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My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

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Re: "The Secret" and Law of Attraction - My questions

Postby Craig Browning » 21 Oct 2011, 23:12

Ok, I watched Louise Hay literally go from nothing to being one of the heavy weights of the New Age movement during the 80's and yes, she started many years earlier "affirming" that she'd become a vital "source" in the L.A. spiritual community. It took a bit of time and nearly loosing it all to boot, but she got there and she brought an handful of friends with her, including Marianne Williamson. I say this, I was there!

So on your point about the mind/thought setting the focus and allowing us to "see" those opportunities that allow us to move forward and create our reality, you are kind of correct. Kind of, in that everything comes with a price, this too is a law within mysticism and life itself -- NOTHING IS EVER FREE THERE IS ALWAYS AN EXCHANGE. With Louise and Marianne both I saw them loose a great deal of their down-to-earth sense of connection with people in exchange for business success and propelling that carnal enterprise forward, frequently with curious rehash when it comes to the material shared. . . but that goes with the territory, I can't list the number of New Age writers who've plagiarized Victorian writers like DeLawrence and Blavatsky or any number of great spiritual icons from around the world, claiming it to be "channeled" or insinuating that it's their own view and they got it from no source but their own heart. . . an odd thing given that they have books by the very people they "paraphrase".

Your contention however, like most New Age material, negates the law of Karma let alone Reincarnation and the fact that we are responsible for our past-life transgressions. So given that the most dominate energy from that previous lifetime will be part of who we are in this new life be it positive or negative, how does all this "Self-Creation" fit the bill? There's a huge probability that your personal karma is going to nix those lofty goals so that your own soul path find balance and is able to actually learn the lessons you are supposed to be learning rather than running from them and trying to "fix it" but accumulating more and more negative karma by way of your ego-based self-centerdness.

So many that follow New Age ideologies RUN when faced with such points in fact; on one hand they will talk about Karma and Reincarnation, etc. even Hermetics and yet, when those same principles start regulating and negating self-will and fantasy, they come up with excuses. My favorite being the re-write that all Karma is instant and does not transfer from life to life even thought that's what's been taught for thousands of years the world over. This newer idea however, is more commercially appealing, isn't it? But even on that level, it cannot explain away the fact that karma can and will affect those various affirmations -- there is an "outside" influence that can only be controlled when we deal with it head on and learn the lessons it offers us.

One can become rich & famous by way of focus but as I've said, there is a price. I was offered the world in my younger days but only if I made certain compromises such as being a rent-boy to older, very powerful men that could hand me my career. So long as I was willing to to keep my personal beliefs and points of view "Politically Proper" when in so-called Polite Society. Too, I had to be willing to apply "pressure" in ways that would be to my personal benefit, which is a kind way of saying that one must use creative intimidation and even "muscle" from time to time, keeping an ear to the ground so you could usurp any advantage the competition might be gaining and so on.

I ended up known but not part of the upper crust because I wouldn't sell my soul -- the price of doing business. I've certainly lived an amazing life and even tasted what it would be like to be part of that high profile life but I couldn't and wouldn't pay the asking price. This is what these teachings leave out.

NO, I'm not saying that all people with money or fame are corrupt or evil, only that there is a price. The majority of upper-middle-class bums simply have to work 60-70 hours a week, have no true "family life" and ultimately pay with their health. They must still deal with office politics and the schmooze the client games a.k.a. dirty pool. Not the scale of manipulation and usury we've seen with Microsoft and other such "pseudo-monopolies" but even a generous soul pays for his/her sins in life, so take a long hard look at his price.

Pardon my rant, but I've not only played these games over the years as a patron, I used to make the pitch. I can no longer do so because I know where the gaps and inconsistencies lay as well as what kind of racket it actually is. Sorry, but 35 years in the business and I've become quite jaded. Not because of "failure" but because of the lies.
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Re: "The Secret" and Law of Attraction - My questions

Postby craig weiler » 22 Oct 2011, 02:56

I think that the law of attraction as featured in The Secret works just fine. People all over the world are getting exactly the lives that they believe they can have.

The problem is that people don't understand their true intent. Few people can face their deepest fears and therefore have no access to their true subconscious expectations. You are not going to get the material possessions you dream about or fame or wealth if your subconscious doesn't really want them for some reason.

It's quite simple. You can tell where you're head's at by where your feet are at. We are already living up (or down) to our expectations.

It takes a bit of the old spiritual warrior inside of us to recognize and honor this, no matter how unpleasant.
A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are for.
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Re: "The Secret" and Law of Attraction - My questions

Postby Craig Browning » 22 Oct 2011, 22:06

craig weiler wrote:I think that the law of attraction as featured in The Secret works just fine. People all over the world are getting exactly the lives that they believe they can have.

The problem is that people don't understand their true intent. Few people can face their deepest fears and therefore have no access to their true subconscious expectations. You are not going to get the material possessions you dream about or fame or wealth if your subconscious doesn't really want them for some reason.

It's quite simple. You can tell where you're head's at by where your feet are at. We are already living up (or down) to our expectations.

It takes a bit of the old spiritual warrior inside of us to recognize and honor this, no matter how unpleasant.


I'm a firm supporter of "As a Man Thinketh" but, your simplification here echoes what I was pointing out in the above; it avoids our obligation to the Universe and our own essence when it comes to the Law of Balance -- Karma. Sometimes part of that karma can be from our work as healers (on the psychic/shaman side) and our agreement to take on the negative karma clients carry with them and are ready to start correcting and letting go of; we take on and KEEP part of that energy; it is the exchange -- the price we willingly pay for doing this work. New Age thinkers have stood on their heads in a dozen different ways to negate and side-step this fact, including a long list of ways to ground & cleanse yourself, little of which is offered in context to tradition let alone inclusive to this particular reality -- this is one of many examples to what I meant in the above, about "Half-Truth" being the gospel of today's gurus that encourage "self-creation" a.k.a. the Law of Attraction -- they skip steps.

I mentioned Reincarnation earlier; part of that process is planning out our new life with our guides, teachers, etc. on the spirit plane prior to inception. This is when we come to agreement with the various entities with whom karma is shared be it family members, friends, employers, racial groups, etc. So YES, our carnal state and reality really does come from our consciousness; it is part of what we have planned out and agreed to before stepping into this particular time & space. As I said before IF one claims belief in Karma, Reincarnation (the Laws of Necessity, as they are oft time referred to) they cannot censor the one for another; we both know this is done steadily in our world. It's something that must be kept in mind whenever we look at fix-it systems that are just too good to be true -- just envision what you wish to be, chant about it and poofta! It happens? C'mon, there's far more to it and it is nowhere near an instant gratification system.
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Scepcop » 24 Mar 2012, 02:18

Hi all,
A LOA blogger named Melody Fletcher is taking the time to address my LOA critique article on her blog. She will be addressing it in a four part series. I told her that I'd post it in my forum to thank her for taking the time. Here is part 1 of 4:

http://www.deliberateblog.com/2012/03/2 ... ic-part-1/

It is in response to my LOA critique here:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/LawofAttraction.htm

Hope you all find it interesting.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Gforcewarp9 » 03 Oct 2012, 09:52

Back in the 80's when I was in the punk scene, we hated hippies just because of this kind of crap. Namely, we felt that their attitudes were fake, which "manifests" itself ever so nicely in this smug idea that we are all creating our own reality with our thoughts. Yeah, O.K, please go tell starving children in Sub Saharan Africa to try "visualizing abundance." Or, I know, tell them it's their "karma" and that we choose our parents before we're born! In any case, in my 20's and 30's, I traveled around the country quite a lot, which invariably led me into scenes with a lot of hippies, as the traveling punk and rainbow hippie scene really do intertwine considerably, despite my earlier negative feelings about hippies, becoming friends with people in that scene was unavoidable, and I still have many of those friends to this day. However: after living in places such as Boulder, CO., Tucson, AZ--( where I once watched a couple of Rainbow Hippie chicks holding hands and skip into traffic as nothing could happen to them, because they were like little magical hippie faeries! They almost caused an accident! ARGHH.) Port Townsend, WA, and last but not least Cortes Island, BC-- I can tell you I've had just about enough of this New Age nonsense all ready! The link to the article "New Age Bullies" really says it all.
When my son born, he cried and screamed all day and all night for hours and hours on end. My husband and I had no sleep for many, many months. After 6 months, I was running on about 3 hours of broken sleep a night. I had him in and out of the medical clinic every other week. It was the hardest, and loneliest time of my life. I didn't have a lot of friends at the time on Cortes, and my mother who only lived there part time was gone for the winter. I went to a "mom's and babes" group and told the group what was going on with our sons crying and screaming and our subsequent intense lack of sleep. Not one, but four women got up one at a time and said a version of this: "well, I know that when I'm stressed or in a negative space, it affects my baby..." I went for support, and what I got, was passive aggressive judgement. I literally walked down the hall afterword with my son in the Baby Bjorn on my chest while giving the finger with both hands. Now, gee, I had gone there "expecting" support and empathy, and I got the opposite. so according to hardcore LOA adherents, I need to check in with my subconscious thoughts? Wow I screwed up again!
At a baby group many months down the road I attended because a nurse was coming to talk about safety issues. I remember saying something out loud about how I would be terrified if my son started choking, and another mother (young, hippie, yoga teacher...yada yada) says "just don't visualize it too much." Now this is the same woman, who had a child with no Midwife or any other medical attention on the Island (to far away from a hospital for legal home births with a mid-wife)luckily, everything turned out O.K, but if you asked her if she was scared, she would tell you "she just didn't dwell on it." (Incidentally, another couple on a neighboring island tried this a few months back and the non licensed midwife and had to call the ambulance and the baby didn't breath for over 10 minutes...) On the face of it, sure, don't spend to much time worrying about things that haven't happened--but I don't think that's what she meant. I think she meant, if I don't "visualize" it, because that could "make" it happen! Well crap, if that's the case, I should certainly have brought down a passenger jet with all 300 other passengers on it while I was very intensely "visualizing" the plane plummeting to Earth--which by the way, happens every time I fly. Now, some might say that the 300 people counter-acted my "negative" visualization, however even if that's true, than my thoughts really don't create everything. What horse shite it all is. I am a 3d generation worry wort, passed down to me from my grandfather who was a prodigious worry wort. So far, none of the terrifying things I imagine have come to pass (I'm knocking on wood despite my belief that it's a silly superstition) and most of the smaller things I worry about don't either. And, despite all my worrying, good and wonderful things still manage to come my way. I don't get everything I want, but who does?
While I certainly agree that having a positive attitude is a useful tool for dealing with life, and may certainly have an affect on you life, I believe LOA is just like any other religion-- sold as a comforting elixer to sooth our existential terror that we're not in control. In other words, all so much magical thinking.
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Craig Browning » 03 Oct 2012, 23:35

Gforcewarp9, you seem to be bitter at the world and unwilling to accept any kind of responsibility about your own reality. Like so many, your lack of "faith" is what keeps you from seeing how there is a truth to the metaphysical explanations and yes, it does explain why we have so many starving and impoverished people in the world as well as deformed children or "accidents", etc. Your experiences focusing on the extremes -- those that live in the fantasy world, as I call it, vs. those that are a bit more inclusive when it comes to actual metaphysical principle. "New Age" types love to find loop holes, especially when it comes to Karma; literally rewriting what this law is, does and its area of effect. The Lord Buddha has many stories in his life about times he didn't collect tithes or was harmed or suffered loss and he ALWAYS tied it to past life situations and his earned karma. Today's New Age types want us to believe that Karma only happens in our current lifetime and in the "now" vs. from life to life, as has been taught for millennia. To this end I think we actually agree on the idea of how "fake" these people are not to mention how smug and un-god-like they are when it comes to being a living example. Quite frankly, they're just as annoying as those fanatical Christians out there trying to save everyone's soul.

Your experiences of rejection and "not feeling the love" however, do come from how you have rejected and looked down at the very people you sought help from -- you literally created this problem for yourself. The fact that you've shared it here tells me that you are looking for a way to fix your life and get out of your hole but I'd say, given how much venom you seem to have stored away that you're not ready to deal with what must be done to fix it all. The course isn't directly mystical and filled with meditation, chanting, etc. though aspects of the system that will help you, evolved out of that world. Point blank, you need some serious mental health counseling and possibly more; you need to have someone that can help you look at yourself a bit more honestly than you're used to doing and find where you have created the issues in your life. 12-step Programs would call this an "Inventory" or 4th step but there's more to it than that. That fact is, dealing with your own inner-truths is universal and clinically proven to be the second step towards correcting the direction your life is heading. . . the first step is realizing that you can no longer ignore that 500 lb gorilla that keeps you feeling suppressed and stifled, and the fact that you honestly need help dealing with your own truth. It's time consuming, painful and frequently the sort of thing that baby steps are needed in, but until you do this you can't escape the hellish and "empty" life you've known . . . the life that's obviously made you rather bitter.

Don't judge the Pagan/New Age types too harshly in that a truth does exist within what they teach. Like any teaching you must learn to filter the B.S. in order to find the more legitimate essence of truth laying at its core or, as the case were, finding those "elders" that have walked the path for decades, many of them kicking & screaming along the way (in much the way you are) but who ultimately came to understand the simplicity of it all and the value of living life vs. sitting around chanting, praying and walking through all manner of theatrics thinking it will give you enlightenment. It doesn't work that way! Never has, never will. True enlightenment and personal freedom come through two courses of action; learning to know and no longer fear your own personal truth, and to serve as a care-giver to all that live within this dimension and the Universe itself.

Take a look at the Old Testament prophets and show me one major player that wasn't tormented by their own hypocrisy let alone what they saw and condemned in others. They still held to a sense of belief and a desire to serve that greater purpose even though they were tasked regularly, to face their deepest fears and uncertainty. This is what life is about; enduring such things but likewise growing as the result of them, allowing the hard times to help us find the light, so to speak.

No, all that "hippie stuff" as you call it, isn't valid. It's filled with crass commercialism, hypocrisy and all the other blights you will find in any other path of faith. Don't let what you see in the actions of the many blind you from the greater truth -- the wisdom and act of true being that will be found within the few. You see, no matter the tradition, religion or philosophy the true adherents of that path is rarely observed and followed by more than 10% of the congregation -- look for those that aren't "in it" for self-glorification and you'll find the more honest teachers. Most of my teachers have been rapscallions and hell raisers not those freaks that sit on fluffy pillows with pink cloud dreams and rose tinted glasses.

I really hope that you find a genuine guide that you can trust and relate to. Someone that can help you sit aside your trepidation long enough to try healing your own life and life view. ;)
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Gforcewarp9 » 04 Oct 2012, 01:09

Your experiences of rejection and "not feeling the love" however, do come from how you have rejected and looked down at the very people you sought help from -- you literally created this problem for yourself. The fact that you've shared it here tells me that you are looking for a way to fix your life and get out of your hole but I'd say, given how much venom you seem to have stored away that you're not ready to deal with what must be done to fix it all. The course isn't directly mystical and filled with meditation, chanting, etc. though aspects of the system that will help you, evolved out of that world. Point blank, you need some serious mental health counseling and possibly more; you need to have someone that can help you look at yourself a bit more honestly than you're used to doing and find where you have created the issues in your life. 12-step Programs would call this an "Inventory" or 4th step but there's more to it than that. That fact is, dealing with your own inner-truths is universal and clinically proven to be the second step towards correcting the direction your life is heading. . . the first step is realizing that you can no longer ignore that 500 lb gorilla that keeps you feeling suppressed and stifled, and the fact that you honestly need help dealing with your own truth. It's time consuming, painful and frequently the sort of thing that baby steps are needed in, but until you do this you can't escape the hellish and "empty" life you've known . . . the life that's obviously made you rather bitter.


Wow, are you for real? I used my own personal experiences with people to back that point up and to tell as story because I thought it was relevant to the discussion-- not as a cry for help, as you so presumptuously assume. Unless, you've taken it upon yourself in your great wisdom that I asked fo help subconsciously. However, your right on one count--I was bitter that I went seeking help and empathy and what I got was judgement. I had, I repeat, NO "preconceived" notion upon going to that baby group about how I might or might not be treated--though I did state in my previous post that I had "expected" support, so according to LOA, why didn't I get it? I actually think I went with an open mind and only "looked down upon"--in other words: felt angry at-- the women there, only after the experience of being judged by the the very people one would think would be supportive: other mother's. YOU try having a baby for the first time (which is already monumentally life changing and stressful no matter how easy the baby is) that cries and screams non stop, so that you get no sleep for months and months on end. ( Oh wait, your a MAN.) I wondered at the time, 'how am I supposed to care for this precious little being if can't even function do to lack of sleep?' Not to mention, little support. Yes, quite surprising that I would have found that experience traumatic. Oh, wait, it was my karma-- so my being scared, tired, lonely and overwhelmed where All my fault, and therefore expressing my feelings about it just proves my lack of responsibility for my own problems. Sure. I felt pretty burned by their response at a time of great need. Hmm, well maybe instead of being some resentment filled person with an empty life, could it just means I'm human? You are going to have to tell me how I "created" that situation. I am all ears.

Secondly, what on earth makes you think that I am in a "hole" and my life is "empty" and has "no meaning?" What kind of sanctimonious crap is that? I have a great life: I made the conscious "choice" to leave the formerly mentioned small island where people are insular, not that friendly or inclusive (which, is rather endemic to small islands communities, and it was far just me having this experience there.) and now I live in a great new town where people are mostly down to earth and friendly--and no, I had no preconceived notion as to how that would turn out either. If your LOA theory is correct, then my allegedly crap colored glasses that have me in need of counseling "and possibly more" would have found people here unfriendly and non inclusive as well. Sorry to use logic, not magic. As, the author of the original article stated--location matters a great deal in terms of the populations overall friendliness. Furthermore, I have a great family--great husband, a wonderful son who has just entered Kindergarten, I play music, make clothes, rip up the trails with my mountain bike whenever I can. I volunteer at my kid's school from time to time, and I always lend a hand or an ear those who need it. Just because I call bullshit on LOA and told my story about burned by people's lack of compassion, doesn't make my life "empty" or in a "hole."

"Point blank, I need mental health counseling and possibly more?" Uhhh... Point blank--where do you get off, and how do you come to this conclusion without knowing me? I'm sorry but I think you are suffering from oxygen deprivation up there on your high-horse. You think that because I wrote a sarcastic piece that points out the extremism, hypocrisy, and unconscious lack of compassion some people have who are adherents to this sort of thinking makes me in serious need of counseling? Quite ironically, thanks to your judgement of my life, you have proven my point, so thanks for unwittingly supporting my thesis! --- Please. I really can't stand the way 12 Steppers' are constantly projecting their own problems and issues on to others. TAKE YOUR OWN INVENTORY, and leave me out of it.

And, furthermore--excuse me while I take a deep breath and prepare to finger wag-- before you accuse me of judging others who partake of your view, I don't per se. I see it as any other form of religion, your free to practice it or believe it as long as you don't shove it down my throat, expect me to believe it, or harm other people with it, unintentionally or not--e.i, not having compassion for others and righteously informing them subtly or not so subtly that there pain or situation is there fault (whether or not there may be any truth to it) or putting the life of your almost born child in danger (this is where this philosophy turns into something very related to Christian Science), or nearly causing traffic accidents. I have encountered these attitudes so often in hippie/alternative/New Age circles, that I really don't think my examples are isolated in the least. I could think of many more, but for the sake of efficient editing, I thought I'd use the most telling examples.

However, I'll use one more example from a friend: My friend nd was part once part of a raw-food group/community. In it, were and hand full of people suffering from stage 4 cancer. In a discussion with one of the cancer patients about their cancer, one of the organizers of the group told that person that they "needed to check in with their beliefs." Apparently, this person with cancer was understandably enraged, and asked her something to the effect of , "don't you think if there was any thing in this world that I could do or think to spend one more day with my family, with my kids, I would do what ever it took?" Personally, I would have dumped my plate of dehydrated raw tomato pizza with goji berries and dumped it on her head. That's just the fightin' Irish in me. However, apparently this event really upset a lot of people. This is the kind of self-righteous insensitive crap I speak of that is anything but spiritual--it's cruel.

And, yes I do have an axe to grind, because I don't think this isolated or extreme, and I think it harms others in many instances by blaming victims twice. Whether or not there is Karma, or that we are all subconsciously acting out our our own dramas I think that telling a woman who's son just committed suicide, "everything happens for a reason" as not just insensitive, but CRUEL-- and not much different than saying that it's all in "God's plan." If I come across as bitter or angry, it's simply because I am passionate when I see injustice and hypocrisy-- whether it's a bunch of neo-liberal "economic Darwinist" Christians--ever an oxymoron if there was one, or self righteous self-appointed spiritual self help guru's, I care not!

Well while for some reason I chose to respond with 4 paragrapsh.--must be my desperate desire to get out of my "black hole," or it could be that I have bronchitis (which certainly feels like a black hole) and therefore have a lot of time on my hands-- but once again, I digress. I could have made my point in one sentence by simply stating: Get over yourself.
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Enough paragraphs for everyone?
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Craig Browning » 04 Oct 2012, 21:03

I think you just proved to everyone where you problem is. . .enjoy your angst and misery ;)
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Arouet » 05 Oct 2012, 00:14

Also, please try and use more paragraphs - walls of text are hard to read.
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby NinjaPuppy » 05 Oct 2012, 01:02

Welcome to the forum Gforcewarp9. I'd like to put in my $.02 into this subject so bear with me as I make an attempt to do that.

Gforcewarp9 wrote:Wow, are you for real?

Yes, Craig is 'for real' and he usually shoots straight from the hip.

Gforcewarp9 wrote:I used my own personal experiences with people to back that point up and to tell as story because I thought it was relevant to the discussion--

Yes, your commentary was relevant to this discussion. You closed with your personal thoughts and opinion about LOA (which I completely agree with even if I am into some of what might be considered New Age crap) with this quote:
Gforcewarp9 wrote:While I certainly agree that having a positive attitude is a useful tool for dealing with life, and may certainly have an affect on you life, I believe LOA is just like any other religion-- sold as a comforting elixer to sooth our existential terror that we're not in control. In other words, all so much magical thinking.


Gforcewarp9 wrote:.....not as a cry for help, as you so presumptuously assume. Unless, you've taken it upon yourself in your great wisdom that I asked for help subconsciously. However, your right on one count--I was bitter that I went seeking help and empathy and what I got was judgement. I had, I repeat, NO "preconceived" notion upon going to that baby group about how I might or might not be treated--though I did state in my previous post that I had "expected" support, so according to LOA, why didn't I get it? I actually think I went with an open mind and only "looked down upon"--in other words: felt angry at-- the women there, only after the experience of being judged by the the very people one would think would be supportive: other mother's.

Been there, done that, got the judgement and was totally made to feel as if I had no right to even be there.

Gforcewarp9 wrote:YOU try having a baby for the first time (which is already monumentally life changing and stressful no matter how easy the baby is) that cries and screams non stop, so that you get no sleep for months and months on end.

While I have experience with what I would determine to be an overachiever in the crying and staying awake area, I have also experienced 2 situations as you describe that I can totally understand. One mother handled it with round the clock, high priced nannys and the other wound up in a mental health facility and I wound up with full time care of her screaming infant for 5 months with plenty of help and time off.


Gforcewarp9 wrote:I wondered at the time, 'how am I supposed to care for this precious little being if can't even function do to lack of sleep?' Not to mention, little support. Yes, quite surprising that I would have found that experience traumatic.

Traumatic? That's putting it mildly.

Gforcewarp9 wrote:Oh, wait, it was my karma-- so my being scared, tired, lonely and overwhelmed where All my fault, and therefore expressing my feelings about it just proves my lack of responsibility for my own problems. Sure. So, yes I was bitter about it--and, when I think back back on it, it still feels painful. I felt pretty burned by their response at a time of great need. Hmm, well maybe instead of being some resentment filled person with an empty life, could it just means I'm human? You are going to have to tell me how I "created" that situation. I am all ears.

While I do enjoy thinking that there's karma attached to much of our current life, it doesn't explain everything. The one thing that kept me sane was the saying, "God gives special children to special people". Not that I believe in the acceptable definition of God and I don't think that I'm all that special. I just did what I had to do and what I thought I should do and it turned out fine.

Gforcewarp9 wrote:As, the author of the original article stated--location matters a great deal in terms of the populations overall friendliness. Furthermore, I have a great family--great husband, a wonderful son who has just entered Kindergarten, I play music, make clothes, rip up the trails with my mountain bike whenever I can. I volunteer at my kid's school from time to time, and I always lend a hand or an ear those who need it.

It sounds like you're fine too.

Gforcewarp9 wrote:Just because I call bullshit on LOA and told my story about burned by people's lack of compassion, doesn't make my life "empty" or in a "hole." "Point blank, I need mental health counseling and possibly more?" Uhhh... Point blank--where do you get off, and how do you come to this conclusion without knowing me? I'm sorry but I think you are suffering from oxygen deprivation up there on your high-horse. You think that because I wrote a sarcastic piece that points out the extremism, hypocrisy, and unconscious lack of compassion some people have who are adherents to this sort of thinking makes me in serious need of counseling? Quite ironically, thanks to your judgement of my life, you have proven my point, so thanks for unwittingly supporting my thesis! --- Please. I really can't stand the way 12 Steppers' are constantly projecting their own problems and issues on to others. TAKE YOUR OWN INVENTORY, and leave me out of it.

I love good sarcasm but most times people don't see it as a well written sarcastic piece, they see it as a personal attack. Especially if they feel that their beliefs are what is being attacked. Forum posts don't allow for voice inflection or body language, so it's hard to drive a point home in plain text.

For the record, I must admit that I've never read up on "LOA" or "The Secret". Mainly due to what I have read on other forums by people who have decided that it's GREAT. It came across to me as a last ditch effort to pass off hard work and doing what is needed to get where you wanted to be and I certainly didn't feel that their current lives were anything that I would want to be living.
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Gforcewarp9 » 05 Oct 2012, 01:18

Craig Browning wrote:I think you just proved to everyone where you problem is. . .enjoy your angst and misery ;)


Craig, thanks again for proving MY point: that some adherents of LOA are SELF RIGHTEOUS, SELF-IMPORTANT, POMPOUS KNOW IT ALLS WITH NO SENSE OF HUMOR.
oh thanks all great knowing one, I had no idea my life was so miserable until you came along and pointed it out (sarcasm.) Instead of addressing any of my points, you have chosen to DIAGNOSE me, which tells me that you are a 12 step NEWBIE who still needs to proselytize to the unbelievers. I may be miserable according to you, but I sure have been enjoying this opportunity to write sarcastic comebacks to your unbelievable arrogance.
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Gforcewarp9 » 05 Oct 2012, 01:37

[quote="NinjaPuppy"]Welcome to the forum Gforcewarp9. I'd like to put in my $.02 into this subject so bear with me as I make an attempt to do that.


Thanks NinjaPuppy (love your screen name!) for writing a thoughtful and empathetic response to what I wrote. :) And also, thanks for the compliment about my well written sarcasm! Which by the way, you are right--doesn't always come across well in these types of posts. As for it coming across like a personal attack in my response to Craig, well it darn-tootin' was, because him ignoring everything I wrote and taking it upon himself to tell me I need serious "mental health counseling and possibly more" got this ol' Irish gal up on her hind hooves. He may be for real, but if he doesn't want to come off like a pompous jerk, he should try listening instead of diagnosing for a change. For the record, I hope that this ridiculous exchange between me and Craig the... (o.k I lay off the name calling this time.) dies down, and maybe we can an actual discussion about the subject of LOA, rather then whether or not I have issues in my life. Thanks for being the voice of reason here Ninja Puppy.

[PS: Even though I didn't really come here to discuss the trials and tribulations of child rearing as there are a zillion other forums for that-- I'd like to say thank you for backing me up with your experience in the crying baby dept. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, has any idea what it's like to go through that unless they've been through it, and it sounds like you have. My husband went to work two weeks after our son was born and I was alone with him for 8, sometimes 9 hours a day for months on end and it was the hardest thing I've ever gone through. But, somehow though there were many dark nights (and days that turned to night and vice-versa relentlessly, and what seemed like endlessly,) my son and I survived, and we are still here to tell the tale. He doesn't scream and cry all night any more, and today he is taking his first school picture. I couldn't be a happier and more proud Mama.]
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby NinjaPuppy » 05 Oct 2012, 02:32

Gforcewarp9 wrote:taking it upon himself to tell me I need serious "mental health counseling and possibly more" got this ol' Irish gal up on her hind hooves.

Are you by chance a red head? :lol:

Gforcewarp9 wrote:Thanks for being the voice of reason here Ninja Puppy.

Not the voice of reason, just someone who can relate. As I said, I've seen people touting the spectacular effects of LOA that curled my toes. 'Nuff said.

I have always suspected that I don't have the same way of thinking that most have. My best examples are multiple choice quizzes. They never have what I would deem "MY best response". Not even close....:D

As for the "Law of Attraction" all I can say is: "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it" and "What you want may not be necessarily what you need". Both ways you sometimes do what what you need and that may be a swift kick in the arse to wake you up.

Where I do feel LOA applies is with people that we attract. If we want to attract a better class or type of people, we need to become that type of person. An example of this from your post is that you moved. You moved away from the small town (small island) and small town mentality to a place that had a more diverse culture. I moved from a more diverse culture to a small island. The culture shock took a bit of getting used to for me but I like being shut off and I don't mind being shut out. I guess that I got used to it (too used to it) very early in life. My rule of thumb is, "When all else fails, lower your expectations".

I can understand the concept of LOA and for some it may work. I always try to find the positive in a situation, you know... that silver lining in every dark cloud and all that stuff but LOA doesn't tell you what to do when you reach the point of wanting to choke the life out of that person... Um, I mean cloud when it just won't stop raining on my freakin' parade. I don't think that LOA has a game plan for taking charge when some actual personal intervention is required.

Imagining everyone around you being supportive ain't gonna work. Cutting people who are not supportive out of your life quickly seems to be a much more effective procedure. Keeping only those who at least show some concern for others and yourself works until they can be replaced with those who actually do show support and who are like minded.
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Gforcewarp9 » 05 Oct 2012, 03:29

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Gforcewarp9 wrote:taking it upon himself to tell me I need serious "mental health counseling and possibly more" got this ol' Irish gal up on her hind hooves.

Are you by chance a red head? :lol:

Close! I have strawberry blonde hair that's gotten darker and murkier as I've aged. My brother is still a full blown red head. ;)

Gforcewarp9 wrote:Thanks for being the voice of reason here Ninja Puppy.

Not the voice of reason, just someone who can relate. As I said, I've seen people touting the spectacular effects of LOA that curled my toes. 'Nuff said.


Well, you might not have intended to be the voice of reason, but I FELT more reasonable after reading your post, so there for I attributed that feeling to you.

I have always suspected that I don't have the same way of thinking that most have. My best examples are multiple choice quizzes. They never have what I would deem "MY best response". Not even close....:D


Yeah! Me too. I always wanted to write in an "other--please explain." I'd rather take an essay test than multiple choice. Is that twisted or what?

As for the "Law of Attraction" all I can say is: "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it" and "What you want may not be necessarily what you need". Both ways you sometimes do what what you need and that may be a swift kick in the arse to wake you up.


Yeah, if we are believing in Karma (and I'm not nec.) saying that I do, wouldn't that be contradictory to LOA, which basically tells you can attract whatever you "want" into your life?

Where I do feel LOA applies is with people that we attract. If we want to attract a better class or type of people, we need to become that type of person. An example of this from your post is that you moved. You moved away from the small town (small island) and small town mentality to a place that had a more diverse culture. I moved from a more diverse culture to a small island. The culture shock took a bit of getting used to for me but I like being shut off and I don't mind being shut out. I guess that I got used to it (too used to it) very early in life. My rule of thumb is, "When all else fails, lower your expectations".


I moved to this island of where I speak to be with my husband. Previously, I'd lived in a town where I knew everyone (or so it seemed) had lot's of friends and was involved in the community in different ways. I am a friendly extrovert-- so when I experienced so many people who seemed not even to give me eye contact or any body language that would have suggested that they wanted to get to know me in any way, it was really hard for me. To be happy there, I did have to "lower my expectations," and stop pining for something from people that I just wasn't going to get. Eventually, I did make a close friend.

I can understand the concept of LOA and for some it may work. I always try to find the positive in a situation, you know... that silver lining in every dark cloud and all that stuff but LOA doesn't tell you what to do when you reach the point of wanting to choke the life out of that person... Um, I mean cloud when it just won't stop raining on my freakin' parade. I don't think that LOA has a game plan for taking charge when some actual personal intervention is required.


No, well, some adherents would say other wise for sure, as they seem to have a pat answer for everything. Bottom line, we are all on our own journey here on Earth, and we're all just stumbling around in the dark just trying to find the light switch. The trouble is, some adherents to this type of LOA thinking believe they have found the light switch and would like to tell where to find it. And, when you smack into to a hard surface in the process of life-- rather than ask if you're o.k, and help you with a Bandaid and cold compress, they stand smugly by and tell you that you brought it on yourself. (but now I think I'm getting into more of a criticism that belongs to individuals who might practice LOA, and not of LOA itself. I just can't resist a cheap shot once and while....or more than that... :twisted:) Which, may often be true, but--as we're all on this journey here together, and I believe none of us truly has the answer, why not offer another fellow traveler on this crazy plane of existence a little comfort instead--hard truths can come later, and are swallowed best when the person comes to conclusions by themselves, and not from others.

Imagining everyone around you being supportive ain't gonna work. Cutting people who are not supportive out of your life quickly seems to be a much more effective procedure. Keeping only those who at least show some concern for others and yourself works until they can be replaced with those who actually do show support and who are like minded.


Exactly, some people are rude and negative, some people are just introverted and shy, and many people are friendly and outgoing. People come in all shapes and sizes and personalities. People don't act according to how we would like them to. However, that doesn't mean it can't be deeply disappointing. However, to illustrate your point: being on that small island actually taught me something-- it taught to give my energy out to those who gave me positive energy, and not to worry about the rest. Which, is what I should be reminding myself of right now, in this very instance. :|

Cheers!
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Re: My Critique of "The Secret" and Law of Attraction

Postby Craig Browning » 05 Oct 2012, 21:56

Gforcewarp9 wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:I think you just proved to everyone where you problem is. . .enjoy your angst and misery ;)


Craig, thanks again for proving MY point: that some adherents of LOA are SELF RIGHTEOUS, SELF-IMPORTANT, POMPOUS KNOW IT ALLS WITH NO SENSE OF HUMOR.
oh thanks all great knowing one, I had no idea my life was so miserable until you came along and pointed it out (sarcasm.) Instead of addressing any of my points, you have chosen to DIAGNOSE me, which tells me that you are a 12 step NEWBIE who still needs to proselytize to the unbelievers. I may be miserable according to you, but I sure have been enjoying this opportunity to write sarcastic comebacks to your unbelievable arrogance.



Well, you're assumption about me and 12 steps is waaaaay off. I'll have 31 years as of November 4th; last I checked that wasn't considered to be a "Newbie" by anyone's stretch of imagination.

My "arrogance" is well earned and based on a very long life working through my own crap and helping others do the same. I've done counseling work off and on since the 1980s (when the show biz thing was slow) and I've written more than a few highly praised books on the topic of "Reading People", I'm rarely off by much and most that react as you have, usually send me an apology note sometime down the road, pointing out that I was correct in seeing their fear & phobias alongside their unwillingness to do the foot work. Sadly, this describes most people in society.

I do have a very serious sense of humor, ask around. Most people that know me think I have an odd condition in that I'm almost always laughing about life in general and all the crazy people in it. . . and to clarify, very few of my associates in today's world are part of the New Age scene, I too am rather fed up with the hypocrisy and drama vs. dealing with reality.

When it comes to the issue of Karma, believe as you choose but it is the thing that brings balance to our existence PROVIDED we're willing to see, deal with and accept the lessons being presented. A child born with defects has its own karma but the parents that brought that child into this world agreed to be there for that child because of obligations they have both, to the child as well as themselves. This is the reality to it all whether we want to believe it or not -- karma, when it comes to spiritual perspective, makes more sense than anything else out there (especially that one way ticket to heaven or hell or the atheistic idea that we're just worm food).

Paint me as you will, but I think I've touched a few buttons based on your reactions.
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