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Why I think astrology is false

Discuss Divination, Fortune Telling - Astrology, Tarot, Runes, I Ching, Tea Leaves, etc. and Predictions.

Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 19 Dec 2009, 06:04

ProfWag wrote:
Don wrote:
ProfWag wrote:As I aluded to earlier, until one is ready to present evidence in a mature manner, I will not participate in this discussion that is obviously going nowhere.
I have been called a liar. Perhaps I have misunderstood a comment for which I'll apologize, but being called a liar is rather incorrect. I believe I might even need an apology. Oh, and a hug.



So like the little baby you are you'll just take your ball and go home.
This is the final typical phase of the activities of debunkers.
When people don't bow to their bullying, they just say they won't play.
If you didn't understand what I clearly wrote you are either a liar or a moron.
I took the high road and assumed you were not a moron.
However, you can take your ball and go now.
It's okay.
There. There.
Maybe if you're lucky, mommy will give you cookies and milk.


Thanks Don. My Mom died a couple months ago so I really appreciate milk and cookies comment. I tried to get this thread back on track through my last post, but unfortunately, I see you'd rather throw insults than discuss my questions.


Boo hoo. Now, after threatening to take your ball and go home, you try to guilt me for YOUR behavior.

Look. You've come here admitting you know nothing about astrology and you're going to refuse to study anything about it, but you know it's false. You're presenting yourself like the people who put the "God said it. I believe it. That settles it." bumper stickers on their car.

Your questions are fair. The problem is, you don't like the answers. "Wah! Wah! He's bad because he won't tell me how to make nuclear bombs. Instead he wants me actually read books."

You see, even though the questions are fair, you're trying to control the conversation so that you're always right. That's simple bullying behavior, and many people have learned that the way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them.

IF your mother actually did die a few months ago, as mine did, then I honestly and sincerely offer my deepest sympathy.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 19 Dec 2009, 06:06

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Don wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:Don - My comment was to ND about his comment 'English is not your forte'.


My mistake.
I apologize for "speaking" out of turn.
Still, you might enjoy the URL :mrgreen:

For the record there Mr. Smartypants... I have read the entire Internet. :lol:


Damn! Where do you get the time? :?:
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 19 Dec 2009, 06:36

ProfWag wrote:First, apology accepted on the science thing. Second, I am an Adjunct Professor of Management. Doesn't make me any more intelligent than you or anyone else. I don't think I pretent to be. Third, I don't even remember any more what it was you're saying I misrepresented you about. Was it that I interpreted you going to conferences for 20 years as going to astrology conferences for 20 years? If so, that's not a lie, that's a simple misunderstanding. I pride myself in not being a liar or a moron. Hence, why I'm getting defensive, but you know that.
Thanks for the rest of the information as it was actually worth a read. I'm going to read it again later and let it soak in. Also, have you noticed I've started a couple other threads in the Astrology forum? I was hoping you'd comment on my "What is astrology and How does it Work? I'd like to see where I'm going wrong.


Really? You mean you got to be an Adjunct Professor and are no more intelligent than people who can't get anything beyond a minimum wage job? I don't buy it. My GF is studying risk management and project management in order to take the test to be certified. I've seen the materials and people of average intelligence won't cut it.

A mystic I read wrote, "An ounce of honest pride is worth a ton of dishonest modesty." Man up, dude!

I don't think you're a moron. Perhaps being called out for holding dogmatic, closed-minded views upset you. I know that having a mirror held up can upset anyone and cause them to overlook something and read it they way they want rather than the way it is.

I can give you a simple "answer" (you'll see what it's in quotes) as to the reason some people claim astrology works.

Different people give different reasons. I've seen some far-fetched ones. The royal astronomer for England about 20 years ago infuriated the debunkers by saying that astrology was real and was based on interstellar microgravity, of which he was acknowledged as the world's leading authority.

Not only do I not know how or why it works (if it does), but I don't care. When I push my foot down on the gas pedal, my car goes. I don't need to know about pistons, oxygen sensors, or fuel jets. It's known as "black boxing." Something goes into the black box; something else comes out. I push down on the gas pedal sending a message to the black box. My car moves forward.

Most people don't know that when you send a message over the internet, it's quite likely that it is blasted into pieces (called "packets") that go all over the world and then are reassembled, in order, at their point of arrival. How does that work? I don't know. I just know that it works. I know that multithreaded processors, if you have applications that can use them, "work" faster than processors that aren't multithreaded. Exactly how that works I don't know, but I use it every day.

So my answer is I don't know and I don't care. My concern is far more: does it work? That is a statistical problem, not a theoretical one. Right now, most research has been anecdotal (or using too small a sample) to be valid. As I pointed out earlier, unless someone comes up with thousands and thousands of dollars, nobody's going to do that research. In most cases, the people doing the research have agendas, usually debunking agendas. So unless something changes, nobody is going to do the valid, objective study to statistically prove astrology (or more likely, aspects of astrology) are valid. Note that I've never said I thought that parts of astrologer were valid, only that they seemed valid. Larger samples may prove or disprove that seeming relationship.

And there's another problem, too. Would someone have to show that if X then Y 100% of the time for astrology to be valid? Last night, on TV, I saw a commercial for a new drug that crowed about being effective 47% of the time whereas a placebo was only effective 19% of the time. I don't think that debunkers would say astrology was effective if it was proven accurate 47% of the time, but drugs on which people depend for their very lives, and which make pharmaceutical companies hundreds of millions of dollars think it's just wonderful!

So I don't care how astrology works, I'm only interested if it does work. I don't have the statistic to prove it, although in some instances it seems as if aspects of it are likely. If someone else is interested in how and why it works, good for them.

Over 25 years ago I received a copy of my horoscope in the mail. Just a chart with a bunch of symbols on it. A person whom I just met and who knew nothing about me took a look at it and said my two major interests in life were music and philosophy. He had no way of knowing that I had just graduated from UCLA with a degree in philosophy and was making money by playing in a band. At the time, I thought that was my future.

How did he know that from looking at my chart?

Does that experience prove astrology works? Nope. It's just an interesting story. At best it's anecdotal evidence and nothing more.

Still, you tell me how he knew. Luck? Chance? He saw me wearing a pipe organ on my back? Well, except for the last item (I wasn't wearing it) I don't know.

Therefore, I apologize for calling you a liar, withdraw the comment, and request that anyone reading these threads ignore it as an error on my part.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby NinjaPuppy » 19 Dec 2009, 07:04

Don wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:For the record there Mr. Smartypants... I have read the entire Internet. :lol:


Damn! Where do you get the time? :?:

Haven't you noticed that I'm always on this forum? I've been on here since 2am and still going strong. 8-)
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ProfWag » 19 Dec 2009, 20:57

Let me preface this by saying that due to my computer getting a virus from this website yet again, this will by my last visit to the website. It's been a lot of fun. I will try again in a few weeks to see if the virus is still there, but if so it will be my last.
Now, back to why I think astrology is false. In August, 2005, approximately 1 million people were displaced from Hurrican Katrina. Of those in the months and years leading up to that event, how many were told by an astrologer that they were about to experience something of catastrophic proportions and needed to move? I have heard of none, but that doesn't mean there wasn't someone. Yet, presumably, there would have been many, many who read horoscopes or had readings prior to that shouyld have known if astrology was valid. I realize my evidence is andectodal as well, but it's why I think astrology is false. Oh, and also based on the thread "My 100% accurate astrology reading," I think many of them are fraudulent as well. I believe much, much more harm than good comes from astrology.
Happy Holidays to everyone and best wishes to you. I hope this virus thing can get fixed as I truly enjoy all of your "company."
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Dec 2009, 10:46

Why do you care what others think about astrology?
Why is this important to you?
How is this different from wondering if people have been "saved?"
How is this different from asking, "Have you found Jesus?"
Where are the thousands of years of evidence for cucumberism?


Lots of questions.
1. I don't
2. Interested in whether or not it works
3. No idea - as far as I know these are separate issues
4. No idea
5.The same place the thousands of years of evidence for astrology are located
Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Dec 2009, 10:53

When people don't bow to their bullying, they just say they won't play.
If you didn't understand what I clearly wrote you are either a liar or a moron.

I think Don actually believes that his writing is clear. How odd.

Don't you get it? You've stated why you think astrology is false. You've shown that all of your understanding of astrology is based on a refusal to study anything about astrology. That's like deciding the Earth is flat based on nothing.

Don is a fanatical arguer with poor points, and poor style.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 03 Jan 2010, 08:40

ProfWag wrote:Now, back to why I think astrology is false. In August, 2005, approximately 1 million people were displaced from Hurrican Katrina. Of those in the months and years leading up to that event, how many were told by an astrologer that they were about to experience something of catastrophic proportions and needed to move? I have heard of none, but that doesn't mean there wasn't someone. Yet, presumably, there would have been many, many who read horoscopes or had readings prior to that shouyld have known if astrology was valid. I realize my evidence is andectodal as well, but it's why I think astrology is false. Oh, and also based on the thread "My 100% accurate astrology reading," I think many of them are fraudulent as well. I believe much, much more harm than good comes from astrology.
Happy Holidays to everyone and best wishes to you. I hope this virus thing can get fixed as I truly enjoy all of your "company."
ProfWag



This is the typical comment of a debunker, not a person who follows the scientific method.

He has come to a conclusion which he admits is based on nothing. No study. No training. No practice, No nothing.

He refuses to study anything on the subject.

And yet, he has come to the conclusion that the myth he has invented as to what astrology is supposed to be must work the way it works in his fantasy, or it is false.

In fact, ProfWag is absolutely correct. In his fantasy of what astrology is supposed to be, in his fantasy based on nothing but his imagination, the astrology he has invented doesn't work.

Right now, he is like Humpty Dumpty in Through the Looking Glass who says that "When I use a word ...it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." So it doesn't matter whether or not your meaning has any basis in real astrology. You can set up your straw man on your flat earth and believe that you've proven that astrology is false.

In fact, all you've proven is that you don't understand logic, that you are an example of bad science, and you are so dedicated to your religion of scientism that you don't care that you're harming the very scientific inquiry into reality you claim to admire.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 03 Jan 2010, 08:42

Nostradamus wrote:I think Don actually believes that his writing is clear. How odd.


You're probably right. Usually I write for adults. When I write for you in the future I'll write down to your level and only use short words and short sentences to match the short bus you take when you go to the "special" school.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Jan 2010, 12:27

And yet, he has come to the conclusion that the myth he has invented as to what astrology is supposed to be must work the way it works in his fantasy, or it is false.

Same old trite argument that the 'real' astrology has not been investigated. It's a failure - again.

Usually I write for adults.

Clearly wrong. Thanks for your other silly statements. I can't wait for you to graduate from third grade.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ProfWag » 04 Jan 2010, 19:05

Don wrote:
This is the typical comment of a debunker, not a person who follows the scientific method.

He has come to a conclusion which he admits is based on nothing. No study. No training. No practice, No nothing.

He refuses to study anything on the subject.

And yet, he has come to the conclusion that the myth he has invented as to what astrology is supposed to be must work the way it works in his fantasy, or it is false.

In fact, ProfWag is absolutely correct. In his fantasy of what astrology is supposed to be, in his fantasy based on nothing but his imagination, the astrology he has invented doesn't work.

Right now, he is like Humpty Dumpty in Through the Looking Glass who says that "When I use a word ...it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." So it doesn't matter whether or not your meaning has any basis in real astrology. You can set up your straw man on your flat earth and believe that you've proven that astrology is false.

In fact, all you've proven is that you don't understand logic, that you are an example of bad science, and you are so dedicated to your religion of scientism that you don't care that you're harming the very scientific inquiry into reality you claim to admire.

Yes, yes, yes Don. Clearly on topic and adds much to the discussion as to why people should or should not think astrology is false. :roll: Sarcasm intentional.
As I've stated previously, I have nothing to do with the scientific community other than using them as references in research which I have done on at least two occasions in this thread and other references in other threads that you don't care to comment on.
You know Don, for someone who claims and claims that he doesn't know if astrology is true or not, you sure are rude to those that don't believe in it, yet appear supportive of those who do. Things that make me go "hmmmmm."
Last edited by ProfWag on 06 Jan 2010, 05:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ciscop » 06 Jan 2010, 04:29



this is a nice video
from richard dawkins Enemies of reason

is kind of funny
i bet don will get mad at it
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Kevin Kane » 09 Feb 2010, 17:24

I watched the Dawkins video and laughed at how silly it is. Dawkins set out to falsify results, and achieved what he set out to do. What he doesn't take into account in his non-scientific experiment is the intent of himself and his testers, and the general affability of people to accommodate someone who is intent on doing something (in a friendly manner).

I could do a similar test with people on the street, saying things like: Einstein's favorite color was blue. Do you think the color blue makes people smarter?

Why yes, come to think of it. I do think that.

PS: searching .. Einstein's favorite color was maybe yellow or red.


And the other problem I have with the experiemnt is the ethics of defrauding people for science, to prove a point or further an agenda.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ciscop » 10 Feb 2010, 03:36

Kevin Kane wrote:I watched the Dawkins video and laughed at how silly it is. Dawkins set out to falsify results, and achieved what he set out to do. What he doesn't take into account in his non-scientific experiment is the intent of himself and his testers, and the general affability of people to accommodate someone who is intent on doing something (in a friendly manner).

I could do a similar test with people on the street, saying things like: Einstein's favorite color was blue. Do you think the color blue makes people smarter?

Why yes, come to think of it. I do think that.

PS: searching .. Einstein's favorite color was maybe yellow or red.


And the other problem I have with the experiemnt is the ethics of defrauding people for science, to prove a point or further an agenda.


yet you dont have a saying whether astrology is bunk or is not?

see? you only attack skeptics
because they burst your lunatic bubble you live into
you dont like that

even if a skeptic says something like purple unicorns arent real you will try to disprove it with whatever dumb argument
that´s a bad way of entering a debate
you are not discussing the point.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 01 Jun 2010, 14:17

ciscop wrote:

this is a nice video
from richard dawkins Enemies of reason

is kind of funny
i bet don will get mad at it



No, I feel sorry for people who do idiotic things and think they're doing something important, logical, or scientific. I feel disappointed and saddened at people who are so set in their dogma that they'll cling to illogic rather than actually investigate something.

Getting mad is a waste of time.
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