Discuss General Topics.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article ... rangeville
Frustrated with a futile three-day police search, the family of a missing Orangeville woman enlisted the help of a psychic and organized their own search party.
Less than two hours after setting out on foot, they found the lifeless bodies of Jeanine Blanchette, 21, and Chantal Dube, 17, in a wooded area in Orangeville.
Police have ruled out foul play and autopsy results won’t be known for several weeks, but the family of one of the young women believes they overdosed on prescription medication.
Blanchette’s family feels very strongly that Orangeville police didn’t do all they could to find the two young women.
The tragic story began on Tuesday when two friends received “goodbye” phone calls from Jeanine and Chantal and reported them to police. The young women also left behind goodbye letters to family members.
Jeanine’s mother Ellen Blanchette said the police responded quickly that day, but then didn’t take their concerns seriously as the week progressed. Instead, Ellen said, Orangeville police and OPP seemed to think the young women had run away.
“I thought they were on top of it,” Ellen said. “We put complete faith in the police, and that failed.”
On Wednesday, Ellen drove from her home in Oshawa with her sister and niece to Jeanine’s apartment in Orangeville. The house was a disaster, her computer was wiped of its memory, and the women found receipts for hundreds of antipsychotic pills, purchased at two separate pharmacies last Sunday and Monday.
They expressed their concerns to police, but Ellen said police kept saying the girls would turn up. She said one police officer bet her a week’s salary they would be found.
“They shook it off like it was an attention-grabber.”
“I wanted them to get moving,” Ellen said. “I knew if they took the pills they only had umpteen hours to get pumped.”
On Thursday, family members drove to Orangeville and posted 60 missing persons signs all over the town.
Desperate and frustrated, Ellen sought out Toronto-based psychic Sandra Mae Shaw, who had attended a family gathering to perform readings a few years ago.
“I just got this vision in my head of two girls in a field laying beside each other,” said Shaw, who said she’s never consulted on a case like this before or previously worked with police.
“Of course, it’s very difficult. You don’t want to tell them that their loved one is gone.”
“I said to (Ellen), you just tell police to look in the field close to her home. She’s there. I know she is.”
Ellen said Jeanine’s ex-boyfriend had told police earlier in the week that if the young women were going to go anywhere it would probably be near the place they met. She says police never searched that area.
Ellen’s 17-year-old nephew Bradley Walsh was the first one to spot the two figures in a wooded clearing on Friday, near the Dufferin Child and Family Services building in Orangeville where Blanchette and Dube met in a group-therapy session about nine months ago.
“I’ll never get their faces out of my head,” said Jolene Blanchette, Jeanine’s 19-year-old sister.
When Walsh started screaming, the rest of the family members ran toward the clearing.
Jolene remembers exactly how her big sister looked. Jeanine was lying on a blanket, curled into the fetal position, still wearing her glasses. Chantal was beside her.
“She looked peaceful,” Jolene said quietly, as she sat in the living room inside her mother’s Oshawa home on Sunday and relayed the story of the family’s desperate search with the help of her aunt, cousins and mother.
Blanchette and Dube had been dating each other since February. Jeanine’s family members said they do not believe their sexuality had anything to do with their deaths.
Orangeville police did not return repeated requests for comment Sunday. In a press release, the OPP said this case is not connected to any other ongoing police investigations.
Jeanine’s family said she started having mental health problems when she was about 15. She was a personal support worker who worked in a home for adults with disabilities, but had to take time off work when she started feeling depressed several months ago.
“She was just hurting,” Jolene said.
Jeanine admitted herself to a hospital in September. She was put on prescription medication and was released several days later. Her mother feels she was released too soon.
Family members said Jeanine was a deep thinker who wrote poetry and kept her feelings to herself.
“She was good at reading people,” said her grief-stricken mother, who sat stone-faced while telling her story. “She could read ya.”
There is a pause, and then one of her cousins adds, “And nobody could read her.”
I can be debated if the reporting and conversations occurred exactly as stated, but what cannot be debated is the fact that the girl's bodies were found almost immediately after consulting with a pscyhic.
You may be falling victim to the logical fallacy "post hoc ergo propter hoc" here.
That is when one assumes that because one event follpws another, the first is the cause of the second.
I believe I can see a very non-psychic explanation in this:
"Ellen said Jeanine’s ex-boyfriend had told police earlier in the week that if the young women were going to go anywhere it would probably be near the place they met. She says police never searched that area.
Ellen’s 17-year-old nephew Bradley Walsh was the first one to spot the two figures in a wooded clearing on Friday, near the Dufferin Child and Family Services building in Orangeville where Blanchette and Dube met in a group-therapy session about nine months ago."
It would seem that the ex's hunch is what led them to the bodies, not the psychic.
"It is proper for you to doubt ... do not go upon report ... do not go upon tradition ... do not go upon hear-say." ~ Buddha
Sorry I didn't reply earlier. This report presents a clearer timeline.
http://www.orangeville.com/news/local/a ... rangeville
In all probabilty, Sandra Mae probably was never told the information that the ex-boyfriend related to police. Nor would she have known of a field near the DCAFS building in Orangeville, which is also their hometown. The family may have connected the two .. ie .. near the place they met, look in the field.
The information the psychic gave is confirmed by herself, the mother at the house, and the family doing the search. And this is on several records. The mother relayed the information from the psychic to the family (probably by phone). The family were searching actively with the hope of finding the 2 girls alive.
Skeptics often charge that psychics are playing on their hopes and telling them what they want to hear, but this is clearly not the case here.
The psychic believes the girls are dead. She is correct.
The psychic believes they are laying down, next to each other. This is correct.
The psychic believes they are located in a field or nature area. She is correct.
The psychic believes they are located near the home. This is essentially correct, they are in the neighborhood or town. The family had a much larger search area and this narrowed it considerably.
The family took Sandra Mae's advice seriously and credit her with providing essential information to solve the case. Some skeptics have made the claim that psychics have never successfully solved a missing persons/body case. They can no longer make such a claim.
And you wish to not believe... so what?
If Psychics are so ineffective at investigative work... if they are being kudos based on misunderstanding of events and time-lines, etc. WHY do we have regular programs documenting successful work by Psychics with authorities, frequently skeptical professionals?
Skeptics love to split hairs so as to "prove' the lack of success known to psychic investigators; they simply do not want any form of affirmative credit to exists that might challenge their idea as to how everything works in the world. Yet, we have an amazing data bank filled with cases in which psychic involvement delivers "hit ratios" that go way outside chance, that have produced leads that proved out more than not.
Maybe it's time to stop trying so hard to put a spin on the details, play on the linguistics, etc. and simply accept that there is something "more" to it all than the anal-retentive auspices of rationalism, can actually explain/justify.
The way you've phrased it "hit ratios that go way outside chance" is the language of a scientific study. Do you have a link to one showing this? Let's discuss it.
My gosh.. really?
that´s your argument?
We also have shows about bigfoot and astrology!
does that means that astrology is real or that bigfoot exists?
gosh.. didnt know that just by being on tv it meant it was real
i guess some people see smallville and really thinks superman is flying
just because it is on tv
what? not yet?
i stopped watching the show on the 3rd season
Well, this is the last season and he is kindof, sortof flying... seems the new CK get's air sick
The various shows about Big Foot, etc. aren't even remotely the same as to the programs I've related... while I do find some of the new "documentaries" on Nessy & the Gang interesting, they are still rehash of the same material people were arguing about 30 years ago (for the most part). This is not the case when it comes to psychic investigation or the growing number of law enforcement professionals supporting such... many of whom WERE skeptics at one time for both, personal and professional (political) reasons. But, their experiences working with psychics over the years have given them reason to not just consider the alternative, but to no longer tolerate the "games" played within law enforcement (as an example) when one confirms positive psychic involvement.
We see this same game played in the Air Traffic Control vocation when it comes to UFO reports; pilots as well as traffic coordinators can loose their jobs if and when they report a UFO or any such statement that goes against the "approved" reports given by the USAF and other facets of the military. Even persons of impeccable background and recognized authority have seen their lives turned up-side-down and utterly destroyed if and when they make a statement that negates the "politically correct" explanation around things.
Rationalists and other such elements have gone out of their way to mock and demean anyone that makes claims pertaining to psychic feedback, UFOs and a long list of other such happenstance, INCLUDING those tied to Religious experiences... but then, Rome claims exclusivity when it comes to the miraculous and anyone non-Catholic (specifically) phenomena is obviously fraud and most likely "the devil's work"... but then many a Protestant believe that any "non-Christian" sect (including Catholicism) in which "miracles" happen, is the devil's work... I really wish these "christian" elements would figure out what the truth is and isn't
The point is, because of human pettiness we have one group constantly poking fun at and demeaning what others have experienced and come to understand. This is an extreme that actually prevents the supposedly "open minded" of the skeptic's world, from actually seeing anything beyond the tip of their nose;leaning on stock come-back lines and "explanations" along side the "prove it to me" mantra that's gotten them by for so very long... after all, you've given yourselves permission to not consider any thinking outside your pre-set box on any given issue. Placing the "onus" on the back of the claimant vs. stepping up to the plate to prove that their experiences and related manifestations didn't/couldn't be... beyond a shadow of doubt.
No, it won't fit into your little boxes or even function in accordance to the so-called "Scientific Standard" in that such things are NOT repeatable. It is not something that happens on command and because the skeptical world knows this, they use it to their advantage by calling it "proof" that such things are false and simply a matter of psychology and mis-remembering, etc. Wonderful theories, but not proof... worse yet, not proof that would live down to the very standards they attempt to impose on those that have "faith" and testimony around this sort of phenomena.
I'm very much a skeptic when it comes to many of the tall tales I hear about from withing the psychic/New Age element; I've simply seen far too much stupidity to not recognize that a great deal of what the skeptical refer to is in fact, correct. At the same time, I've seen and experienced far too much that goes to the contrary of this automatic assumption so many in today's world feel compelled to impose when it comes to such phenomena. The answer simply isn't as black & white as certain rationalist types, want to insist upon. There is nothing that can shake my view when it comes to this "middle ground" perspective in that this is where the truth resides... at least, in my experience and study.
Sure, but you act like that's all there is on the skeptic side. There are idiots everywhere. But in a typical JREF thread, for example, mixed in with the jibes are thoughtful and serious questions and examination.
It's all sort of a red herring anyway since someone being dismissive of the alien hypothesis is not evidence in favour of the alien hypothesis. There is still a huge leap from "I don't know what that is" to "it must be aliens!", no matter what the tone of the critique. These claims must be approached very skeptically. The alien hypothesis is extroadinary. Conclusions should be carefully determined. Arguments from ignorance should be avoided. There is nothing wrong with saying: I just don't know!
the thing is.. kevin quickly jumped to extraordinary conclussions
and there´s no way you can be so sure about the event
there´s not that much information, it isnt 100% that the psychic actually helped in the search
i would be very cautious to jump to conclussions, i wouldnt want to appear THAT irrational
why stop at psychics?
i can allege that bigfoot was the killer!
there´s no stop when you start with irrational thoughts
The family strongly affirm that they found the girls with the information provided by the psychic.
The evidence is .. they found the girls, just as the psychic described. The acted upon her advice, and they found them shortly afterwards, searching where the psychic told them to. And they credit the psychic.
I don't know how to tell you this, but this is a solid hit. 2 + 2 = 4
From the second news article you posted: "Ellen contacted Toronto-based psychic Sandra Mae Shaw, who had done readings for her previously, at 2:45 p.m. and recited a letter her daughter had written."
Do you happen to know what this letter said? If not, how can you conclude this was a "solid hit?" Without this knowledge of what was in the letter, in addition to other actual events outside of what was reported in newspapers, I'm not quite ready to claim this was a psychic event.
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