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Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby The Warrigal » 16 Aug 2009, 02:06

I honestly don't have a clue as to how this effect is achieved.

Providing that there was no video editing done and it is just a magician's trick it's still a bloody good one!

Not that I expect magicians to reveal their trade secrets, but I would very much like to see a magician replicate this stunt for us.

I also like to see fraud exposed, so if this is fraud, then I for one would welcome an expose.

If it cannot be demonstrated to be just a slick piece of trickery, then I would like to see it done under laboratory conditions before an audience of both sceptics and "believers."
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby Scepcop » 16 Aug 2009, 02:14

I'm wondering, what if the heat from the blowdryer passed through the glass and caused the wheel to move? I think heat can pass through glass, after all. But then again, how do you explain the change of direction? He'd have to time everything perfectly too.
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 16 Aug 2009, 02:17

Scepcop wrote:I'm wondering, what if the heat from the blowdryer passed through the glass and caused the wheel to move? I think heat can pass through glass, after all. But then again, how do you explain the change of direction? He'd have to time everything perfectly too.


I thought the same thing and hit the same wall when the direction change came into it as well.
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby ProfWag » 16 Aug 2009, 06:42

There is plenty of information on how to make the wheel move. I have provided but one video. There are more. Feel free to look it up if you're really interested in the truth.
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby Scepcop » 16 Aug 2009, 14:26

ProfWag wrote:There is plenty of information on how to make the wheel move. I have provided but one video. There are more. Feel free to look it up if you're really interested in the truth.


Dude are you listening? The video you provided only shows you how to make the wheel move with the heat from your HANDS. It doesn't show you how to make it move while covered within a glass bowl! I already explained that to you. And yet you consider it debunked? LOL

What are you smoking?

So what you're saying is that a video that shows how to make the wheel move with your hand explains how a demonstration where it moves under a covered glass bowl works?

Dang. Should I make an example out of this in my treatise, as an case of lunacy?!?!?!
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby brett » 16 Aug 2009, 14:44

just out of interest - i replicated this last night - and guess what - it just sat there - not moving a millimeter - nothing ,Nada - nix , i tried using a hair dryer on hot setting all it did was warm the glass bowl up - and i took temperature measurements as i went along and as i opined using just the hands , no perceivable difference in temps from base to top - next experiment is to place the wheel in a hermetically sealed glass vessel and try again - believe me if i can get it to move i will send a video post haste :lol:

so if it is SO easy to do this "trick " then how come it did not work for me ?? as if it is a trick then it should be repeatable -( have any of you condemning it bothered to actually replicate it yet BTW ?? ) - so the mystery remains trick , faked video or genuine ability ???

i honestly don't know :?
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby ProfWag » 16 Aug 2009, 19:06

No, I haven't and don't think I will. There are too many variables such as the type of paper used, exact folds, balance, type of jar, etc. and I personally don't have the patience. All I know is that the physics of the experiment says that's how it's done. But I appreciate you taking that on and am interested in your conclusions!
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby brett » 16 Aug 2009, 22:36

ProfWag wrote:No, I haven't and don't think I will. There are too many variables such as the type of paper used, exact folds, balance, type of jar, etc. and I personally don't have the patience. All I know is that the physics of the experiment says that's how it's done. But I appreciate you taking that on and am interested in your conclusions!



oh come on prof wag - neither did i - i just used what was to hand - ( the bowl was pretty much the same ) - its not exactly difficult i followed the instructions on the site someone kindly posted here to make the wheel the rest sussed out from the video , you say you don't have the patience to do some simple research like that ?? - oh the physics says that's how it works - so that's good enough then ??

- come on this is hardly high precision stuff - too many variables ?? you ever heard of the term "proof of concept " ?? - a simple experiment like this should work with a wide range of variables - god almighty this is kindergarten stuff as far as research go's - and you cant be bothered to even TRY and replicate it - it took me 30 minutes

typical - come to a conclusion - but research it to come to that conclusion ?? - no way :roll:

sorry proff that just don't wash ..............heard it all before when i have challenged skeptics about their lack of practical research

( i am waiting for my hermetically sealed bell jar to dry at the moment - and when it is on with MY research )
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby ProfWag » 17 Aug 2009, 01:07

Thanks, but no thanks. If I did make it work, I would either be told I had TK or it was a trick, and if I didn't make it move, I would be told that my hypothesis is incorrect or I personally didn't have TK. Either way, it's a lose/lose situation for me that wouldn't prove anything either way so I won't waste my time. It's been covered in many "fun science," and mentalist magic books so I am convinced there is a logical explanation (already covered) and that TK is probably not at work with the psi-wheel.
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby brett » 17 Aug 2009, 01:41

ProfWag wrote:Thanks, but no thanks. If I did make it work, I would either be told I had TK or it was a trick, and if I didn't make it move, I would be told that my hypothesis is incorrect or I personally didn't have TK. Either way, it's a lose/lose situation for me that wouldn't prove anything either way so I won't waste my time. It's been covered in many "fun science," and mentalist magic books so I am convinced there is a logical explanation (already covered) and that TK is probably not at work with the psi-wheel.
Wag


so if you DID make it work then - would that mean that your fundamental beliefs could take a serious knock and you would have to join the ranks of the "beleivers " :twisted: :lol: - yea probably best you don't try it then ;) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

well i rest my case folks , at least ways SOME of us believers are willing to have a go as even a nil result is still data

oh BTW proff just for reference - the wheel did not move in the bell jar either - i even tried heating the bottom to see if that would work - nope it did not even quiver - so guess i don't have the gift of TK either :lol: :lol: - so the question remains - hows it done ??
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Aug 2009, 02:10

I have made a worthy attempt to Google up any answer to this psi 'trick' with virtually no real evidence as to how or what makes the paper rotate. I did find a load of references to people trying to duplicate the 'trick' with absolutely no luck at all and one person who seems hell bent on perfecting his talents in this area. The rest of the information is based on only TK being the reason. Seems the skeptics really can't find any logical reason pro or con. At least they're not talking about it on the Internet.
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby ProfWag » 17 Aug 2009, 21:27

Okay folks, here are the bottom lines on psi wheels. First, nothing I can say will make believers change their minds that TK is not at work with regards to the psi wheel so whatever I say here will probably be taken with a grain of salt. That's fine. I'm here because if there are people who are on the fence with the paranormal will have a flip-side of a situation to consider.
I've given several possible explanations that seem to have been thrown out. So, here is my challenge. I would like to see an experiment where there are TWO wheels, side by side in the same jar with exactly the same set up. I would like to see a full-room view. I would like to see a jar that has not been placed in a refrigerator prior to the experiment. I would like to see the jar completely vacuumed sealed. I would not like to see a blow-dryer that conducts heat. I would like to see styrofoam around the base of the jars. I would then like to see a psychic move only one of the wheels randomly selected.
Show my that and I'll continue the discussion.
Wag
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Aug 2009, 22:17

ProfWag wrote:Okay folks, here are the bottom lines on psi wheels. First, nothing I can say will make believers change their minds that TK is not at work with regards to the psi wheel so whatever I say here will probably be taken with a grain of salt. That's fine. I'm here because if there are people who are on the fence with the paranormal will have a flip-side of a situation to consider.


Yup, it's that flip-side that I love so much.

I've given several possible explanations that seem to have been thrown out.


Not thrown out by any means. Just not debunkable by any of the talent here.

So, here is my challenge.


Does it come with a $1,000,000.00 price tag? Sorry, I am a bit of a class clown, but you just know I had to say it. Besides, it's early in the morning and I am testy before my second cup of coffee.

I would like to see an experiment where there are TWO wheels, side by side in the same jar with exactly the same set up. I would like to see a full-room view. I would like to see a jar that has not been placed in a refrigerator prior to the experiment. I would like to see the jar completely vacuumed sealed. I would not like to see a blow-dryer that conducts heat. I would like to see styrofoam around the base of the jars. I would then like to see a psychic move only one of the wheels randomly selected.


ProfWag- You know something? You are my favorite skeptic around here. You are the voice of reason amidst a sea of skeptical floatsam. Not to take away any of the good logic of other skeptics here but IMO, you always make perfect sense.

Until now. I do not belive that we so called 'believers' are looking to reinvent the psi wheel. The original discussion was asking for a logical reason or scientific explanation as to how that particular claim could be debunked. Granted, your request for certain criteria does give many different possibilities as to what might be responsible. The problem lies with the fact that not many people can even make the one pinwheel move with faulty control methods, let alone two wheels with exactly that set up. Of course, your other requirements are not all that restrictive except for the vacuum sealed part. I can't keep a steak from getting freezer burn let alone vacuum seal some pinwheels under a glass bowl.

So logically, air flow and heat/cold are your two major suspects here. Am I correct?

Show my that and I'll continue the discussion.
Wag


Dang!
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby ProfWag » 17 Aug 2009, 22:21

Scepcop wrote:What are you smoking?

So what you're saying is that a video that shows how to make the wheel move with your hand explains how a demonstration where it moves under a covered glass bowl works?

Dang. Should I make an example out of this in my treatise, as an case of lunacy?!?!?!


By the way Scepcop, I have seen your treatise. Please oh please add me to it! It would be especially great if you would add my comments right next to the line about why a psychic could not have used cold reading because she was a "kind sincere simple next door granny type ." That would be perfect!
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Re: Impressive psi trick. How does he do it?

Postby brett » 17 Aug 2009, 22:32

ProfWag wrote:Okay folks, here are the bottom lines on psi wheels. First, nothing I can say will make believers change their minds that TK is not at work with regards to the psi wheel so whatever I say here will probably be taken with a grain of salt. That's fine. I'm here because if there are people who are on the fence with the paranormal will have a flip-side of a situation to consider.
I've given several possible explanations that seem to have been thrown out. So, here is my challenge. I would like to see an experiment where there are TWO wheels, side by side in the same jar with exactly the same set up. I would like to see a full-room view. I would like to see a jar that has not been placed in a refrigerator prior to the experiment. I would like to see the jar completely vacuumed sealed. I would not like to see a blow-dryer that conducts heat. I would like to see styrofoam around the base of the jars. I would then like to see a psychic move only one of the wheels randomly selected.
Show my that and I'll continue the discussion.
Wag


show me THAT and i will personally pay for the postage to return the forms take the Randi challenge :lol: :lol: - of course proff then I would have to throw your previous point about being too many variables back at you - as it could ( and as any self respecting Pskeptic would ) be argued that there where subtle differences between the glass jars - the way the wheels where folded - the sharpness of the pins ya de ya de ya de - even if it was achievable - someone would STILL say it was faked or the video was altered - or someone had a very small and fine chord wrapped round the spindle and then rendered invisible by image manipulation ,this passing through tiny and undetectable holes to 2 assistants just out of camera shot who systematically pulled on the chords to make the wheel rotate - or or or or - even if you put the jars in a vault in fort Knox and had the guy move them from outside BY TK - someone would call foul - so really its business as usual - the Pskeptics will never accept TK and the rest of us just don't know how it was done - - maybe it was MAGIC ?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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