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Humanists and UFOs - A Lukewarm Reaction!

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Humanists and UFOs - A Lukewarm Reaction!

Postby skysurfer » 27 Oct 2010, 18:49

Listers might be interested in my attempt to introduce the subject of UFOs - Robert Hastings UFOs and Nukes press conference in particular - to my local UK humanist branch.
The results as you will see are lukewarm at best and a travesty of open mindedness at worst.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.....
I'd be interested in others' reactions or successes or failures you've had in getting through to pseudo=sceptics...
Here's the link to the discussion:
http://www.meetup.com/HASSNERS/boards/v ... ad=9935967
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Re: Humanists and UFOs - A Lukewarm Reaction!

Postby Eteponge » 27 Oct 2010, 23:51

There are many impressive cases of UFOs that interest me. The main types are...

* Cases with witnesses of reputable authority and trained observers. Air Force Pilots, Astronomers, Police Officers, Government Officials, Military, Astronauts (such as Gordon Cooper), Etc.

* Cases with mass witness sightings (dozens, hundreds, or thousands witnessing a UFO / UFOs) where the overall accounts of what occurred as recounted by the eyewitnesses, and the description of the craft or crafts match one another to a significant degree, and is still anomalous.

* Cases where UFOs have been caught on Radar going impossible speeds, doing impossible maneuvers, being of ridiculous size, and anything else suggesting that we don't know what the hell it is, but it was there on radar. Especially cases where you have multiple pilot and civilian eyewitnesses COMBINED with matching radar data.

* Cases of UFOs interfering with military facilities and disabling missiles and nukes.

* Cases of Trace Evidence of UFO Landings. Where a purported landing spot of a UFO is later examined by experts. Radiation is discovered there, indentions on the ground are documented, other anomalies in the grass and soil are recorded, Etc.

* CERTAIN Cases of excellent Photography and Video that DOES stand up to scrutiny when examined by photograph, video, and photoshop experts (such as David Biedny, who has examined many, and accepted few as truly unexplainable and untouched). And there are SOME good examples of clear Photographs and Videos, not all of the best stuff are blurry or out of focus.

Those are the best types of cases that impress me.

Of course, what UFOs are, no one ultimately knows. The "Extraterrestrial Hypothesis" is merely one of many. Some could be top secret government craft, they could be craft from another dimension or alternate history, the crypto-terrestrial theory (which suggests these might be craft from another advanced civilization residing on this planet we don't know about, such as under the vast ocean, or under the earth, or in some secluded place) might be correct, or time travelers from an alternate future, or some local or non-local phenomenon we don't know what the hell it is. Or, a combination of many or all of those theories, UFOs are probably not from a single source (some may be Extraterrestrial, others may be Extra Dimensional, others may be Time Travelers, Etc.) Ultimately, we don't know. Therefore, Unidentified Flying Objects.

Debunkers seem to strawman everything as:

* "Only rednecks and drunks and trailer park folks see "lights in the sky" and claim it's UFOs". (Ignoring the highly reputable, trained observers, who have witnessed and experienced them, such as government officials, military, pilots, astronomers, astronauts, etc.) Stephen Hawking once made an ignorant statement along these lines, "I am discounting reports of UFOs. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?" Obviously, he's never done two seconds of honest research on the topic.

* "No pilot, military official, astronomer, or trained observer has ever witnessed a UFO and deemed it unexplainable!" (Complete and total lie.)

* Claims it's all in people's heads, mass hysteria, or people misremembering or misidentifying everything in *every single last case*, despite undeniable Radar evidence and physical trace evidence in many cases independent from people's experiences and photographs / videos.

* Focus on the many many many fraudulent, suspicious, woo woo aspects of UFOlogy, such as the New Age stuff that has crept in, "researchers" in the field that are pure woo and have a total woo audience, the UFO Cults that have sprang up, and the dime a dozen very poor quality Alien Abduction stories (some are very convincing and very good quality and well documented, many many many are not), basically all of the poor quality stuff, while ignoring all of the good quality stuff, using a poisoning the well, "best of us, worst of you" type of fallacy.

* Focus entirely on the extraterrestrial hypothesis and ignore all others.
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Re: Humanists and UFOs - A Lukewarm Reaction!

Postby skysurfer » 28 Oct 2010, 00:09

Thanks for those thoughts Eteponge - but as you see from my last but one sentence, I was interested in others efforts to get through to sceptics and am seeking any tips people might have.
I am well aware of what the debunkers think and say - the big question is, are they a lost cause or should we continue to try to 'educate' them?
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Re: Humanists and UFOs - A Lukewarm Reaction!

Postby Eteponge » 28 Oct 2010, 02:22

skysurfer wrote:Thanks for those thoughts Eteponge - but as you see from my last but one sentence, I was interested in others efforts to get through to sceptics and am seeking any tips people might have.
I am well aware of what the debunkers think and say - the big question is, are they a lost cause or should we continue to try to 'educate' them?

Focus on presenting these types of UFO Cases to debunkers ...

* Cases with witnesses of reputable authority and trained observers. Air Force Pilots, Astronomers, Police Officers, Government Officials, Military, Astronauts (such as Gordon Cooper), Etc.

* Cases with mass witness sightings (dozens, hundreds, or thousands witnessing a UFO / UFOs) where the overall accounts of what occurred as recounted by the eyewitnesses, and the description of the craft or crafts match one another to a significant degree, and is still anomalous.

* Cases where UFOs have been caught on Radar going impossible speeds, doing impossible maneuvers, being of ridiculous size, and anything else suggesting that we don't know what the hell it is, but it was there on radar. Especially cases where you have multiple pilot and civilian eyewitnesses COMBINED with matching radar data.

* Cases of UFOs interfering with military facilities and disabling missiles and nukes.

* Cases of Trace Evidence of UFO Landings. Where a purported landing spot of a UFO is later examined by experts. Radiation is discovered there, indentions on the ground are documented, other anomalies in the grass and soil are recorded, Etc.

* CERTAIN Cases of excellent Photography and Video that DOES stand up to scrutiny when examined by photograph, video, and photoshop experts.

And don't insist that only the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis is the only valid one, but that these are truly Unidentified Flying Objects of unknown origin.

That may or may not get an honest reaction from them. It all depends on the individual skeptic. There are some skeptics I've met who are open to the topic, or at least will honestly concede that there are Unidentified Flying Objects cases which remain unexplainable and unidentifiable by conventional means. Yet, there are other skeptics who will dismiss everything you post on the topic out of hand without even seriously examining the data.
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Re: Humanists and UFOs - A Lukewarm Reaction!

Postby Eteponge » 28 Oct 2010, 03:37

UFO Researcher Paul Kimball has done an excellent series of Documentary Videos known as "Best Evidence" on the Top Ten Best UFO Cases...













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Re: Humanists and UFOs - A Lukewarm Reaction!

Postby skysurfer » 28 Oct 2010, 05:05

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions.

The Best Evidence videos should help a great deal - as long as one can persuade folk to actually watch.
But if they don't consider the evidence their argument - even to them - must be shaky.

Onwards and upwards and tanks again

Dave
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