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Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby Arouet » 26 Apr 2012, 22:34

cecil1 wrote:You haven't read the act or even investigated the claims,


Yes I read the act. As for investigating the claims, I've been asking you to clarify what your claims are. You can see my response in the other thread (we should keep this conversation to one of the threads)

Ducking your head in the sand and crying your wrong you havent made your case when the evidence is right in front of your nose is not going to work with me sorry.


Well, I don't think you've made your case. I provided more detail in the other thread.
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby cecil1 » 26 Apr 2012, 23:02

Arouet wrote:
cecil1 wrote:You haven't read the act or even investigated the claims,


Yes I read the act. As for investigating the claims, I've been asking you to clarify what your claims are. You can see my response in the other thread (we should keep this conversation to one of the threads)

Ducking your head in the sand and crying your wrong you havent made your case when the evidence is right in front of your nose is not going to work with me sorry.


Well, I don't think you've made your case. I provided more detail in the other thread.



There's no point in discussing this with you, you refuse to educate yourself, you refuse to acknowledge this:

Trust property
(3) For greater certainty, for the purposes of this Act, a separate trust exists with respect to all assets, investments or property

Trust property
(3) For greater certainty, for the purposes of this Act, a separate trust exists with respect to all assets, investments or property

Trust property
(3) For greater certainty, for the purposes of this Act, a separate trust exists with respect to all assets, investments or property


How can you miss this? Are you blind? selective reading perhaps?
You just make shit up.
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby Arouet » 26 Apr 2012, 23:10

Why don't you site the entire provision?

Trust property

(3) For greater certainty, for the purposes of this Act, a separate trust exists with respect to all assets, investments or property held by a trustee under a trust instrument for the benefit of a person, group or class of persons, notwithstanding that under the same trust instrument different assets, investments or property are held for the benefit of a different person, group or class of persons.


This is a technical provision involving the law of trusts - for the purpose of that act alone.
How do you interpret this provision? What do you think it means? What implications do you think it has?
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby cecil1 » 26 Apr 2012, 23:16

Arouet wrote:Why don't you site the entire provision?

Trust property

(3) For greater certainty, for the purposes of this Act, a separate trust exists with respect to all assets, investments or property held by a trustee under a trust instrument for the benefit of a person, group or class of persons, notwithstanding that under the same trust instrument different assets, investments or property are held for the benefit of a different person, group or class of persons.


This is a technical provision involving the law of trusts - for the purpose of that act alone.
How do you interpret this provision? What do you think it means? What implications do you think it has?


Are you really a lawyer because your extremely ignorant of where the purpose of an act goes in the act itself.
It goes right under the title, Canadian Ownership and Control Determination Act
R.S.C., 1985, c. C-20
An Act respecting Canadian ownership and control determination


The government website i linked earlier even articles this as indivudals not business here look again deceptive troll.

Biography / Administrative history
The Petroleum Incentives Administration (PIA) was responsible for the administration of both the Petroleum Incentives Program Act and the Canadian Ownership and Control Determination Act, acts that were proclaimed in June and September, 1982, respectively. Under the terms of the Acts, the administration was broadly responsible for the collection, analysis and study of information pertaining to the determination of companies' and [url]individuals[/url] Canadian ownership rate and control status, and their eligibility for reimbursement of certain approved expenditures, as well as the development of policy and regulations.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_ ... nbr=190485

But you refuse to educate yourself... case closed. Enjoy your deception troll... you don't own anything the money simply passes through your hands as trustee.

The act says as much but it requires sincere investigation, not this face value take a word at a glance bullshit you espout. peace.
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby Arouet » 26 Apr 2012, 23:35

cecil1 wrote:
Are you really a lawyer because your extremely ignorant of where the purpose of an act goes in the act itself.


Yes, though this is far from my area of practice. But you are still misinterpreting what you are reading.

It goes right under the title, Canadian Ownership and Control Determination Act
R.S.C., 1985, c. C-20
An Act respecting Canadian ownership and control determination


Yes, because for certain regulatory purposes it is important that a business be owned and controlled by Canadians. These businesses are also legal persons - again, something necessary for the regulation of buiness - it would be very difficult to structure contracts without that.


The government website i linked earlier even articles this as indivudals not business here look again deceptive troll.


The entire context is about business. The act is about canadians contol and ownerhip of the business - not the government of canada owning people.

Biography / Administrative history
The Petroleum Incentives Administration (PIA) was responsible for the administration of both the Petroleum Incentives Program Act and the Canadian Ownership and Control Determination Act, acts that were proclaimed in June and September, 1982, respectively. Under the terms of the Acts, the administration was broadly responsible for the collection, analysis and study of information pertaining to the determination of companies' and [url]individuals[/url] Canadian ownership rate and control status, and their eligibility for reimbursement of certain approved expenditures, as well as the development of policy and regulations.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_ ... nbr=190485


Did you read the entry you quoted? This entire thing came out the National Energy Policy where the government put in massive protections of Canadian oil.

Within this broad and ambitious framework, PIA was specifically designed to address the problem of a secure and independent energy supply by encouraging the development of Canadian oil and gas resources and to increase the level of participation by Canadians in the petroleum exploration and development industry. The NEP, and the PIP played an absolutely critical role within this larger package, and represented the greatest degree of intervention on the part of the federal government as an active participant in the Canadian economy since the Second World War. Some recent analysts in fact, have argued that the NEP may have been the engine of the federal government economic development package for the early-1980s.


The Trudeau government wanted the oil companies to be Canadian owned and controlled. Hence a series of legislation including the Act you linked to. It is all about canadians owning and controlling businesses. It is not an act that defines a Canadian human being as owned by the crown.

You are taking technical legal provisions, cropping them, pulling them out of context and applying them in ways that they can't be applied.

But you refuse to educate yourself... case closed. Enjoy your deception troll... you don't own anything the money simply passes through your hands as trustee.


Again, you're not quite understanding what you are reading.

The act says as much but it requires sincere investigation, not this face value take a word at a glance bullshit you espout. peace.[/quote]
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby cecil1 » 27 Apr 2012, 00:00

Arouet wrote:
cecil1 wrote:
Are you really a lawyer because your extremely ignorant of where the purpose of an act goes in the act itself.


Yes, though this is far from my area of practice. But you are still misinterpreting what you are reading.
I disgree it's plainly obvious, what do you think the act is respecting?
It goes right under the title, Canadian Ownership and Control Determination Act
R.S.C., 1985, c. C-20
An Act respecting Canadian ownership and control determination


Yes, because for certain regulatory purposes it is important that a business be owned and controlled by Canadians. These businesses are also legal persons - again, something necessary for the regulation of buiness - it would be very difficult to structure contracts without that.

But the word business is not used, do you enjoy making shit up?

The government website i linked earlier even articles this as indivudals not business here look again deceptive troll.


The entire context is about business. The act is about canadians contol and ownerhip of the business - not the government of canada owning people.

Biography / Administrative history
The Petroleum Incentives Administration (PIA) was responsible for the administration of both the Petroleum Incentives Program Act and the Canadian Ownership and Control Determination Act, acts that were proclaimed in June and September, 1982, respectively. Under the terms of the Acts, the administration was broadly responsible for the collection, analysis and study of information pertaining to the determination of companies' and [url]individuals[/url] Canadian ownership rate and control status, and their eligibility for reimbursement of certain approved expenditures, as well as the development of policy and regulations.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_ ... nbr=190485


Did you read the entry you quoted? This entire thing came out the National Energy Policy where the government put in massive protections of Canadian oil.

Did you read what the terms of it were? Apparently the government feels individualss are a natural resource go figure.

Within this broad and ambitious framework, PIA was specifically designed to address the problem of a secure and independent energy supply by encouraging the development of Canadian oil and gas resources and to increase the level of participation by Canadians in the petroleum exploration and development industry. The NEP, and the PIP played an absolutely critical role within this larger package, and represented the greatest degree of intervention on the part of the federal government as an active participant in the Canadian economy since the Second World War. Some recent analysts in fact, have argued that the NEP may have been the engine of the federal government economic development package for the early-1980s.


How is the above relevant??? Where is the indivudals mentioned here???
The Trudeau government wanted the oil companies to be Canadian owned and controlled. Hence a series of legislation including the Act you linked to. It is all about canadians owning and controlling businesses. It is not an act that defines a Canadian human being as owned by the crown.

You are taking technical legal provisions, cropping them, pulling them out of context and applying them in ways that they can't be applied.

But you refuse to educate yourself... case closed. Enjoy your deception troll... you don't own anything the money simply passes through your hands as trustee.


Again, you're not quite understanding what you are reading.

The act says as much but it requires sincere investigation, not this face value take a word at a glance bullshit you espout. peace.
[/quote]

Oh ok I'll edit the act itself to conform to your interpretation... this'll be fun...
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby Arouet » 27 Apr 2012, 00:09

cecil, honestly, you just don't understand what you are reading. And I'm not going to give you an in depth legal lesson. I've explained to you what this act relates to. You can annotate the act all you want but that's not going to change the mistake you have made and I'm not going to go line by line through the act with you.

Why don't you do some research yourself and see if you can find an application of this act outside of the context I described. Why don't you apply to the government for the certificate of your ownership? See if they have something to give you?
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby cecil1 » 27 Apr 2012, 00:23

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts ... lText.html

Canadian Ownership and Control Determination Act
R.S.C., 1985, c. C-20
An Act respecting Canadian ownership and control determination
An Act respecting Whatever the hell Arouet wants this this to mean, the act itself is not relevant, what Arouet wants is

Trust property
(3) For greater certainty, for the purposes of this Act, a separate trust exists with respect to all assets, investments or property held by a trustee under a trust instrument for the benefit of a person, group or class of persons, notwithstanding that under the same trust instrument different assets, investments or property are held for the benefit of a different person, group or class of persons.
But the trust doesn't exist because Arouet says so

“control status” means, with respect to a person, whether or not the person is Canadian controlled as determined under this Act and the regulations;
But Not to Arouet, to him it's a business and only businesses.

“person” means an individual, a corporation, a partnership, a trust, a government, an agency of government, a segregated fund within the meaning of the regulations and an organization that is prescribed as being a person or that falls into a class of organizations prescribed as being persons;
But according to Arouet person is defined as business so if you don't see the word business in here you're sorely mistaken i'm sorry Arouet says you're wrong so you must be wrong, the law is what Arouet says the law is... thanks!
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby Arouet » 27 Apr 2012, 00:25

Here: this will help you with the context of the act: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.ns ... .html#sec1

As for your annotations, I've already explained to you how you are wrong. You just don't understand the law here.
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby cecil1 » 27 Apr 2012, 00:53

Arouet wrote:Here: this will help you with the context of the act: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.ns ... .html#sec1

As for your annotations, I've already explained to you how you are wrong. You just don't understand the law here.


I'm sorry but you've not investigated the definitions section of this act in question, I suggest you reread the sections and prepare to use at least a smidgeon of brain power my friend! After all you're seeing the word business where no word exists, can you point out where in this act the word business is defined as a person? Even the library and archives of the government of canada recognize the fact this pertains to individuals.

Perhaps you should stop being so lazy and just read the website here's the link again for you to read, maybe you will this time i'm not sure if you will but i'll keep trying... http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_ ... nbr=190485

Has anyone ever told you you're really awful at reading? You see words that don't exist and make up shit concerning what acts respect. This is beyond thick headed you simply don't want to understand the law.
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby Arouet » 27 Apr 2012, 01:07

Again, you don't understand what you are reading. This Act is relevant to federally regulated Canadian businesses where there is a requirement that they are Canadian owned and controlled. Take a look at the link I provided you - it gives an example of how to calculate if the business is so owned and controlled. You can then request a certificate under the act that will confirm the status.

You need to look up what a legal person is.

That link you attached does not support your interpretation at all - but it does support mine.

But don't take my word for it: go apply to the government for your certificate - see what you get!
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby cecil1 » 27 Apr 2012, 01:24

Arouet wrote:Again, you don't understand what you are reading. This Act is relevant to federally regulated Canadian businesses where there is a requirement that they are Canadian owned and controlled. Take a look at the link I provided you - it gives an example of how to calculate if the business is so owned and controlled. You can then request a certificate under the act that will confirm the status.

You need to look up what a legal person is.

That link you attached does not support your interpretation at all - but it does support mine.

But don't take my word for it: go apply to the government for your certificate - see what you get!


Again the act itself deals with those defintions except for the word business, you're making shit up, you're a liar.
Even the word person is defined, you simply want to be deceptive, there's no way anyone is this thick headed, local farmers understand the difference between the word individual, trust, corporation and business, how can you.. a self proclaimed lawyer not?

Business is not defined as a person at all in this act, This is beyond ignorant or stupid, you're spouting disinfo. Nobodies this thick.
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby Arouet » 27 Apr 2012, 01:25

Here, you can read this as well: http://www.mccarthy.ca/article_detail.aspx?id=4678

Although Canadian legislation requires that Canadians substantially own and control certain targeted industries (telecommunications operators, broadcasting licensees, domestic airlines and a number of cultural industries such as certain book publishing and retailing businesses), a few determined foreign investors have found investment opportunities by carefully navigating through these rules.
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby cecil1 » 27 Apr 2012, 01:38

Arouet wrote:Here, you can read this as well: http://www.mccarthy.ca/article_detail.aspx?id=4678

Although Canadian legislation requires that Canadians substantially own and control certain targeted industries (telecommunications operators, broadcasting licensees, domestic airlines and a number of cultural industries such as certain book publishing and retailing businesses), a few determined foreign investors have found investment opportunities by carefully navigating through these rules.


Here you can read this as well:

Evidentiary privilege
19. Notwithstanding any other Act or law, no person who obtains information or documentation under this Act shall be required, in connection with any legal proceedings, other than proceedings relating to the administration or enforcement of this Act or criminal proceedings under this Act or any other Act of Parliament, to give evidence relating to any information or documentation that is privileged under this Act or to produce any statement, document, writing or portion thereof containing any of that information or documentation.

1980-81-82-83, c. 107, s. 51.

So go ask the government, for all the good it will do, you are trying so very hard to be deceptive but it's coming off as obvious.

In order to be deceptive you should really try to avoid the fact that your in a corporate trust without your knowledge or consent.

So avoid this fact with all your might Arouet.
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Re: Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?

Postby Arouet » 27 Apr 2012, 01:47

cecil1 wrote:Evidentiary privilege
19. Notwithstanding any other Act or law, no person who obtains information or documentation under this Act shall be required, in connection with any legal proceedings, other than proceedings relating to the administration or enforcement of this Act or criminal proceedings under this Act or any other Act of Parliament, to give evidence relating to any information or documentation that is privileged under this Act or to produce any statement, document, writing or portion thereof containing any of that information or documentation.


Again, you do not understand what you are reading. This is a legal protection that prevents others from being able to require you to give over any documents or other information that you got from the government under this Act. The determination of whether you are a canadian owned business will require providing and receiving documents related to the internal working and setup of the business, including who is involved, etc. If you are a telecommunications company being sued by someone, for example, you cannot be compelled to produce the information you got from the government with regard to this act in that lawsuit.

So go ask the government, for all the good it will do, you are trying so very hard to be deceptive but it's coming off as obvious.


Obvious of what? Did you actually read the links I provided to you?

In order to be deceptive you should really try to avoid the fact that your in a corporate trust without your knowledge or consent.


Let's say that your interpretation is correct: how does it affect you in practice? What injustice can you relate to this?

So avoid this fact with all your might Arouet.[/quote]
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