Why I think Astrology is real

[Scepcop]

I've always known that there was something to astrology, even though it's scientifically impossible by conventional laws of physics.

I've always had a kindred spirit and comfort zone with Cancers, for instance, that I didn't have with other signs. This was proven time and time again. In fact, there have been several occasions where I knew a person I just met was a Cancer even though they NEVER told me their birthdate or sign! I swear it.

Also, during my years of traveling, I find that an unusually high percentage of females I meet tend to be Aries. I'm talking a much higher percentage than a chance rate of 1 out of 12. Perhaps Aries signs are the most likely to talk to strangers? I don't know, but there's no denying that I meet them the most often.

Therefore, the skeptics like James Randi and John Stossel of ABC who claim that Astrology is all about general claims that apply to anyone is WRONG in my view and reflect total IGNORANCE of Astrology on their part.

No system, even a metaphysical one, is perfect or infallible. But Astrology definitely does get SPECIFICS about a person right that chance or educated guesses do not. And I'm talking about specifics that do not apply to anyone.

It gets even more accurate when you use Indian Vedic Astrology or Chinese Purple Heart Astrology, which is based on I Ching principles. Readings from those systems have even pinpointed specific years when certain things would happen in my life which came true, as well as specific addiction and talents that I possess, which do NOT apply to most people.

Simply put, the skeptics are wrong. What they say, even though it's scientific, goes against my firsthand experience. And it's unfortunate that they are too closed minded to admit that there are forces in the multi-dimensional universe that they don't understand.

[Scepcop]

Response from my spiritual advisor:

" I do agree with what you say Winston but it was not until I was able to understand HOW astrology works that it began to make any sense to me.

I remember one day, I was standing in a checkout line ... in a very well to do town when the person in front of me picked up an Astrology paper. My first thought was one of surprise since they were dressed in an upscale tennis outfit and appeared to be well educated. I thought WHY would an intelligent person be interested in such things? As I stood there contemplating this I got this FLASH of insight.... direct from within .... and IT revealed .... The Universe is always finding ways to speak to each of us ... all the time. If .... we are OPEN to receive information through an astrology newspaper..then that is HOW The Universe will speak to us. IF we are more comfortable receiving information via tea leaves.. then Knowledge will come to us through tea leaves.. or reading bones, or palms, or.. whatever. The medium does not actually matter.... but our receptiveness to that media DOES MATTER. Truth can be read on the back of a cerial box... for those who have the eyes to "see" it.

A problem often arrises though when people try to INTERPRET the message. If we try to interject our own desires and THINKING process into the mix it can easily get garbled. There is a huge difference between pure information from one's Higher SELF and the THINKING process of our finite minds, which is typically tainted with desires and erronious beliefs. To hear the PURE message we need to be detached from our desires and fears.

It's a bit like when we're taking a test and we're not sure of the answer. Typically the first answer that "pops" into our minds is the correct one.... but as we allow our thinking (intellectual) minds to doubt, ruminate and ponder.. that can take us away from the pure spontanious answer. This spontanious knowledge, from our all knowing Higher SELF, without any intellectual effort, is called umesha .. a bursting forth of Pure Consciousness.

I might have mentioned before how I once asked The Master how these particular "Contemplation Cards" were always SO "right on". It was beyond uncanny how accurate they were.. so I knew they worked .. but I wanted to know HOW.
The Master revealed... there is nothing ON the Card. The Mind puts it there. In fact..there is NO CARD!... well... I finally got it... it is the power of the mind which creates ALL physical as well as non physical experiences, be they individual or shared. Everything happens from WITHIN.

This is why those great BEings such as Jesus, Krishna and The Buddha, etc.. continually taught their students to look WITHIN... because there lies the source of all experience. Higher SELF ( Pure Consciousness) becomes the mind (non physical/non local) and the mind then creates everything we experience.. be it individually or shared, physical or non physical.

We believe what the senses report to us and so perceive a rock, or whatever .... as being a physical thing that has an independent existance outside of ourselves.. but really it doesn't, just as a dream does not have any REAL existance outside of ourselves even though we are typically totally convinced.. say during a nightmare..that the "monster" actually exists. Well, in a way it does .. it exists as a creation of our own mind which we then experience. We awaken from dreams and say.. OH that wasn't "real". In much the same way we eventually AWAKEN from this experience of LIFE... as individual beings, and as rocks, other people, etc. having an independent existance outside of us. Ultimately we "see" that nothing exists independently from our True unlimited Self.
We come to recognize... I AM THAT.
Peace, Faith"

[ciscop]

theres a particulary interesting thing in psychology called Forer Effect
a lot of magicians have used this to fool people
most recently criss angel on his mindfreak series and penn and teller on bullshit

[Scepcop]

Can you explain or summarize this Forer effect and why it's relevant to Astrology, or to what I said above?

[NinjaPuppy]

[Scepcop]

[NinjaPuppy]

[Scepcop]

If it doesn't apply to my examples, then why did the skeptic bring it up? This is an example of what I call "trying to force unrelated explanations into the data". It's like they don't even read what you write. It's very aggravating.

[Scepcop]

Ninjapuppy, did you see this show where Skeptic Michael Shermer gets debunked by an Astrologer on his own show? lol

[NinjaPuppy]

[ciscop]

the forer effect
straight from wikipedia
read it and tell me how accurate it is
this test is done in psychology courses all over the world (thats how i learn it)

In 1948, psychologist Bertram R. Forer gave a personality test to his students. Afterward, he told his students they were each receiving a unique personality analysis that was based on the test's results and to rate their analysis on a scale of 0 (very poor) to 5 (excellent) on how well it applied to themselves. In reality, each received the same analysis:

“ You have a need for other people to like and admire you, and yet you tend to be critical of yourself. While you have some personality weaknesses you are generally able to compensate for them. You have considerable unused capacity that you have not turned to your advantage. Disciplined and self-controlled on the outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure on the inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You also pride yourself as an independent thinker; and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. But you have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, and sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, and reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be rather unrealistic. ”

On average, the rating was 4.26, but only after the ratings were turned in was it revealed that each student had received identical copies assembled by Forer from various horoscopes.[2]

but here is an example which is more interesting
this is the forer effect mixed with a little bit of cold reading and a lot of flatery (we tend to accept flatery rather easily)

[NinjaPuppy]

[Scepcop]

I don't know about the comment by Virginia Bowen. She didn't give any reasons or explanations for what she said, so I can't critique other than see it as just her subjective opinion.

To ciscop: Thanks for posting that, but the point is that we were talking about highly specific hits that do not apply to everyone, so the forer effect does not apply here.

Unless of course, you are trying to commit this:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/explanations.php

[NinjaPuppy]

[Eteponge]

Derren Brown in that clip states that he used general cold reading to develop a general personality chart that could pretty much apply to anybody. A bunch of vague, general information, where no matter who has it, it will seem significant to them.

However, what he did in the video was a plain and simple out and out Strawman. Tabloid Astrology, the sort you find in the newpaper, which most people think is astrology, is not the real form of astrology. Tabloid Astrology is the one that deals with vague generalities and such drawn from just your star sign. However, Vedic Astrology and Chinsese Astrology are FAR more accurate, and need FAR more than just your star sign to write out a chart.

That video clip where Michael Shermer (Randi's right hand man) did a controlled experiment with a Vedic Astrologer specifically, it was not "vague generalities", and he was HIGHLY accurate, on some persons as high as 90%, and when Michael Shermer mixed up two of the subject's readings without telling them (to attempt to suggest that they could apply to anybody), the accuracy plummeted to around 10% to 20% accurate (showing his were very specific to the person), but when he admitted he switched them, and read the right ones back to the right person, the result was back to 80%-90%. So, that these charts were sooo specific, even though he wasn't allowed to meet these people, highly suggests there is something to Vedic Astrology, the deeper type.

I've also seen other skeptics do a strawman astrology test where they just use tabloid astrology mixed with cold reading generalities and then ask to people to tell them which chart is theirs, and they are all the same. But, it's just a strawman. It's not using real Vedic Astrology or Chinese Astrology from an actual Astrologer in those fields. With the Michael Shermer program, he did use a real one, and the video shown how specific the readings can be. Pummeting to very low accuracy when given to the wrong person, even when they are not told about this.