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Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby really? » 20 Oct 2010, 20:33

NinjaPuppy wrote:
caniswalensis wrote:Hey Ninja Puppy, can you do this? lol

While I do have a lovely pair of fur lined cuffs in my possession, they are not what you would consider police issue. ;)

But they do work the same way.


You naughty girl ;)
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby Craig Browning » 20 Oct 2010, 22:23

Scepcop wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:MAGIC TRICK!

It's a simple (very simple) Publicity Trick, nothing more.

While I don't know anything about that type of cuff I know enough about escape work and handcuffs to know how easy it is to either gimmick the cuffs on site (during the locking) or to simply have a set of quick release cuffs made that look like the sort used by the cops... you either use these with the cops going along with the gag (most likely) or you've switched out the legit set for the gimmicked set at some point AFTER any sort of inspection has been done.


Why would the cops be in on the trick? What if they are not? Can you use magic tricks to get out of real maximum security handcuffs?


HINT: When Houdini did the big escape challenges in his show for the press, the cops were frequently "in" on things, at least to some limited degree, it's simple because they viewed it all as ENTERTAINMENT and/or a magician after some PUBLICITY. No One takes it too seriously.

For about two years in my latter teens I did a ton of escape work, including several Houdini pieces. I was at an advantage for two reasons; my mother's father's stint in Vaudeville and having actually working with old Harry as well as a man named Max Shell who worked for the man himself and owned tons of handcuffs used by Houdini. Max introduced me to a lot of things and ways to see stuff when it came to escapes; but then I was doing handcuff releases when I 14 and 15 years old. Too, it had become a kind of niche challenge for various friends (and my High School Football Team) to tie me up, etc to see if I could get free -- I ALWAYS DID! ;)

Now I don't know about the others, but I'd think you'd know enough about my background to recognize the fact that I probably do know what I'm talking about when I say "Magic Trick"... I'm very fair when it comes to scrutinizing demonstrations of this sort; in this case we are looking at two things I know somewhat well; escapology and martial arts. I know the limits and abilities of both. ;)
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby Scepcop » 28 Dec 2011, 00:03

Skeptics,
Can you explain this one? Is it for real? What is this touch he has that renders people unconscious? Is there such a thing in ancient martial arts?

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby Arouet » 28 Dec 2011, 00:42

Is there anyone on this site that you think has the experitise to evaluate that Scepcop? Do you suppose there is something non-physical going on? was the demonstration done in conditions you would consider reliable? Is there enough information in that video to draw any reliable conclusions?

And yes, I do believe there have been martial arts for a long time.
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby Craig Browning » 28 Dec 2011, 00:58

He's doing exactly what he claims. I was fortunately enough to take a few classes in Dem Mak back in the 80s and on top of that I was an Akido student in my teens, so pressure point techniques are quite familiar to me. What they are saying about Dem Mak however, is a hint of exaggeration for the sake of hype perhaps but certainly over-simplification in that certain strikes and the desired effect can only be delivered during certain times of day and even then, only to persons acclimated to the time zone in question. Toss onto this other physical influences such as the victim's breathing; a subtle knuckle strike in the rib area during the early evening hours will bring on all the symptoms of a Cardiac Arrest and unless someone knows how to counter that strike within a given time frame following the original strike, the victim will die.

This is a part of the martial arts world from which the more mystical lore seeps from because it is "invisible" for the most part, usually only taught to those taking on the mantel of assassin or "ninja" as the case were. But on that thought, Porky Boy ain't no Ninja Master he's using the term because of its commercial appeal and little other. There is only one living Shidoshi that I'm aware of in the U.S. and that would be Stephan Hayes who teaches the Iga Clan forms of the craft. Frank Dux claims to be trained in the Coga Ninjitsu styles but is likewise one of the biggest laughing stocks in the Martial Arts world it would seem. He is the one behind Jean Claude Van Dam however, Jean-Claude's first big movie "Blood Sport" being about Frank's like. . . having once worked for Frank I can assure you, there's a lot of misinformation in the film as well as the world of Mr. Dux, but I'll not go down that path.

My suggestion when it comes to this sort of stuff, is that you actually do some footwork around it. In the case of Dem Mak, look up the books by Ashida Kem, they'll give you a general picture as to what's what. Stephan Hayes also has a fair number of books that may enlightened you as well.
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby ProfWag » 28 Dec 2011, 01:23

really? wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:While I do have a lovely pair of fur lined cuffs in my possession, they are not what you would consider police issue. ;)

But they do work the same way.


You naughty girl ;)

Heeeyyyyyy, wait a minute. Where the hell was I when you posted this Ninja?!?!
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby ProfWag » 28 Dec 2011, 01:29

Craig Browning wrote:What they are saying about Dem Mak however, is a hint of exaggeration for the sake of hype perhaps but certainly over-simplification in that certain strikes and the desired effect can only be delivered during certain times of day and even then, only to persons acclimated to the time zone in question.

Uhhhhh, excuse me! Craig! (Imagine me in the back of the class with my arm waving)
Are you saying that this is what has been said of Dem Mak or is this what you are subscribinb to as potentially factual (the part about being acclimated to the time zone thingy as well as later when you say it's lethal only during some parts of the day)? Or, were you just checking to see if we actually read your posts?
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby Craig Browning » 28 Dec 2011, 22:37

ProfWag wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:What they are saying about Dem Mak however, is a hint of exaggeration for the sake of hype perhaps but certainly over-simplification in that certain strikes and the desired effect can only be delivered during certain times of day and even then, only to persons acclimated to the time zone in question.

Uhhhhh, excuse me! Craig! (Imagine me in the back of the class with my arm waving)
Are you saying that this is what has been said of Dem Mak or is this what you are subscribinb to as potentially factual (the part about being acclimated to the time zone thingy as well as later when you say it's lethal only during some parts of the day)? Or, were you just checking to see if we actually read your posts?


Certain techniques in Dem Mak only deliver primary results when the strike or "tap" is done on specific points of the body during specific times of the day (based on the victim's biological clock). The reason for this is how different organs, etc. present greater susceptibility.

I won't pretend to be an expert this is just what I was taught over a three day weekend. I know that it has something to do with the Acupuncture meridians and such but we're talking about something hasn't been part of my life for close to 30 years and as scrambled as my brain is, I may be mixing some things up. . . I doubt it, but I could be.
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby ProfWag » 29 Dec 2011, 05:16

Craig Browning wrote:
ProfWag wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:What they are saying about Dem Mak however, is a hint of exaggeration for the sake of hype perhaps but certainly over-simplification in that certain strikes and the desired effect can only be delivered during certain times of day and even then, only to persons acclimated to the time zone in question.

Uhhhhh, excuse me! Craig! (Imagine me in the back of the class with my arm waving)
Are you saying that this is what has been said of Dem Mak or is this what you are subscribinb to as potentially factual (the part about being acclimated to the time zone thingy as well as later when you say it's lethal only during some parts of the day)? Or, were you just checking to see if we actually read your posts?


Certain techniques in Dem Mak only deliver primary results when the strike or "tap" is done on specific points of the body during specific times of the day (based on the victim's biological clock). The reason for this is how different organs, etc. present greater susceptibility.

I won't pretend to be an expert this is just what I was taught over a three day weekend. I know that it has something to do with the Acupuncture meridians and such but we're talking about something hasn't been part of my life for close to 30 years and as scrambled as my brain is, I may be mixing some things up. . . I doubt it, but I could be.

Interesting. I had never heard anything remotely like that before. Can you imagine being at a bar, about ready to punch some ass-wipe in the nose, but then holding back and telling the dude he was going to have to wait until it was 8:30 to get his ass-kicking because my body was still on east coast time?
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby DarkArackana » 22 Apr 2012, 12:23

Joey Nuzum is a psychic: http://youtu.be/E8ouWTLf9L8
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby DarkArackana » 22 Apr 2012, 12:28

Scepcop wrote:Skeptics,
Can you explain this one? Is it for real? What is this touch he has that renders people unconscious? Is there such a thing in ancient martial arts?



"What is this touch he has that renders people unconscious? Is there such a thing in ancient martial arts?" Good question. There actually is: http://youtu.be/Bo2q6_LNidk
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Re: Skeptics, how did this Ninjitsu master do this?

Postby Craig Browning » 22 Apr 2012, 23:24

First of all Ninjitsu is NOT a single Martial Art style but a combination of no fewer than 3 but typically 5 or more chief disciplines. The typical student that's qualified for this field of study has what would amount to being a Brown Belt rank or higher in each of these alternative systems before even being considered for the advanced training.

In the case of the film loop above, most of what this guy was demonstrating were advanced forms of Jujitsu as well as elements of Tai Chi Chuan (the lethal side of traditional Tai Chi) and as with any and all pressure point and joint attacks, Akido.

Ninjitsu, while it does have some of its own "dirty work" deals more with helping the warrior learn how to combine his/her many skill sets along with stealth techniques, deception & misdirection tactics and of course an extensive list of weaponology including the us of poisons.

The time table factor I mentioned previously ties to these factors in that you may, in the heat of battle, kick the Ninja's butt and chase him off, but a few hours after the combat you will begin to suffer certain physical health conditions as the result of certain seemingly clumsy strikes made by the assassin during the fight. On another front, when a Ninja is sneaking about to enter or exist a target facility or even making a "hit" on someone, they take the time factor into consideration so that non-lethal force can be applied; stifling and taking a "guard" out of play without causing major trauma. Certain strikes can render the victim "paralyzed" for as long as 30 minutes or exceptionally weak physically for a matter of hours. At the same time, a particular type of strike, let's say to the top of the head during the early morning hours, will result in an aneurysm and thus, probable death within a few hours if not treated immediately.

When I worked for the Dux Academy my job was to teach students about stealth and herbs/poisons. Needless to say, we are talking about the older students and not the 8 and 9 year olds. I worked closely with another teacher that specialized in rolls, tumbling, flips, etc. so that we could create training courses in which both skills were used (stealth/concealment with gymnastics).

Because of Hollywood (primarily) people build far too much romance around the legend of the Ninja, including belief that they had some kind of supernatural sense of training. While strong mental discipline was a must alongside a sense of spiritual commitment, the only thing that is semi-mystical when it comes to any aspect of the martial arts, is the issue of Ki/Chi. Science loves to negate it's validity while it is a factor deeply woven in Asian life (as well as that of the Jedi).
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