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Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

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Re: Can anyone explain the anomalies at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Arouet » 13 Mar 2012, 04:16

Yeah, I've been to Magnetic Hill in New Brunswick, Canada, which has that effect. It is very cool. You basically go on it, put your car in neutral and it will roll "uphill".

Even knowing that its an illusion doesn't change the effect.
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Re: Can anyone explain the anomalies at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Scepcop » 13 Mar 2012, 21:09

Check out this news media report from the 90's about the unexplainable height change at the Oregon Vortex. The reporter had no idea how it worked. The plank was level, as you can see. I even balanced a nickel on it. But the height change was too great even if it was a fraction off. In this video, the tour guide said that something there might cause light to bend so that the person at the north end appears shorter. But if so, then you could touch the top of the person's head and have your hand pass through it. lol. At the end, the reporter said that a physicist studied the Oregon Vortex for 40 years, and corresponded with Einstein about it. But before he died, he burned all his research papers, saying that the world was not ready for the secret there. Very spooky. Here it is:



Here is a clip of a man and woman doing the height change there. You can see that their height definitely changes when they switch sides. It doesn't appear to be an optical illusion. Something really unexplainable is going on there.

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Re: Can anyone explain the anomalies at Oregon Vortex?

Postby ProfWag » 13 Mar 2012, 22:39

Scepcop wrote:Here is a clip of a man and woman doing the height change there. You can see that their height definitely changes when they switch sides. It doesn't appear to be an optical illusion. Something really unexplainable is going on there.

There may not appear to be an optical illusion, but there is.
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Arouet » 13 Mar 2012, 22:44

Ok, so I did take the pics of scepcop and erased everything around the two guys, and there is definetly a height difference between the two photos. Don't feel like uploading it to image shack or anything but its easy to do yourself. Right click and save the photos. Open in paint or other program and just erase everything around then use a box to draw a straight line from the top of the taller guys head. There is a real difference on the photos between the gap from the bottom of the box and scepcop's head in each photo.
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby ProfWag » 13 Mar 2012, 22:51

Arouet wrote:Ok, so I did take the pics of scepcop and erased everything around the two guys, and there is definetly a height difference between the two photos. Don't feel like uploading it to image shack or anything but its easy to do yourself. Right click and save the photos. Open in paint or other program and just erase everything around then use a box to draw a straight line from the top of the taller guys head. There is a real difference on the photos between the gap from the bottom of the box and scepcop's head in each photo.

So what conclusion can be drawn from that? Camera angle? Subjects move closer and/or farther away from the camerea? Something Paranormal?
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Arouet » 13 Mar 2012, 22:57

I don't know what conclusions can be drawn, someone more technical than me would have to do further analysis, but I did want to post what I found.
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Suncross74 » 14 Mar 2012, 10:07

I am glad to see Arouet found something interesting, here. If Arouet says something funny's going on (note: I'm not saying he's saying it's paranormal, just that it's "unexplained,") then, I think we can all agree, we KNOW there's something funny going on. xD

As for the video - I only watched the shorter one, and I know no definite conclusions can be drawn from one YouTube video, but it is certainly quite interesting. If you watch closely you can (at least I feel you can) see their height changing as they walk.

One contraindication I can find is that the camera lens does not appear to be perfectly flat - if you'll note, the plank seems to "curve" towards the lens at the middle. Could there be a "bending" effect in the lens to explain this? Possibly, however, the use of the plank above their heads adds quite a bit to the credibility of the video (since it would be hard to generate such a substantial and obvious difference just from a camera trick).

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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Arouet » 14 Mar 2012, 11:27

Certainly something interesting - we've a ways to go before we get to paranormal however!
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Scepcop » 14 Mar 2012, 19:06

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gravity_hills

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_hill

What exactly is a gravity hill and how does it work? Those links above don't explain that. I would image that if a river or ball was rolling uphill, then the ground or foundation underneath must be tilted somehow in a way that you don't notice it, right? That would be the logical explanation.

However, a level plank is another matter. If a plank can be demonstrated to be level by a level tool and by me balancing a nickel on it, then how would heights change from one end of the plank to the other, from any angle you look?

Again, see the video above from the news report. You will see the height change take place. See it for yourself.

I wonder what would happen if I took two cylinder objects of the exact same height (such as barrels) and switched them on that plank, and measured them each time with a tape measure. Or better yet, how about sliding two objects of equal height toward each other on that plank and see if any height changes occur?

I should email the Oregon Vortex visitor center and ask them if they've tried that.
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Scepcop » 14 Mar 2012, 19:40

Suncross74 wrote:I am glad to see Arouet found something interesting, here. If Arouet says something funny's going on (note: I'm not saying he's saying it's paranormal, just that it's "unexplained,") then, I think we can all agree, we KNOW there's something funny going on. xD

As for the video - I only watched the shorter one, and I know no definite conclusions can be drawn from one YouTube video, but it is certainly quite interesting. If you watch closely you can (at least I feel you can) see their height changing as they walk.

One contraindication I can find is that the camera lens does not appear to be perfectly flat - if you'll note, the plank seems to "curve" towards the lens at the middle. Could there be a "bending" effect in the lens to explain this? Possibly, however, the use of the plank above their heads adds quite a bit to the credibility of the video (since it would be hard to generate such a substantial and obvious difference just from a camera trick).

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Hi Suncross. Interesting pagan solar symbol in your avatar. Why did you choose it? What does it mean to you?

It's interesting that Arouet would admit that something is unexplained. That's a rarity. I didn't say it must be paranormal either, just unexplained. But one can't say that anything paranormal is impossible either.

The camera lens explanation is certainly out, because you can see the same thing with the naked eye when you are there. Plus, the height change is noticeable from any angle. There are many other videos that show this too, from different angles.

Someone on PinoyExchange had an interesting explanation:

http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/sho ... st61769596

I'm skeptical. Consider these points:

1) Why is the level tool measured only at the center? They should measure from both ends to check whether it is truly at dead level. The coin test is irrelevant if it is only placed in the middle.

2) I suspect that one of the ends are subtly sloped upwards and craftily hidden by the soil to make it look straight and even. You can see this on the first video. The left end is raised higher than the right end. I don't think they covered it properly.

3) Why use people as a measuring tool? They should use a long ruler at the same height measurement to check the level. If the other end is lower, then, no brainer actually. The other end is higher, which I believe can be verified with the level tool.


However, if you superimpose the photos of the same people on both sides, you will still find a height difference, regardless of the slopes or leanings. The leaning only makes a slight difference, but not enough to account for the height difference.
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Arouet » 14 Mar 2012, 19:45

Scepcop wrote:It's interesting that Arouet would admit that something is unexplained. That's a rarity. I didn't say it must be paranormal either, just unexplained. But one can't say that anything paranormal is impossible either.


Rare? Really? There are many things that are unexplained in this universe. The problem is equating unexplained to paranormal.

So no, not so rare.
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Scepcop » 14 Mar 2012, 20:05

Yeah but paranormal is relative. It depends on what you consider normal. Ancient people would consider cell phones and cameras to be paranormal. It's just a word for unexplained things.

However, you do acknowledge that some things we discover may change our view of reality and upturn science, right? The problem is, the science establishment does not like to change something that it's invested lots of time and money into. You understand such politics right? But for some reason, pseudoskeptics never account for it. Instead, they assume that most scientists and the science establishment is completely objective, unbiased and free of politics, control or censorship. That just isn't so. That's where their major fallacy is.

Wouldn't you agree?
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Arouet » 14 Mar 2012, 21:23

Scepcop wrote:Yeah but paranormal is relative. It depends on what you consider normal. Ancient people would consider cell phones and cameras to be paranormal. It's just a word for unexplained things.


Well, I'm not sure they would consider them paranormal after someone sat them down and explained how it all worked!

However, you do acknowledge that some things we discover may change our view of reality and upturn science, right?


Sure, look at the recent neutrino experiment. While it seems likely at this point that there was an error with some delicate equipment, if it turns out the neutrinos can go faster than the speed of like it would upturn our current view of physics.

The history of science is filled with such paradigm shifting discoveries and it is extremely likely that the future of science will continue that trend.

The problem is, the science establishment does not like to change something that it's invested lots of time and money into.


Sure, but it goes more fundamental than that. When a discovery threatens to upturn the current paradigm we should be open to it, but also hold it to a very high standard. Such is the case with the neutrinos.

We don't want to rewrite the textbooks at the first sign of something potentially paradigm changing. We want it to be tested to a very high degree of confidence - and then consult the printers...

You understand such politics right? But for some reason, pseudoskeptics never account for it. Instead, they assume that most scientists and the science establishment is completely objective, unbiased and free of politics, control or censorship.


Who ever said that? Can you site any well known skeptic saying that? Or are you talking about some youtube commenter?

That just isn't so. That's where their major fallacy is.


It would be if people actually believed it, but I don't think they do.
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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Suncross74 » 15 Mar 2012, 05:56

Scepcop wrote:Hi Suncross. Interesting pagan solar symbol in your avatar. Why did you choose it? What does it mean to you?


It represents the Sun and Wotan's eye (it's the Suncross, hence my username). I am indeed a Pagan, specifically Asatru/Odinist.

I like your idea about the test with two objects of equal height. Don't use barrels, though. For one thing, they're curved, and for another, wood can expand and contract. Use something made of metal and square in shape - some kind of pole or something, and make sure to measure it at a spot definitely not affected by the vortex first to get their normal height readings. Also go ahead and do the level and coin at the ends of the plank as suggested by that one guy.

Will you get a chance to be out there to carry out such an experiment on film? If only I lived in Oregon, I would go do it myself.

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Re: Can anyone explain the height change at Oregon Vortex?

Postby Suncross74 » 15 Mar 2012, 06:20

Also, I don't believe in the "paranormal." If something happens in the multiverse (I say "multiverse" to include anything and everything which may or may not exist beyond this reality we know), then it's obviously perfectly normal and possible. There are only things we haven't discovered or don't understand yet. So if this phenomenon is real, it doesn't mean it's "paranormal" - that's a junk word in my opinion. It just means we don't understand how it works yet. Same with souls and astral bodies. If astral bodies do exist, that doesn't make them paranormal, it just means we don't understand the mechanisms of astral projection yet. If there are realms beyond this one that we live in, they're not paranormal, we just don't understand the physics involved yet.

Mysticism has a place, and that place is in personal spiritual endeavors, meditation, "magickal" workings, and religious rituals. When we're trying to explain a phenomenon, or prove it scientifically, then spooky "mumbo-jumbo" is irrelevant and has no place.

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