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Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Discuss Ancient Mysteries and Places - Atlantis, The Pyramids, Stonehenge, etc. Also Forbidden Archaeology.

Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby Scepcop » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:57 am

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“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby Craig Browning » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:11 pm

Scepcop... damn it man, you make it so hard to be supportive :twisted:

While we have sold very interesting research that supports the idea that the Egyptians were far more advanced in large water navigation the handful of possible proofs that are even remotely viable when it comes to their act of "trade" let alone minor colonization, are still being argued. One of the larger sites being in Australia and I believe there is a site in the Greek Isles as well that smacks of being of strong Egyptian influence. The Grand Canyon and St. Lewis Valley areas where Pyramids and Hieroglyphs have been found (and in the case of St. Louise "Buried" by presidential decree... memory serving) are more closely associated with the migration of Central American tribes as well as actual Trade Routes used by the Indian Nations (this land was far more advanced economically, socially and even on the technological level than current history supports... history always being written by the winners...) In fact, there are other Pyramid structures in the U.S. mainland that have only recently been identified and to my knowledge, not yet investigated to anything other than cursory levels.

Yes, there is a hypothesis that ocean going vessels from in around the Nile/Mediterranean region ended up on the coast of Peru. There is suspicion but no direct correlation when it comes to an authoritative commitment in which we know this group came directly from Egypt let alone, on purpose. Only that early archeologist and anthropologists found some interesting parallels when looking at things during their era. What we have to keep in mind is that "their era" was about the same time line as when Walter Budge and others were exploiting... I mean, exploring Egypt and so the overlapping views, including those of James Churchward, can be readily found tied around one another (though Churchward and Budge would later be views as "questionable")

Admittedly, I've not watched this footage and what I've said is just a knee jerk based on the idea being put forth. It's simply too fantastic based on what we know as academic fact pertaining to both, the Egyptians as well as the earliest inhabitants of the Americas. There's simply no direct link and even the more common Bearing Straight theory is having lots of holes put through it now days... but that's another issue altogether.

I'm begging you though, stop buying into all these wild ideas. It hurts your credibility and knowing what I know about your personal "vision" on things, this is very important. Discuss things, sure. But be careful what you support and why you support it; take a look at things from a wider field of focus and as with everything I personally encourage, get as much time as you can "in the trenches" actually working on or around the "thing" in question. For an example, how I and other skeptics work within the psychic community as both, observers and educators (not to mention the Consumer Watch Dog side of things).

;)
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby Scepcop » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:31 pm

Craig,
Pay attention. I am not asserting things with these posts, merely asking questions.

What is wrong with that? Are some questions taboo? Are some views closed to new information?

I don't think anyone is claiming that the Egyptians might have been able to sail to America. I think the theory is that they went to America when all the continents were merged into one super pangea.

There is nothing wrong with considering possibilities.
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby ciscop » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:03 am

craig? what are you saying?
Dowsing is possible! but Egyptians in the Grand Canyon.. that is just nuts!?
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby ciscop » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:53 am

by the way scescop... i guess you dont know it but
the pangea was 200million years ago
... and that was way before the egyptians
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby Craig Browning » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:51 am

Scepcop... apologies for getting things confused (sadly, I'm not processing information too well of late... a bad MS Flare started recently)... as I have seen and read some of your postings they sound as if you are supporting all kinds of highly questionable material... things that don't fit the character of the person I first met, if you know what I mean.

ciscop I honestly don't know why you feel you must be a putz and constantly make jabs towards me simply because I have experience with something you don't and nor are you likely to ever actually seek out that sort of thing. You simply wish to embrace one explanation vs. looking at the greater possibilities tied to something that's been used for thousands of years and is still trusted by engineers and actual scientist in some cases, who work with government agencies developing systems for the military and other such groups. If it's so completely bogus why would this sort of thing still be going on? Why are dowsing type methods still being taught to Army Engineers and Special Ops types, including ordnance handlers? Why are so many mines, wells, and other such resources found via dowsing, still producing and surpassing original estimates?

Passing the Randi challenge means diddly squat in the real world. Not only wouldn't the JREF members insist on a re-test should such a thing happen, I'm confident that hell itself would be found in a deep, deep ice age before a single viable penny is awarded to the psychic/dowser/alien or whatever that beats the game. But even if everything were on the up and up and no major problems arouse, the poor sod that wins will be hurranged by other skeptic groups insisting that "out test is better and more rigid" and of course that famed contention that several different groups would have to run tests in order to fully validate the findings... in plain English that means that the "scientists" are looking for a way to prove the triumphant is still a fraud no matter what... they can't accept the fact that "it" may actually be plausible... there is no satisfying the non-believer no matter what the claims are and how much validation is extant.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter and there is absolutely no reason to keep beating the dead horse. Such antics only sustain the idea that you're quite immature and little other.
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby ciscop » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:40 am

well
you wont put your abilities to a test right?
forget randi
theres many others
just prove once and for all that dowsing is possible. you are nothing but excuses.. JUST DO A TEST
you wont, you will still battle and talk loud, but you wont prove it to the world. common, get off your chair and do it
you know what other practice we had that was a thousand years old?
trepanation!.. good thing we arent primitives anymore.. why should we keep that stupidness alive?

is just a scam for the naive
here is a link to a report when they banned the dowsing rods in thailand, afganistan and irak
because THEY DONT WORK, it is just a scam


here is the report
http://viewfromll2.com/2010/01/22/jim-mccormick-director-of-atsc-has-finally-been-arrested-but-why-did-it-take-so-long-why-are-ade-651s-still-being-exported-and-why-is-gary-bolton-still-free/
now.. go and prove the world you are the one that can actually do it...
oh thats right.. you cant, cause skeptics will never believe it.. thats the same reason i dont fly everywhere..
excuses, excuses, excuses

now... lets go back and talk about Ancient Egyptians crossing over and living in the great canyon during the Pangea.. i think it could have happened during the Jurassic period (uuuh,,,, nope)
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby Craig Browning » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:12 pm

I've said it a thousand times, I don't jump through hoops. Just as I've pointed out above, I might prove things to one group and then another group of "Skeptics" will yell and say I must step up and do their test, etc. etc etc. It's a no win scenario that places the "tested" into a state of perpetual harassment by the pseudo-intellectual that simply wants to be a prick.

I'm tested regularly by my patrons be it during a Reading, locating missing "things" or managing my own health issues. The resulting testimonies of clients, students, and those that attend my talks tends to speak a bit favorable and supportive. Many "skeptics" have found themselves able to accept things more readily after working with me because I keep things simple and "fat free". But I've likewise managed to help the more zealous believer to tame their fervor enough to consider the mundane. If that's not "testing" and being able to prove out not just my skills but my philosophy around this stuff, I don't know what is. But the fact is I'm not a lab rat and I don't feel like wasting my time or money I don't have just to prove something to a group of egos who will walk into the testing with their minds already made up and the goal of proving one more claimant to be a fool and a fraud.

All this testing stuff is an ego trip for both, the "intellects" staging them and the fools willing to play their game; both are seeking recognition of some form and both have a pre-set agenda, its' that simple.
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby NinjaPuppy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:14 pm

Agree.
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby really? » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:08 am

Craig Browning wrote:
All this testing stuff is an ego trip for both, the "intellects" staging them and the fools willing to play their game; both are seeking recognition of some form and both have a pre-set agenda, its' that simple.


No, it's not an ego trip we want to know what real and what ain't.
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby really? » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:17 am

You know what's funny about stories like this is that all the sites seem more interested in perpetuating the idea rather than actually do some detective work in an attempt to find out if these persons actually lived. Then from there find out where they worked lived... It seems the truth is far less important than the mystery.
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby NinjaPuppy » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:39 am

really? wrote:You know what's funny about stories like this is that all the sites seem more interested in perpetuating the idea rather than actually do some detective work in an attempt to find out if these persons actually lived. Then from there find out where they worked lived... It seems the truth is far less important than the mystery.

Usually it's a very simple fact. It all boils down to what will sell more newspapers or get higher rating shares in the media. Truth doesn't have a thing to do with the equation.
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby Craig Browning » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:19 pm

No, no... not Newspapers... copies of the NATIONAL ENQUIRER and other such tabloids who focus on folks living a Trailer Trash mentality. :lol:

As to the comment by really? about "just wanting to know what's real and whats not" it goes back to what I said... constant harassment by the intellectual bullies that don't want to believe in a thing. No matter how many times a "Psychic" might prove themselves, you guys won't be satisfied, so where's the fairness and integrity to that? There isn't any and you know you're deceiving yourself to think otherwise. The whole "rationalism" contention IS a massive ego trip by a bunch of bored, unhappy geeks that feel they have the right to single out and harass people just because they can. It gets quite old. :geek:
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby really? » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:31 pm

Craig Browning wrote:No, no... not Newspapers... copies of the NATIONAL ENQUIRER and other such tabloids who focus on folks living a Trailer Trash mentality. :lol:

As to the comment by really? about "just wanting to know what's real and whats not" it goes back to what I said... constant harassment by the intellectual bullies that don't want to believe in a thing. No matter how many times a "Psychic" might prove themselves, you guys won't be satisfied, so where's the fairness and integrity to that? There isn't any and you know you're deceiving yourself to think otherwise. The whole "rationalism" contention IS a massive ego trip by a bunch of bored, unhappy geeks that feel they have the right to single out and harass people just because they can. It gets quite old. :geek:


Golly I didn't realize you had such a high opinion of us and me. :).
So what should we 'Intellectuals' do ? Just take this fantastic claim at face value ?
Kincaid’s boss, Professor S.A. Jordan of the Smithsonian – who were financing the expedition – was said to be enthusiastic that the find be further investigated, as it was of ‘major significance’. Kincaid had found, about 2000 feet up the canyon wall above the Colorado river – some forty-two miles upstream from the El Tovar crystal canyon – a cave entrance to a vast underground city, chiseled from the solid rock. [it would have taken a lot of Egyptians to do this engineering feat.] my bolding

There were steps up to the cave, suggesting that the river level had been that high when the inhabitants had lived there. This would mean at least 3000 years had passed since then! This citadel was almost a mile underground, and was very precisely carved, in geometric patterns, over an enormous area. Kincaid reported that several hundred rooms had been discovered, but that the full extent of the ‘city’ was still impossible to estimate.

Perhaps the most startling find was the great hall, about 100 feet in from the cave entrance. This contained a carved idol (presumably of the god these people worshipped), which he described thus: The idol sits cross-legged, with lotus flower or lily in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, and the carving shows a skilful hand, being remarkably well preserved. It resembles Buddha, and though scientists are unsure of its religious import, it reminds them


No what we intellectuals do is look for facts which is what this site that the OP linked to and all the other sites that perpetuate this urban legend didn't do look for supporting facts. So here's a fact about the climate of the southwestern US.


Late Holocene Climate and Cultural Changes in the Southwestern United States

Victor J. Polyak,* Yemane Asmerom

Columnar stalagmites in caves of the Guadalupe Mountains during the late Holocene record a 4000-year annually resolved climate history for the southwestern United States. Annual banding, hiatuses, and high-precision uranium-series dating show a present day-like climate from 4000 to 3000 years ago, following a drier middle Holocene. A distinctly wetter and cooler period from 3000 to 800 years ago was followed by a period of present day-like conditions, with the exception of a slightly wetter interval from 440 to 290 years before the present. The stalagmite record correlates well with the archaeological record of changes in cultural activities of indigenous people. Such climate change may help to explain evidence of dwelling abandonment and population redistribution.

Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences, University of New Mexico, 200 Yale Boulevard, Albuquerque, NM 87131, USA.
* To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: polyak@unm.edu


Firstly, it seems to me that at 3000 years ago a large population might have had trouble growing crops and finding game enough to support themselves. Secondly, as far as I know there are no tales in the cultural memories of the native americans of this region that talk of a peoples from far away. Which leads me at this moment in time to believe it's just a made up story.
With that said what do you do Craig ? I think you don't do anything but just keep on whining about how we intellectuals spoil it for you.
Last edited by really? on Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Ancient Egyptians inhabit the Grand Canyon?

Postby Nostradamus » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:22 am

I didn't bother to look at the source article. The Grand Canyon? Are you kidding me? If you wanted to live in a crappy place where it is hard to get around and there is limited arable land and little in the way of natural resources I'd move to the Grand Canyon. That has to be a dumb --- idea that makes 2012 look plausible. It wasn't exactly hopping with locals. There are much better places to be. There are places nearby with wood, shelter, water, etc.
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