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TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

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TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby quantumparanormal » 06 Oct 2009, 02:31

I'm heavily biased against this group and their show, 'Ghost Hunters'. I believe they fake "evidence" in order to boost their ratings. In "my book," they rank right up there with fraudulent psychics.

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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby NinjaPuppy » 06 Oct 2009, 04:45

You must remember, it is a TV show. There is no 'scientific evidence' associated with what TAPS does. They are more concerned with ratings than with the actual findings and even if the cast are somewhat serious about what they do, they have a production crew and editing crew who decides what will be shown to the viewing audience.

If you think that the water bottle incident was bad, then you haven't seen the debunking of 'collargate'.
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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby WhiteTiger » 06 Oct 2009, 05:07

Odd... I don't see how this constitutes any evidence of fraud by TAPS.

It's a boathouse, normally since they are often open to the outside the windows aren't screened. The logical inference from the open window evidence is that someone outside the boathouse opened the window in order to reach in and move the bottle, then left without closing the window. While such a hypothetical hoaxster could be a TAPS employee or member, there isn't a shred of anything to indicate that and it's just as likely to have been someone involved with the property or just a local anxious to get their hands into the "bigtime tv show" for bragging rights at the tavern.



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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby quantumparanormal » 06 Oct 2009, 07:35

NinjaPuppy wrote:If you think that the water bottle incident was bad, then you haven't seen the debunking of 'collargate'.


I haven't watched GH since mid-2007. Can you post a reference to what you're referring? Thanks.
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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby quantumparanormal » 06 Oct 2009, 07:42

WhiteTiger wrote:Odd... I don't see how this constitutes any evidence of fraud by TAPS.

It's a boathouse, normally since they are often open to the outside the windows aren't screened. The logical inference from the open window evidence is that someone outside the boathouse opened the window in order to reach in and move the bottle, then left without closing the window. While such a hypothetical hoaxster could be a TAPS employee or member, there isn't a shred of anything to indicate that and it's just as likely to have been someone involved with the property or just a local anxious to get their hands into the "bigtime tv show" for bragging rights at the tavern.



Tiger


Correct, which is why I said I am heavily biased against TAPS. There are several possibilities. Which is the most likeliest? I'm voting for the possibility that they [TAPS] did that on purpose (i.e, make it seem as though a "ghost" moved the bottle). Is it a possibility someone from the outside (TAPS crew or not) could have moved the bottle from position A to position B? Sure, but what reason would there be for doing so other than to suggest a "ghost" moved it? Do I have evidence to "prove" my theory? Absolutely not. Again, hence, my bias, but I admit that. However, I never claimed I knew for a fact TAPS faked evidence, or that it's proven. This is evidenced by my usage of certain, telling words, such as 'believe' and 'biased'.
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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby WhiteTiger » 06 Oct 2009, 08:01

Sorry I wasn't clear. I wasn't addressing your post, but rather the title on that youtube vid, since no one was caught doing anything, and certainly nothing was correctly debunked.

I'll admit to a bias against TAPS myself, since they quickly made it clear that the show is about the ratings and income and not much about the paranormal. The show is much more "human drama" with assorted cast members beating their lips at each other and jumping and shrieking for the camera than it is about actually looking for anything, imo

In this particular "debunking" instance, I find it amusing that an open window is considered by the vid poster as evidence that nothing paranormal happened, when the case is actually that opening a window shouldn't be any more difficult a para action than moving a water bottle would be. Of course, the hardcore debunkers are usually real short on logic and problem assessment ;)

Rather like the collargate thing... there is a vital distinction between "could be" and "is" that all too often goes missing. By the logic of the collargate vid, there is no such thing as a surgical laser since I have never seen one and the exact same effects can be achieved with a properly applied hot blade. [irony]Obviously those who believe in surgical lasers are wild eyed fanatics who will buy anything that supports their faith in the AMA including "obviously fake" medical shows that are all about the ratings and the money, and medical personnel with a vested financial interest in perpetuating the myth ;) [/irony]



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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby ciscop » 06 Oct 2009, 09:27

hahahaha
i actually enjoy those shows
i find them amusing
anything paranormal i like it

however there are shows like paranormal state where i find it really awful what they do with the ¨victims¨ of these cases
in one case i remember.. a kid say he saw ghosts in the house and stuff like it.. a
instead of sending the poor kid to a psychologist and see why he was seeing ghosts
they reassure those ghosts were real!! man.. thats low!
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby brett » 06 Oct 2009, 12:28

well if you think THOSE are bad ciscop - you wanna try "most haunted " - jeez they make TAPS look like a bunch of amateurs in the "shit and giggles " department ( and have a thing about videoing nose hair - er why do these supposed investigators always want to film themselves?? - are not any ghosts the other way ?? - duh oh )

i don't care if they fake stuff or not - this TV ghost hunting crap is what IS and HAS destroyed the credibility of paranormal research , created the wannabe groups and put many locations off limits for serious researchers AND debunkers , by making it clear to owners that there's big money to be made from charging groups etc for access and encouraging the production of dubious if not down right FAKE hauntings :evil:

of interest a call went out from one program for supposedly haunted locations /houses and 66,000 people claimed they had haunted properties in the UK alone ( they all probably just wanted their 15 minuits of fame ?? )

today it's all "MOTIVE " BE IT MONEY , FAME , PERSONAL EGO whatever , there are very few "genuine" researchers out here now , vis the ones who do this purely for knowledge and personal answers ( you can tell us , because WE are the ones who never get called in - well who wants a ghost hunter that is prepared to say "there is nothing here " /"this is a motive job " / in other words tell the truth ) - people have become conditioned by these programs and expect results !!

sadly the paranormal has become a business - pure and simple with "personalities " ( on both sides of the argument ) who are making a nice little earner out of it ( look at how many web sites have a "donations" button for instance )

but i get told that "why should people NOT make money out of the "interest " - well to me it STINKS !! :evil: :evil:

AND BEFORE ANY OF YOU POUNCE ON ME ,and say but you are a woo , well so i may be in many peoples eyes because i GENUINLY believe there IS something to all this , BUT and as those who know me , will also know i have long pressed for HONEST , GENUINE investigation , have long stated the above and other non popular views on the current state of the interest - and make NO apologies for doing so !!

BUT WHATS THE POINT ?? - no one is interested in what i have to say , as my views are too "negative" for even the real woo's - and in fact have been berated not a few days ago by one site forum i visited for stating this and the discrimination disabled people face in this interest ( but that's another subject ) and was told quote : " we don't want posts like that here - please don't post any more "

its a bugger when one is not a skeptic and not a woo "WOO " - no one wants to know you :roll:

so THIS is why i class my self as an "independent" researcher - then i can do things my way to my standards ( eg lets get to the truth - WHATEVER that may be ) - and can do what i do for my own satisfaction and knowledge - rather than any ulterior motives - most of which i abhor !!

so to sum up this rant :lol: - there is ONLY one way to do proper investigation of a supposedly active location and that is proper longitudinal study , not one off shit and giggles ,overnight investigations , or TV specials - with proper research of historical and factual evidence of supposed and actual inhabitants of the location , proper recording of alleged incidences over a long period by the current residents , and the first step ALWAYS being to question the MOTIVES of those occupiers !!

does this attitude make me popular in paranormal circles ?? - yes as popular as a bad smell !! ( actually i think the skeptics are more popular sometimes :lol: :lol: )

time to stop all the BS people - and get back to real research - IMO

ho hum ....................... :roll:
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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby NinjaPuppy » 06 Oct 2009, 20:56

Bret wrote:i don't care if they fake stuff or not - this TV ghost hunting crap is what IS and HAS destroyed the credibility of paranormal research , created the wannabe groups and put many locations off limits for serious researchers AND debunkers , by making it clear to owners that there's big money to be made from charging groups etc for access and encouraging the production of dubious if not down right FAKE hauntings

I am more amazed at how the TV shows have changed people's minds about 'ghosts'. It used to be that a location deemed 'haunted' was avoided and/or feared. Now they are considered in vogue.

Bret wrote:of interest a call went out from one program for supposedly haunted locations /houses and 66,000 people claimed they had haunted properties in the UK alone ( they all probably just wanted their 15 minuits of fame ?? )

today it's all "MOTIVE " BE IT MONEY , FAME , PERSONAL EGO whatever , there are very few "genuine" researchers out here now , vis the ones who do this purely for knowledge and personal answers ( you can tell us , because WE are the ones who never get called in - well who wants a ghost hunter that is prepared to say "there is nothing here " /"this is a motive job " / in other words tell the truth ) - people have become conditioned by these programs and expect results !!

sadly the paranormal has become a business - pure and simple with "personalities " ( on both sides of the argument ) who are making a nice little earner out of it ( look at how many web sites have a "donations" button for instance )

Yes, the paranormal has become a business. A big business with a major cash flow attached to it to those who have no conscious and specifically look for those people who are easy targets.

Bret wrote:AND BEFORE ANY OF YOU POUNCE ON ME ,and say but you are a woo , well so i may be in many peoples eyes because i GENUINLY believe there IS something to all this , BUT and as those who know me , will also know i have long pressed for HONEST , GENUINE investigation , have long stated the above and other non popular views on the current state of the interest - and make NO apologies for doing so !!

I'd like to think that it's only p-skeptics that have the attitude that there is absolutely NO possibility that 'ghosts' exist. A skeptic would know that absolutely NO scientific edvidence of 'ghosts' currently exists or they would doubt the credibility of the findings at this time. Even if there is some pretty good unexplained 'stuff' available out there, it's of a very questionable nature. The 'moving water bottle' incident is a perfect example of 'stuff' that becomes perfect fodder to shoot down any possible findings worth following up.
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Re: TAPS "caught faking evidence?"

Postby Nostradamus » 07 Oct 2009, 11:31

The 'moving water bottle' incident is a perfect example of 'stuff' that becomes perfect fodder to shoot down any possible findings worth following up.


Well stated NinjaPuppy. I think that there may be interesting things out there to study, but it becomes more difficult to find it with all of the marlarky out there.
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