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Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

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Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby The23rdman » 19 Dec 2012, 19:19

As noted before I consider myself a true zetetic, but whilst I was growing up I was very dogmatic in my beliefs. I overcame that rigid structure in part by ingesting psychedelics and in part by reading and practising brainchanging books and exercises.

The most important exercise I used is based on the admonishment the walk a mile in another mans shoes before judging him. I would quite literally spend time (usually a couple of weeks, but it depended how entrenched I was) being somebody else. How it would work around here would be for the skeptics to spend some time really diving into all the YouTube and CT websites without the critical thinking they think they use now. You must BELIEVE and approach everything with a WOW and OMG attitude. The same for the CT's. You must question everything you read hyper critically from the perspective of one who automatically suspects BS or a hidden agenda.

Everyone here knows how the other side come across, but if you really want to learn you have to become them.
If you think you know what's going on you're probably full of shit - Robert Anton Wilson
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby Arouet » 19 Dec 2012, 19:27

I'm all for trying to see things from the other side (I think I try to do that all the time!) but I think the proponents on this site would object to being labelled as uncritical thinkers who believe whatever catches their fancy! ;)
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby The23rdman » 19 Dec 2012, 20:03

I'm only speaking as I have seen and from the perspective of someone who doesn't believe in anything absolutely. Maybe my choice of words could be considered inflammatory, but that may say more about the nervous system of any who take offence than mine.

for what it's worth, Arouet, I have read a lot of your posts and you do seem to be courteous in your dealings with others. I am sure you would learn a lot from this exercise, but that is entirely up to you. I posted it to see if anyone truly does wish to find common ground...
If you think you know what's going on you're probably full of shit - Robert Anton Wilson
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby SydneyPSIder » 19 Dec 2012, 20:14

The23rdman wrote:The same for the CT's. You must question everything you read hyper critically from the perspective of one who automatically suspects BS or a hidden agenda.

Everyone here knows how the other side come across, but if you really want to learn you have to become them.

whew, it's lucky I already do that -- I'm a genuinely analytical, scientific sceptic, with a background in the sciences and logic. What disturbs me is anomalous hard evidence that contradicts 'official' accounts, whether it's vaccines, Apollo, 9/11, or inexplicable manifestations of the paranormal.

My sceptical side and science training allows me therefore to reject many of the wilder and more fantastical theories that are out there, whcih I frequently do on this site. But, once you have ruled out the impossible, often only the improbable remains.

Otherwise, I'm more than happy to try a little exercise -- a walk round the park or an hour in the gym would do me a power of good.
Last edited by SydneyPSIder on 19 Dec 2012, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby The23rdman » 19 Dec 2012, 20:19

Sydney, with the absolute greatest of respect, I've seen little evidence that you think the way you say you do. As far as I have read of your posts you seem to jump a little quickly to conclusions.
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby SydneyPSIder » 19 Dec 2012, 20:21

The23rdman wrote:Sydney, with the absolute greatest of respect, I've seen little evidence that you think the way you say you do. As far as I have read of your posts you seem to jump a little quickly to conclusions.

yes? why don't you prove that with some examples. and I've rejected a few wacky theories here or people who are attracted to this site who just like making stuff up. I notice they haven't been posting lately.
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby The23rdman » 19 Dec 2012, 20:27

Maybe I'll call you up in conversation if I spot it happening, but I'm not going to go through the forum looking for examples because that is bordering on character assassination in my book. I wasn't trying to offend you in any way, but simply remarking that my extensive reading through the back threads led me to question your statement.
If you think you know what's going on you're probably full of shit - Robert Anton Wilson
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby SydneyPSIder » 19 Dec 2012, 20:52

The23rdman wrote:Maybe I'll call you up in conversation if I spot it happening, but I'm not going to go through the forum looking for examples because that is bordering on character assassination in my book. I wasn't trying to offend you in any way, but simply remarking that my extensive reading through the back threads led me to question your statement.

maybe. it's pretty hard to actually search for posts by anyone because that feature is switched off. however, I stand by the evidence that's been presented in every one of my posts. if something can be shown to be scientifically invalid or fallacious I accept it entirely and will recant. I've been on forums where character assassination was the rule rather than the exception -- where the assassins nearly always had money at stake in the game to produce the behaviour. As noted, I've criticised other posters here for simply posting flights of fancy and imagination that had nothing to do with genuine sceptical research or highlighting problems with evidence and official accounts. I believe I have a logical, analytical and rational brain, at least that's what everyone I know personally in the real world tells me.
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby really? » 19 Dec 2012, 21:01

The23rdman wrote:Maybe I'll call you up in conversation if I spot it happening, but I'm not going to go through the forum looking for examples because that is bordering on character assassination in my book. I wasn't trying to offend you in any way, but simply remarking that my extensive reading through the back threads led me to question your statement.


Here's one example.
no they weren't. where's the stars? or was that the first mission that actually made it? irregardless of radiation levels
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2638&p=29110#p29110
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby The23rdman » 19 Dec 2012, 21:06

Okay guys, let's try not to make this a thread about who did or didn't do this or that. I apologise for calling you out, Syd, as that wasn't the idea.

I can see that if everyone here thinks they are a true skeptic then it'll be pointless.
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby really? » 19 Dec 2012, 21:10

The23rdman wrote:Maybe I'll call you up in conversation if I spot it happening, but I'm not going to go through the forum looking for examples because that is bordering on character assassination in my book. I wasn't trying to offend you in any way, but simply remarking that my extensive reading through the back threads led me to question your statement.

SydneyPSIder wrote: if something can be shown to be scientifically invalid or fallacious I accept it entirely and will recant.
We've tried doing that without success
SydneyPSIder wrote: I've been on forums where character assassination was the rule rather than the exception -- where the assassins nearly always had money at stake in the game to produce the behaviour.
You need to be reminded it has been you that consistently uses the word pseudosceptic epithetically .

SydneyPSIder wrote: As noted, I've criticised other posters here for simply posting flights of fancy and imagination that had nothing to do with genuine sceptical research or highlighting problems with evidence and official accounts.

I recall you doing that. But that shouldn't include humans setting foot on the Moon or 9/11 being an inside job.
SydneyPSIder wrote: I believe I have a logical, analytical and rational brain, at least that's what everyone I know personally in the real world tells me.

Family and friends love you and care about your feelings, therefore, they will tell you things that aren't true.
Last edited by really? on 19 Dec 2012, 23:33, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby The23rdman » 19 Dec 2012, 21:15

*sigh*
If you think you know what's going on you're probably full of shit - Robert Anton Wilson
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby Arouet » 19 Dec 2012, 21:24

The23rdman wrote:Okay guys, let's try not to make this a thread about who did or didn't do this or that. I apologise for calling you out, Syd, as that wasn't the idea.

I can see that if everyone here thinks they are a true skeptic then it'll be pointless.


Exactly! You see my point now? There are very few proponents, imo, who would describe themselves as you have above - whether that's how you see them or not. That's especially true of proponents who participate in forums such as this and Skeptiko. Everyone feels that they are the ones being critical and the other being dogmatic or unquestioning, etc.

Your point is well taken (that we should try and approach these issues from the other side) - actually, I've participated in a few threads like that on skeptiko. But rather than frame it in terms of one side being critical and the other not, over there we framed it as: make the best arguments for the other side of the debate.
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby The23rdman » 19 Dec 2012, 21:28

I see what you are saying and I now understand why it wont work. This exercise takes a remarkable amount of self awareness to even entertain. Perhaps I should frame it differently... Actually, I can see that it really is pointless. Neddermind.
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Re: Is Anyone Prepared to Try a Little Exercise?

Postby really? » 19 Dec 2012, 23:49

The23rdman wrote:I can see that if everyone here thinks they are a true skeptic then it'll be pointless.


Here's the questions your reply elicits. Should skeptics not form opinions on certain paranormal or supernatural beliefs ? Should we *endlessly examine with an open mind certain paranormal and supernatural beliefs ? That's how we look at claims.
Here are some examples:
astrology
Pyramid Power
The Mars Face
Healing energy
reptilian overlords
dowsing

* Reexamining is necessary because there's always a younger generation needing to learn, but not with open minds
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