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Noah's Ark Found!!!!

Discuss Ancient Mysteries and Places - Atlantis, The Pyramids, Stonehenge, etc. Also Forbidden Archaeology.
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Noah's Ark Found!!!!

Postby ciscop » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:57 pm


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this was kind of exciting
Web sites are buzzing over claims that remains from Noah’s Ark may have been found on Turkey’s Mount Ararat. The finders, led by an evangelical group, say they are "99.9 percent" that a wooden structure found on the mountainside was part of a ship that housed the Biblical Noah, his family and a menagerie of creatures during a giant flood 4,800 years ago.

But researchers who have spent decades studying the region – and fending off past claims of ark discoveries – caution that a boatload of skepticism is in order.

"You have to take everything out of context except the Bible to get something tolerable, and they're not even working much with the Bible," said Paul Zimansky, an archaeologist and historian at Stony Brook University who specializes in the Near East - and especially the region around Ararat, known as Urartu.

Cornell archaeologist Peter Ian Kuniholm, who has focused on Turkey for decades, was even more direct - saying that the reported find is a "crock."

The quest to find remnants of the Bible's most famous cargo ship goes back to, well, virtually biblical times (or at least back to the time of the ancient historian Josephus). In the Book of Genesis, God tells Noah to build a boat that would be longer than a modern-day football field and more than three stories high. Animals were sent to seek shelter in the ship and ride out a flood that wiped out the entire world.

Zimansky points out that Genesis identifies the mountains of Urartu (a.k.a. Ararat) as the landing zone for the ark, but not a specific peak. Over the centuries, 16,946-foot Mount Ararat and the nearby boat-shaped Durupinar rock formation have emerged as the favored locales for ark-hunters. (Others, meanwhile, have looked for evidence of an ancient flood in Turkey's Black Sea region or Iran.)

It seems as if evidence of the ark pops up at least every couple of years - and not always in the same place. The latest report appears to follow up on a 2007 expedition that came upon a wooden structure "in the interiors of an unusual cave" at the 14,700-foot level of Ararat's slopes.


http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 80442.aspx
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)






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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Nostradamus » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:31 am



Isn't it weird that a Christian group used carbon dating. It's weird because it implies this group believes in it and that makes the world older than whatever a fundamentalist group would like. Anyways 4800 years ago is 2800BC which puts the date right in the 2nd dynasty in Egypt. That would put the flood cutting right across a continuous civilization.
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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Nostradamus » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:42 am



If you look at the photos that have been released by the group you see cramped little areas which look more like spartan human lodgings rather than a place for animals. The dimensions shown are small.
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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Nostradamus » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:02 am



From http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/
Latest Ark finding is a fake


To make a long story short: this is all reported to be a fake. The photos were reputed to have been taken off site near the Black Sea, but the film footage the Chinese now have was shot on location on Mt. Ararat. In the late summer of 2008 ten Kurdish workers hired by Parasut, the guide used by the Chinese, are said to have planted large wood beams taken from an old structure in the Black Sea area (where the photos were originally taken) at the Mt. Ararat site.


The hoax is being exposed by another Creationist.
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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby ProfWag » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:25 am



Ah damn, and here I was ready to go to church on Sunday with proof of the flood. Oh well, I guess I'll give what I was going to put in the offering to those in need instead.

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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby ciscop » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:09 am



wow
that was a quick one to fall down

what i find kind of interesting
was that it was a team of chinese and turkish evangelist???

well.. too bad
it was exciting thinking it could happened at least for one night
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)

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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Nostradamus » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:19 pm



The Christian Science Monitor has verified that the leaked email is indeed from Randall Price.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-Issues/2010/0428/Doubt-cast-on-Noah-s-ark-found-in-Turkey

Price declined to elaborate. However, a leaked email from Price – which he confirms that he wrote – shows that he has reason to believe that a group of local Kurdish men trucked wood up to the mountain and staged an elaborate hoax for the Chinese team.
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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Craig Browning » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:14 am



Nostradamus wrote:Isn't it weird that a Christian group used carbon dating. It's weird because it implies this group believes in it and that makes the world older than whatever a fundamentalist group would like. Anyways 4800 years ago is 2800BC which puts the date right in the 2nd dynasty in Egypt. That would put the flood cutting right across a continuous civilization.


Especially when you consider how often they've bashed carbon dating for being inaccurate... such as how old the world is, fossils, etc. :lol:

Seems that "they" keep finding the Ark about every three decades or so... we've had Satellite photos of it (which turned out to be a trick created by the rocks on the location the ship was found at). Then we have the tall tales of various Orthodox monks that made relics from the wood of Noah's Ark (just as they have the original cross amongst other things).

Those that patronize the christian cult idea are desperate to find anything that's tangible, to validate their claims (especially given the fact that JC didn't show up on the turn of the millennium like he was supposed to). The medieval trends around relics is but one early example of this desperation, more contemporary demonstrations have included the very recent embrace of scientific views that sustain the plausibility of the whole Moses story and the famed Plagues of Egypt... views that were denied for centuries in some instances (such as how a massive Volcano caused the water to turn "to blood" and the hale to fall from the sky in flames, etc.) When it comes to the whole Noah story there is a new POV that's cropped up in recent years...

Physically the largest ships currently afloat could not contain two of each animal living on the planet right now let alone the food needed for an unknown duration of time, etc. With this as a primary fact, coupled with the fact that the size of the Ark pales in comparison, the new theory is that a specific "foundation" group representing each breed, etc. was taken... a kind of DNA inference if you would, but it still doesn't add up. But there is more that the christian element refuses to consider...

There are stories of great floods that can be found around the globe, one theory being that a planetary shift may have cause a kind of liquefaction affect, while there are likewise alternate theories, the most important to note is the fact that many of these tales which take place in North America for example, happened at a different point in time from Noah/Gilgameshs' flood. Here, if we are to consider the chronology of events based on biblical accounts and archeological theories pertaining to time, etc. we find that it is only within a large but constricted region that the inundation took place... the "known" world at the time of Noah... a centuries old man who built a massive ship without any experience in ship-building let alone sea fairing navigation, etc.; a wooden vessel that most every present day engineer agrees, wouldn't be able to survive the physical stresses such an intense storm would generate, once afloat.

Pardon my "rant" but the whole push by Christian "researchers" to find tangible proof of what they believe irritates that hell out of me these days, mainly due to how, as noted above, they are changing their song in ways that allow them to exploit just enough science (if you can call it that) to sustain the idea as to how god pulls this and that off.

:idea: Oh... there is likewise the fact that the biblical story says "The Mountains of Ararat" NOT one specific mountain. Too, over the centuries several different high peaks in that mountain range have been dubbed Ararat simply so the locals to exploit Christian adventurers looking for the lost boat... it did wonders for the local economy (and still does, it would seem).

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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Nostradamus » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:42 am



Craig what is interesting is that Ararat is a volcano that last went off in 1840.

I've been to some creationist talks and they get really defensive about the flood tale, because they know it's the weakest link in the chain. There is no evidence of a global flood. There is no source for the water. Not everything is lost when going to one of these sessions in which I have to avoid smirking at the claims.

In the talks they point to the Chinese treasure ships. The size of the ships is in dispute, but the claim is that someof the ships were 400 feet in length making them the biggest wooden ships ever built.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world%27s_largest_wooden_ships
These ships are listed under the unconfirmed category.

Also here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_ship
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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Craig Browning » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:53 am



Wow... those articles seem to sustain much of what I've heard and read about over the years.

I did forget to mention another legend about big barge like boats... but then anyone that's studied the Book of Mormon should know it :twisted:

No, given how many times the christian community (and sometimes the Jewish antiquities body) have been taken in by deliberate deceptions, such as the famed Pomegranate from Salomon's Temple or the yet argued burial box of "James brother of Jesus" (found in a cache of other austuaries tied to the same family... or so it would seem)... then again, the same "antiques dealer" seems to be tied to both :lol: Even the bible... the actual book... remains in dispute from within the theological and scholarly ranks of "the Church" (Christianity as a whole), so how can any genuine validity exist, even when the tome which serves as its cornerstone, remains in debate some 1700 years (give or take a few decades here and there) after the earliest attempts of making it into a single text?

There's not one single first century document that's been accepted as "true" (whatever that means) in existence, the earliest fragments of the oldest accepted Gospel (Mark) are but copies of copies of copies some 150+ years after the fact. Even Paul's personal mail (that's become scripture) isn't original with him but rather copies of copies all of it with some grotesque errors, additions, twists & turns, etc.

:? This is something that really gets me a bit bent

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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Nostradamus » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:46 pm



It's my understanding that the gospels were written by people that were not there. They are not copies of earlier authors, but the words of people who were not there to witness the events. The accounts from the 4 gospels differ somewhat. I can't remember what is considered to be the historical order, but the earliest of the 4 accounts is simpler with greater embellishments in the last of the 4. Isn't that how a story goes?
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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby ciscop » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:28 pm



yep
there was a documentary
pretty neat
called the ¨god who wasnt there¨

here is the part in question
[googlevid]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=696492648668420724#[/googlevid]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 668420724#
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)

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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Nostradamus » Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:15 pm



From http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-Issues/2010/0430/Chinese-explorers-stand-by-claim-of-Noah-s-Ark-find-in-Turkey

Seems that the Chinese explorers are not going to admit this is a hoax

Two members of the search team that claims to have found Noah’s Ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey responded to skepticism by saying that there is no plausible explanation for what they found other than it is the fabled biblical boat that floated on a flooded earth for 40 days and 40 nights.


The bible says that the rains stopped after 40 days, but that the ark was afloat for over 300 days before the passengers could disembark. I guess the reporter didn't understand that part of the story even if they work for the Christian Science Monitor.
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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Craig Browning » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:24 pm



Nostradamus wrote:It's my understanding that the gospels were written by people that were not there. They are not copies of earlier authors, but the words of people who were not there to witness the events. The accounts from the 4 gospels differ somewhat. I can't remember what is considered to be the historical order, but the earliest of the 4 accounts is simpler with greater embellishments in the last of the 4. Isn't that how a story goes?


Right and wrong... much of the original message was spread via oratory but unlike most religions Christianity already had written material to reference in the form of the Torah and by example, started jotting down "flowered" versions to how things went, etc. Even at that, there are no existing first century remnants outside of some very limited portions of Paul's letters. Ironically he is more of the main player in the New Testament than Jesus given the amount of ink the man is given as well as seeming authority... this coming from a man that had never met JC and yet had the audacity to preach against the 12 claiming that they did not know the true message of Christ (even though he has tentative relationships with one or two of the lads supposedly... problem is, Paul didn't come onto the scene until 60 years after JC & Co... at least that's how I understand things and how his few documents are dated).

What happened in those early times was simple; this teacher and that teacher would take the original manuscripts given to them by the remaining 11 disciples (now made evangelists or missionaries if you would) and use them in public readings or private meetings. As the parchment aged and it would be copied, similarly copies would by purchased by members of the fellowship. As time went on some of the scribes and priests that worked with scribes would change information here and there in order (for an example) to make Rome look more innocent while painting the Jews along side their arrogant priestly sect as being the bad guys... the one's that demanded the death of JC. One of the biggest changes made was Constantine's insistence that the essence and powers of the high Gods of Rome be superimposed within and around the personage of JC... but then Constantine was High Priest of the Sol Invictus cult which is one of the reasons Christians moved the Sabbath to Sunday vs. Saturday and a myriad of other "little adaptations" like usurping the traditional pagan holy days, transforming their mythos and symbolism so as to reflect the miracle of Christ.

It's all quite an interesting thing to study, I've been doing so for 30 years off and on and still find new tid bits and curious points of view to gnaw on. ;)

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Re: Noah's arc found!!!!

Postby Nostradamus » Sat May 01, 2010 4:42 am



I watched the video and it appeared to be really interesting - possibly quite factual. How odd for an online video? Who would have thought that was possible?
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