and boring as well. My additional opinion does not change the fact that the subject material is 'interesting' as well as very possibly spot on.

Did I watch the entire video? Oh hell NO. The guy's voice made me want to stick a sharp object into my eye less than half way through. The editing was choppy and nothing loses my interest more than watching colored areas of a map of Europe changing, growing and shrinking while someone drones on about the Roman Empire. Once again, my personal commentary does not change the information or the historical facts presented in that boring, little, choppy docudrama.

I hate to tell you guys this but there is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to Man. It is a dimension as vast as space, and as timeless as infinity. It is the middleground between light and shadow, between science and superstition; and it lies between the pit of Man's fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call...the Twilight Zone. At least that is what I've been told. :D
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Re: The Horrors of Public Education

Postby derrida » 08 Dec 2010, 04:04

so if someone is a moron and could never get to learn the math tables
is actually a free person cause he never learned to be part of the ¨herd?¨
just asking
i think that seems quite funny
so a moron is actually outsmarting the intellectuals by not reading nor learning?..


in related news: america´s next president has a new reality show.. Sarah Palin´s Alaska..
Awesome..
she is in the same league of flavor flav and the mike the situation
gosh.. the world´s greatest army is going to be controlled by her.. that gives me goosebumps
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