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Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

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Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby Eteponge » 09 Jul 2009, 12:56

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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby ProfWag » 10 Aug 2009, 22:34



A serious question for ALL believers: Did you first become a believer in psychics and/or other paranormal claims from watching television shows such as "Unsolved Mysteries," "In Search Of," etc? I really am interested in your honest thoughts in this...
Wag
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby NinjaPuppy » 10 Aug 2009, 23:41

ProfWag wrote:A serious question for ALL believers: Did you first become a believer in psychics and/or other paranormal claims from watching television shows such as "Unsolved Mysteries," "In Search Of," etc? I really am interested in your honest thoughts in this...
Wag


I personally began to wonder about the merits of psychics when I experienced it first hand. It was by observing and listening to police detectives being open minded enough to take into consideration any possible lead in a difficult case without prejudice or preconceived notions. It formed my opinion of how information of all types is required to make an educated decision. I also saw first hand on how to use ALL information received and how the most unusual and unbelieveable comments could sometimes be the information that was the most useful.

As a matter of fact, there is only one person that made an impression on me from a television show. I remember, as a young child seeing 'The Amazing Randi' on a television show called, "Wonderama" (with Sonny Fox). I used to enjoy his segments. The man taught me not to take things at face value but to question all possibilities. Perhaps I took his message at the time out of context because I can't recall him ever making a blanket statement either pro or con about anything deemed paranormal. Of course as time went by, his debunking skills became legendary and he took a stand against deceit and trickery. He is amazing in the fact that he has stood by his beliefs and talents in bringing countless numbers of frauds to light. Other than that, I had no new information on him until finding this website. My original opinion of this man has been shaken by some of the comments but not from those who disagree with him. It's from the ones who claim to follow him. If I was under the impression that ALL information was to be questioned and evaluated before forming a personal opinion, then his followers prove me wrong in thinking that was Mr. Randi's original concept, with their standard thought process of eliminating any possibility that the information even exists in anything more than the persons mind.
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby ProfWag » 11 Aug 2009, 02:05

Thank you for the post NinjaPuppy. I'm a little concerned that we skeptics are called "followers" of Randi. That sounds like I'm in a cult. Maybe there are some people who follow him as if his organization is a cult, but I'm certainly not one of them and neither are a lot of skeptics I'm familiar with. I'm in agreement with many things that he says, but there are also things he says that I don't agree with (use of the term "woo" disturbs me greatly.) Then again, I don't agree with some things my own wife says. In any event, I appreciate his efforts in digging out fraud and exposing those who claim things that are untrue. Frauds in any capacity hurt society as a whole. With that, I support many of his efforts. I also support Shermer, Penn and Teller, and a host of other people who seek the truth and expose the frauds.
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby Eteponge » 11 Aug 2009, 05:40

ProfWag wrote:A serious question for ALL believers: Did you first become a believer in psychics and/or other paranormal claims from watching television shows such as "Unsolved Mysteries," "In Search Of," etc? I really am interested in your honest thoughts in this...
Wag

With Dorothy Allison, it was my first exposure, the Unsolved Mysteries episode. Then years later, when I came online, I found Skeptic Articles on her, which didn't adequately deal with her best cases (leaving out many many many important veridical hits and even distorting the facts). I then sought out many other sources on Dorothy Allison, such as the book Scott Jacobson wrote about it, for additional information ...

The book gives a number of her known misses (that you can find mentioned in Skeptic Articles) as well as her known hits, in full context. It gives cases where she got valuable information, and cases where she did not. These are not hidden. It's very open about what she got right and what she didn't. About this book I mentioned (long out of print and a good source on her) ...

"Material for this book was gathered from several sources. Dorothy's own retelling of the stories has been supported by newspaper and magazine articles and signed affidavits from many of the parties involved. In most cases, the families of the victims have cooperated fully, regardless of the fact that the interviews stirred unpleasent memories. Many of the law-enforcement officers involved have also given generously of their time in recounting their experiences with the psychic detective." - Scott Jacobson in Foreward to 'Dorothy Allison: A Psychic Story'

The Unsolved Mysteries episode's information matches the data I've gathered from other sources on her. And it not only interviewed Dorothy Allison, but also the actual Police Detectives that she worked with, and the actual family members of the victims. I was surprised, that episode was so well done, had interviews with the most important people of the cases.

There was another program that profiled some of Dorothy's cases, but I can't remember the name of it.
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby The Professor » 11 Aug 2009, 10:03

Many people have had Paranormal Experiences that have solved many crime cases!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSED TO TEST FOR A MILLION DOLLARS
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby Ozz » 11 Aug 2009, 15:01

The Professor wrote:Many people have had Paranormal Experiences that have solved many crime cases!!!!


This is untrue, and I don't think you are capable of pointing to one concrete example of where a case was solved via someones "paranormal experience".
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby NinjaPuppy » 11 Aug 2009, 20:20

Ozz wrote:
The Professor wrote:Many people have had Paranormal Experiences that have solved many crime cases!!!!


This is untrue, and I don't think you are capable of pointing to one concrete example of where a case was solved via someones "paranormal experience".


Psychics don't solve crime cases, the police/detectives solve crime cases. Cases without witnesses or evidence are solved with information or 'tips'. The source of the information doesn't matter. You have all sorts of people who will call in to tip lines or stick their $.02 in for many reasons. The police have to sort through all of this babble matching it up with whatever 'fact' they have. There may not be any specific cases where it's documented that the information from a psychic source nailed the entire circumstance but there are many where pieces of information led the police to explore obscure 'tips' that have proved to be beneficial in solving a case.

I think that too many people are influenced by television when it comes to psychics and police. Television shows are written for entertainment and ratings, not accuracy.
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby ProfWag » 11 Aug 2009, 22:07

Ozz wrote:
The Professor wrote:Many people have had Paranormal Experiences that have solved many crime cases!!!!


This is untrue, and I don't think you are capable of pointing to one concrete example of where a case was solved via someones "paranormal experience".

We went through this in another forum with Dave. He'll reference some dude who gave Hitler information and then try to quote the psychic who pointed a detective to the body of the young girl murdered in Orlando last year.
Both full of holes.
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby ProfWag » 11 Aug 2009, 22:15

Eteponge,
I can appreciate your enthusiasm in this case. I have had similar cases that I enjoy studying. However, this is at least the 3rd time you’ve referenced these two sources for Dorothy, so, I’m going to call you out now. First, who is Scott Jacobson and what was his interest in a case that he felt compelled to write and research about it over a decade after the fact? I could find no reference to him anywhere. Second, if you were a college professor, would you allow your students to use “Unsolved Mysteries” as a reference in their research papers? I should hope not. That show did nothing to investigate paranormal claims, they did everything to try to make a profit. So, please, please, please provide more justifiable information on Dorothy Allison and/or Scott Jacobson. The name of this forum begins with “Scientific Committee,” but your sources are in not scientific. I’m interested in the facts, but they must be from at least half-way credible sources or they will immediately get discounted.
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby NinjaPuppy » 11 Aug 2009, 22:45

Ozz wrote:This is untrue, and I don't think you are capable of pointing to one concrete example of where a case was solved via someones "paranormal experience".


Out of nothing more than curiosity, I made a call this morning to see if I could get my hands on the original personal files of a police detective who had worked with a psychic. I did this because Ozz makes a valid argument for not being able to find anything concrete out there and unless I spend days surfing the net, it would probably turn up nothing that any of us on this forum could prove or have any skeptic on this forum disprove to either sides complete satisfaction.

If anyone here is willing, perhaps we can discuss the pros and/or cons of one specific situation? I don't know what kind of notes are in this file or how full of holes it may be or if the file will ever arrive but it sure does sound like it beats the heck out of what we are doing right now. I'm willing to do some work and see if I can obtain these old papers and we can take it from there.
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby ProfWag » 12 Aug 2009, 09:09

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Ozz wrote:This is untrue, and I don't think you are capable of pointing to one concrete example of where a case was solved via someones "paranormal experience".


Out of nothing more than curiosity, I made a call this morning to see if I could get my hands on the original personal files of a police detective who had worked with a psychic. I did this because Ozz makes a valid argument for not being able to find anything concrete out there and unless I spend days surfing the net, it would probably turn up nothing that any of us on this forum could prove or have any skeptic on this forum disprove to either sides complete satisfaction.

If anyone here is willing, perhaps we can discuss the pros and/or cons of one specific situation? I don't know what kind of notes are in this file or how full of holes it may be or if the file will ever arrive but it sure does sound like it beats the heck out of what we are doing right now. I'm willing to do some work and see if I can obtain these old papers and we can take it from there.

I LOVE me some research NinjaPuppy. Let me know what I can do!
I'm actually planning on writing a complete research paper for peer review on the subject of police detectives. I'm a few weeks away, but planned on starting my research this weekend.
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby Eteponge » 12 Aug 2009, 10:41

ProfWag wrote:I LOVE me some research NinjaPuppy. Let me know what I can do!
I'm actually planning on writing a complete research paper for peer review on the subject of police detectives. I'm a few weeks away, but planned on starting my research this weekend.

I myself have wanted for years to interview the two main police detectives who worked with Dorothy Allison. But if they are still alive they would probably be long retired by now. (The last interview I saw with them talking about Dorothy was in 1988 and they looked to be in their 50s or 60s at the time.)
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby ciscop » 12 Aug 2009, 11:42

uh yeah!
investigations are awesome!!
i would love to know more about this woman
would be awesome if there was any transcripts
right now seems like what we have are only her hits and thats not a scientific way of analyzing anything
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Videos on Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Aug 2009, 21:52

OK, I will make a call to see if I can get the original files or at least exact copies sent to me on a police case where a psychic was used. Perhaps we can all set up some sort of list of what everyone requires to be satisfied with or other items that I have to possibly obtain to see if it will even be a worthy exercise.

It may be a wash out but at least we can all give it a try and see how it goes.

Skeptics - What do y'all feel will be necessary to consider any information we are able to obtain as 'valid'? I am open to any suggestions so fire away.

I can tell you that the detectives who personally solved this case are long dead. I don't know about the rest of the people involved but perhaps we might get lucky and the psychic in question might still be alive and there is still a chance in a million that he is not gone. One widow of one of the detectives is still alive and that's how I found out about it. I have zero idea of what is in this existing file so we will all be starting from scratch, other than I have nothing more than personal memory recall of the actual crime.

I can scan whatever there is to be read or looked at and post it to a separate website created just for this exercise, for review at everyone's leisure. We can discuss as usual and progress accordingly on a topic for this right here.

It may prove very interesting and it may prove to be nothing more than a real life game of "Clue". We won't know unless we give it a try.
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