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Rational Utopia

Postby yellowlawn » 11 Nov 2009, 21:36

What would life be like if we lived in a Skeptics Mecca of a Rational Utopian World? A world without human emotions as we all know these are just varied electrical impulses in the brain. Instead judging everything on it's logical merit.
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby Nostradamus » 11 Nov 2009, 21:47

Couple of questions come to mind.
1. Why did you include the word utopian? Could rational world be sufficient?
2. Do you think rational precludes emotions?
3. Are you suggesting that the mind is solely a neuron based structure? What about the influence of astrocytes?
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby NinjaPuppy » 11 Nov 2009, 21:49

Rational utopian world? Isn't that an oxymoron?
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby brett » 12 Nov 2009, 00:48

er the brain is an organ - the "mind " is something completely different ;)
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby ProfWag » 12 Nov 2009, 01:14

yellowlawn wrote:What would life be like if we lived in a Skeptics Mecca of a Rational Utopian World? A world without human emotions as we all know these are just varied electrical impulses in the brain. Instead judging everything on it's logical merit.

If I'm reading your question correctly,
We would have people spending money on food, clothing, medicine, and shelter rather than psychic advisors.
We would have people getting rational advice from a licensed counselor rather than someone who reads the stars.
We would have people completing the stages of grief rather than hear someone else telling us our dead relatives are "okay."
We would have people using medicine to make themselves better rather than using .00006 parts per thousand of something that wouldn't be enough to heal a flea.
We would have people enjoying life as they know it rather than living in fear of ghosts and alien autopsies.
We would have fewer wars because everyone would have the same religion (or lack thereof).
We would have people studying science and advancing humanity rather than spending time on and energy studing John Edward or Edgar Cayce.
There's a start. Would you like me to continue?
To further question your question however, why are you assuming that a skeptical mecca is void of human emotion? I'm skeptical, but am all sorts of emotional over things. Happy, sad, angry, etc. What do you really mean by that?
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby brett » 12 Nov 2009, 02:41

yellowlawn wrote:What would life be like if we lived in a Skeptics Mecca of a Rational Utopian World? A world without human emotions as we all know these are just varied electrical impulses in the brain. Instead judging everything on it's logical merit.


(quoting prof wag )

If I'm reading your question correctly,
We would have people spending money on food, clothing, medicine, and shelter rather than psychic advisers.

( people who don't have the above cant AFFORD psychic advisers )


We would have people getting rational advice from a licensed counselor rather than someone who reads the stars.

( don't maker me laugh prof - some of them have less sense than astrologers )


We would have people completing the stages of grief rather than hear someone else telling us our dead relatives are "okay."

( and whoever dreamed THAT load of baloney up - has never lost the love of their life , i speak from experience ) - there ain't no big switch you throw when grieving - i am entering the 4Th year and still miss my late wife like hell every day - and how do you know my wife is NOT OK and in a far better place than here - you don't ,any more than i do - but at least ways i can believe she is - if i was to have listened to that load of tosh - i would have been over her by now and "moved on with life " - well screw that !! - stages of grief - psychobabble - nothing but bloody psychobabble - i had better stop now before you make me REALLY wild :evil: )

We would have people using medicine to make themselves better rather than using .00006 parts per thousand of something that wouldn't be enough to heal a flea.

( agree )

We would have people enjoying life as they know it rather than living in fear of ghosts and alien autopsies.

( misconception - as whats to fear from the departed - if they cant hurt you alive ........... some people fear snakes and spiders )


We would have fewer wars because everyone would have the same religion (or lack thereof).

( rubbish !! man would still be killing each other - and for why ?? - because there's money in death - and the day that all mankind agree on one religion will be the day they make ME pontiff !! - )

We would have people studying science and advancing humanity rather than spending time on and energy studying John Edward or Edgar Cayce.

( its called freedom of choice prof - or did you spend your time in the military for other reasons than to protect that right ?? vis the pursuit of life ,liberty and the pursuit of happiness - and if that means believing in ghosts, goblins or pink unicorns , then so be it )

There's a start. Would you like me to continue?

( no - as it sounds like some totalitarian state where everyone would have to act and think the same -( which forgive me is something that most people would fight any amount of wars to steer clear of , and have ) - ruled by skeptics ?? - not till they prise the paranormal hand book out of my cold dead hands !!

To further question your question however, why are you assuming that a skeptical mecca is void of human emotion? I'm skeptical, but am all sorts of emotional over things. Happy, sad, angry, etc. What do you really mean by that?
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby ProfWag » 12 Nov 2009, 04:00

I had actually posted my comments with a little sarcasm, but a few things you mentioned are off base.
Poor people visit psychics. I'm not saying they are the only ones, but many do. I believe it was QP that posted a story about a couple who visited a psychic who drained them of their last penny and nothing left to eat (or something along those lines). Similarly, it is the poor who spend more money than they should afford on beer, smokes, and lottery tickets.
Grieving is a process that you may not ever get over, but is a continuous process. Everyone goes through it differently. My heartfelt condolensces to you Brett. I've never lost a wife so I can't speak from that experience. But I do know (or at least strongly believe) that many so-called mediums tell people flat out lies about their deceased. If you want to be lied to in an effort to help you feel better, then so be it. I feel it is wrong to fraudulently take money from those who are grieving, but that's just me and my morals speaking.
And as far as getting rational advice from a counselor, you go see Madame Dionne down on the corner for life's advice. I'm going to see Dr. Jones.
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby yellowlawn » 12 Nov 2009, 08:57

Think beyond the NO paranormal in a rational perfect world.
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby yellowlawn » 12 Nov 2009, 09:09

Nostradamus wrote:Couple of questions come to mind.
1. Why did you include the word utopian? Could rational world be sufficient?
I included Utopia as it best describes an ideal community or society
2. Do you think rational precludes emotions?
Yes because emotions can be somewhat difficult to rationalise, therefore emotions become a hindrance to rational thought
3. Are you suggesting that the mind is solely a neuron based structure? What about the influence of astrocytes?

The mind may well be solely neuron based, but the brain isn't.
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby brett » 12 Nov 2009, 13:42

ProfWag wrote:I had actually posted my comments with a little sarcasm, but a few things you mentioned are off base.
Poor people visit psychics. I'm not saying they are the only ones, but many do. I believe it was QP that posted a story about a couple who visited a psychic who drained them of their last penny and nothing left to eat (or something along those lines). Similarly, it is the poor who spend more money than they should afford on beer, smokes, and lottery tickets.
Grieving is a process that you may not ever get over, but is a continuous process. Everyone goes through it differently. My heartfelt condolensces to you Brett. I've never lost a wife so I can't speak from that experience. But I do know (or at least strongly believe) that many so-called mediums tell people flat out lies about their deceased. If you want to be lied to in an effort to help you feel better, then so be it. I feel it is wrong to fraudulently take money from those who are grieving, but that's just me and my morals speaking.
And as far as getting rational advice from a counselor, you go see Madame Dionne down on the corner for life's advice. I'm going to see Dr. Jones.


maybe i should have said "stupid people" visit psychics that charge - as you will soon be poor if you visit some of them - my point was that the poor ( the real poor ) cant "afford" them in the first place

as you say you have never lost a wife - so when /if ever ( god forbid ) you CAN speak from experience on this prof ( and as usual i mean no disrespect here ) , then you come back and tell me that the "textbook" stages of grieving are correct - please be aware that people have sensitivities about some subjects - and they should not be be treated with levity or indeed sarcasm

and councilors - well i would have BEEN better off going to madame Dionne on the corner for all the useful advise and understanding i got from the "grief " counselor i got sent to ( a supposed professional ) - did not listen - certainly did not understand me /my life /circumstances / views ( though few do :lol: ) - and proceeded to give me the usual BS psychobabble , deriding my feelings in the process - about as much use to me a chocolate fire hose in a house fire !! - so again please accept that we may have to differ in opinion here based on personal experience ;)

funnily enough i DO see a Dr Jones ( coincidence ?? ) a jovial welsh man and one of the most down to earth people i know - straight talking - and eminently sensible , he has a fairly low opinion of councilors too , strange to relate :lol: :lol:
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby ProfWag » 12 Nov 2009, 19:16

I apologize for my incensitivity Brett.
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Re: Rational Utopia

Postby brett » 13 Nov 2009, 05:06

ProfWag wrote:I apologize for my incensitivity Brett.


apology appreciated :D
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