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Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

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Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby NucleicAcid » 21 Apr 2010, 03:17

http://feeds.wired.com/%7Er/wired/index/%7E3/zWaX_5MVQdo/

“Things were so polarized in the ’60s. I think over the 40 years, the counterculture and the culture have changed. The culture is more receptive and the counterculture is more patient,” said Rick Doblin, a Harvard public policy Ph.D.-holder and the president of Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, or MAPS. “I think the vast majority of the people at the conference appreciate the scientific model and want to see the research move forward and think it’s a vehicle for change. There are a few that are into crystals and astrology, and then there are the vast majority, who are more scientific thinking.”


Science wouldn't touch the idea of mild-altering drugs as positive influences for decades. Now, they're realizing, "Hey, being opinionated gets in the way of real science." Again. For the umpteenth time since the beginning of history. Have to shake off a little hippie-woo in the process (yes, I said it, woo - we're talking hippies here, not psi practitioners, though some do use crystals. I personally haven't found much effect with crystals so I'm wary of the idea myself) but it's going there. Old ideas are moving over and giving rise to new ones.

Oh yeah, almost forgot:

Even Grof, an impeccably dressed Czech researcher with caterpillar eyebrows, who is considered a godfather of the more scientific side of psychedelic research, has a decidedly existential take on the potential of psychiatrics.

“The human drive for transcendence is even more powerful than the urge to have sex,” Grof said.


It puts new weight in the idea that maybe spirituality isn't just an evolutionary artifact, and in fact an extremely real and extremely important aspect of the human condition.
Hey, you there. Yes, you. Read more journal articles.

If what I say sounds like the teacher from Charlie Brown (Wah wahh woohh wuh waah), then you should try college. It's fun, and only costs you your soul and several tens of thousands of dollars. :)

“I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven“ - Richard Wiseman

Let's make directional hypotheses, test them repeatedly, replicate experiments, and publish results! Yay, science!
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby Nostradamus » 22 Apr 2010, 10:19

I am trying to find an article I recently read about petroglyph symbols and visions. It's killing me that I can't locate it. It discusses psychedelics and how people have similar images pop into their head like spirals and ladders and such that are found in petroglyphs in many different areas.
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby Nostradamus » 22 Apr 2010, 21:46

From http://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/ancientalteredst1456
There is another place you can reliably see these images, and that is inside your head. In the 1960s, neuropsychologists began cataloging the visual imagery of altered states of consciousness. Subjects given lsd or mescaline would lie on mattresses, describing their visions into researchers’ tape recorders. The first stage of the hallucinogenic experience—whether brought on by drugs, sensory deprivation, fasting, or rhythmic movement—is characterized by recurring geometric patterns, known variously as phosphenes or entoptics. The seven most common categories strike a familiar chord: grids, parallel lines, dots, zigzags, nested curves, meanders, and spirals.


Entoptic means within the eye. It’s believed that these geometric patterns derive from the optic system itself. In some instances, says Whitley, you’re basically seeing what’s in your eyeball. Retinal blood vessels and floaters—the faint squiggly lines that meander across the vision field—may be the anatomic inspiration for dots and meandering line entoptics. Concentric circles, spirals, and grids are probably generated by neurons firing in the visual cortex and the retina.


Anyways the article claims that these shapes, which uneducated conspiracy wackos claim is proof of aliens or whatever, is likely to be due to visions generated in our minds rather than things seen externally.
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby NucleicAcid » 24 Apr 2010, 01:22

Heh, when all you have is a hammer....seriously, those people take everything, absolutely everything, to be evidence of whatever flavor of crazy they believe.

I'm personally a fan of a slightly tweaked Stoned-ape hypothesis, which, coupled with the already-forming complex social structure, gave rise to specialization (groups of primates had already started to take care of the elderly and the weak), and one of your first dedicated classes to arise would be the shaman. The shaman serves as visionary, storyteller, and intellectual leader (yes I'm talking about bonobos and stuff, maybe early hominids, not quite sure, nor is anyone), serving as a repository for information, while the other classes dealt with food gathering and hunting. The shaman would help ideas and technology pass from one generation to the next, allowing for a wider array of learned tool behaviors. This enhanced specialization of social structure allowed us to evolve our monstrous noggins, which as a consequence makes babies much more vulnerable at birth and require more long term care from the mother. With chimpanzees, the baby comes out and pretty much climbs onto the mother's back. Bipedalism would have also evolved somewhere in this time period of rapid change, alongside brain development. These three factors - tight, structured community, brain enlargement, and bipedalism all sort of enabled each other, giving rise to your hominids, and finally Homo sapiens. I'm not sure when hominids started tripping balls on this timeline, but I think it was at least important catalyzing changes in the status-quo, so to speak.

Shamans would also have been the first to draw pictures, giving rise to the root of written language.
Hey, you there. Yes, you. Read more journal articles.

If what I say sounds like the teacher from Charlie Brown (Wah wahh woohh wuh waah), then you should try college. It's fun, and only costs you your soul and several tens of thousands of dollars. :)

“I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven“ - Richard Wiseman

Let's make directional hypotheses, test them repeatedly, replicate experiments, and publish results! Yay, science!
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby Nostradamus » 24 Apr 2010, 02:08

There's a w@cko named Lucus that suggests that the reason spirals are seen in many places around the world is that the failed rocket launch seen in Norway was seen by ancient man, and that the Russians are actually covering for a message from the Annuki that live on Nibiru with tales of a third stage rocket failure of the Bulava rocket.

( Talk about your run on sentences!)
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby NucleicAcid » 24 Apr 2010, 04:01

Naturally.

Or spirals are one of the most basic emergent properties of the universe.
The first property is unity - the ability of something to be seen as a distinct thing, or as many things to be perceived as one.
From unity you derive a cycle - all things eventually return to where they started in one way or another
Since you have a cycle, you have two opposing energies- one drives the movement forward, while another serves as the restoring force. This is duality, and a moving wave emerges.
As the wave progresses, it doesn't ever come back to exactly where it started. Hence, a spiral. Also derivable from the Fibonacci sequence, which is about as simple as you can get for emergent functions (apart from the series of natural number).

From just those principles, you can create all things in the universe. Hence why universal oneness, yin yangs, and spirals are super popular among spiritual people. However, like all things (as predicted by number 2) it can be taken to the extreme, and then it gets out of hand.
Hey, you there. Yes, you. Read more journal articles.

If what I say sounds like the teacher from Charlie Brown (Wah wahh woohh wuh waah), then you should try college. It's fun, and only costs you your soul and several tens of thousands of dollars. :)

“I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven“ - Richard Wiseman

Let's make directional hypotheses, test them repeatedly, replicate experiments, and publish results! Yay, science!
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby Nostradamus » 24 Apr 2010, 09:33

The problem with spirals is that they increase without bounds. There are other functions that can be used that are bounded. But then again they are hard to draw. a stick and a string does a spiral.
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby NucleicAcid » 24 Apr 2010, 21:11

It's not a problem, it's a feature! :-P No seriously, one of the things that makes spirals interesting is that they are infinite, but self-similar (fractal).
Hey, you there. Yes, you. Read more journal articles.

If what I say sounds like the teacher from Charlie Brown (Wah wahh woohh wuh waah), then you should try college. It's fun, and only costs you your soul and several tens of thousands of dollars. :)

“I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven“ - Richard Wiseman

Let's make directional hypotheses, test them repeatedly, replicate experiments, and publish results! Yay, science!
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby Nostradamus » 25 Apr 2010, 20:19

A spiral such as logarithmic spiral does not meet the requirements for a fractal. It is roughly radially symmetrical, not a fractal.
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby NucleicAcid » 25 Apr 2010, 23:55

Really? My bad.
Hey, you there. Yes, you. Read more journal articles.

If what I say sounds like the teacher from Charlie Brown (Wah wahh woohh wuh waah), then you should try college. It's fun, and only costs you your soul and several tens of thousands of dollars. :)

“I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven“ - Richard Wiseman

Let's make directional hypotheses, test them repeatedly, replicate experiments, and publish results! Yay, science!
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby jakesteele » 06 May 2010, 03:42

I am a child of the '60s and all that that implies. I took many a trip in my day on everything from LSD to peyote to 'schroom...did I mention LSD? I used to see paisley patterns a lot and would stare at a leaf and see the entire universe contained within and I would...?and, and...the wind cries Mary...
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby NucleicAcid » 07 May 2010, 22:18

I've been sick as hell lately and been pumping myself up with guanfenesin, dextromethorphan, pseudoephedrine, diphenhydramine, and paracetamol (basically NyQuil) and lately at night I've been seeing geometric pattens in my field of view, almost like paisley in fact, before I nod off at night. It was really pretty in fact, and it did sort of remind me of those renderings of a Brane style universe, with all the dimensions curled up on itself. 8-) Mmmm....unintentional psychedelics...

Incidentally, I've heard Robotripping is the worst thing ever.
Hey, you there. Yes, you. Read more journal articles.

If what I say sounds like the teacher from Charlie Brown (Wah wahh woohh wuh waah), then you should try college. It's fun, and only costs you your soul and several tens of thousands of dollars. :)

“I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven“ - Richard Wiseman

Let's make directional hypotheses, test them repeatedly, replicate experiments, and publish results! Yay, science!
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Re: Scientist find interesting stuff in once-taboo Psychedelia

Postby ProfWag » 08 May 2010, 00:03

jakesteele wrote:I am a child of the '60s and all that that implies. I took many a trip in my day on everything from LSD to peyote to 'schroom...did I mention LSD? I used to see paisley patterns a lot and would stare at a leaf and see the entire universe contained within and I would...?and, and...the wind cries Mary...

Did you ever ask Alice about those patters?

One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall

And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call
Call Alice
When she was just small

When men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving slow
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know

When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's "off with her head!"
Remember what the dormouse said;
"Keep YOUR HEAD
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