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Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE!)

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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby Scepcop » 28 Jun 2010, 04:24

ProfWag wrote:
Scepcop wrote:
Also, if Commander Kolstad could not hit the WTC in a 767 like the hijackers did, then how did the hijackers do it? Explain that one!

I probably should have answered this better rather than my optical illusion statement. It sounds like Commander Kolstad wasn't a very good pilot.
But, I'll tell you what, show me compelling evidence that those planes didn't fly into the Pentagon and I'll give it another lookover. Otherwise, whether Commandere Kolstad could do it or not is not very substantial evidence that the commercial airliners didn't crash into the WTC.


This topic about Ralph Kolstad is being intelligently discussed on the ATS board here;
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread506016/pg1

Here's another one.

Professional Pilots Rob Balsamo and FAA Authorized Flight Examiner/Check Airman Dan Govatos discuss the difficulty of the WTC attacks as well as attempts to duplicate the attack in an Airline Simulator on tnrlive.com.

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby Scepcop » 28 Jun 2010, 04:30

ProfWag wrote:
Scepcop wrote:
So answer my question: How could the hijackers do something that expert pilots could not?

Did you forget about the expert pilot reference I gave you that said it was very feasible? We have two expert pilots, your reference who says he doesn't see how they could have done it and my reference who says they most certainly could have done it. Why do you believe one over another?
I'll reiterate what I said earlier. There are over 200,000 commercial pilots in the US alone. If it was impossible for these guys to have flown those planes into buildings, why aren't they all speaking out? Sure, you've got less than .0003% of these guys who question the official story, but even then, they're not saying it was impossible for the hijackers to have done it.
Remember Winston, these guys were not expert pilots, but they had been trained well enough to have done what they did. I have provided references already that show the 757 did have the capabilities to do the maneuvers it did.
Here is something irrefutable (to borrow your phrase): If you say that military planes flew into the buildings, then you're saying that pilots could do it which contradicts your "expert" pilot's comments. The only way your story holds up that pilots could not have done it is if those were drones that flew into the building. And if you say that, then you're saying that 4 planes full of passengers were diverted somewhere else and these hijackers had to have then been able to land a plane. And if they landed the plane, then you have to provide evidence for what happend to the passengers on the plane. Explain that, Hero.
So, I've answered your question and unless you can provide evidence for what happened to those 4 planes other than they crashed into buildings/field, then your theory doesn't hold a drop of water.


That's a very stupid question. I just answered the same one in the ATS forum. I'll just copy and paste it here.

That's not true. Look at this list of hundreds of pilots who agree with Kolstad:

http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

FYI, most pilots are afraid to talk about this due to fear of losing their job. Most don't have the time to research it too. If they saw a good 9/11 film though, they'd probably question the official story too. Most Americans don't even know about Building 7, cause the mainstream media won't give this any attention.

Just because someone doesn't talk about this doesn't mean they agree with the official story. Most of us are programmed to think that authority is truth and never question it, or they don't know what else to think.

You forget that Hani Hanjour's instructors said he was a TERRIBLE pilot who couldn't fly at all. Remember? Why do you forget that?!

Here's another answer to your dumb question by the way.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread506016/pg1

Does it bother you in the least that of the 'millions' of pilots out there, maybe you don't know what most of them think about the flight capabilites of the 911 aircraft and the capabilities of the supposed hijacker pilots?

Maybe they prefer to keep their opinions to themselves and keep their jobs and not risk their necks. It could potentially be quite risky to take a stand against the US Government and US Military official positions if you are working for them directly or indirectly.

Try as I might, I cannot seem to be able to find any organizations of 'thousands' of pilots supporting 911 aircraft capabilities or pilots supporting 911 terrorist hijacker capabilities and qualifications anywhere, let alone 'millions'. My searches end up only with pilots questioning such capabilities. Such as here

Perhaps you have and could point us in the right direction?

I can find lots of organizations filled with pilots and architects and government officials and military officers and other professionals; but oddly most of them have seemed to have waited until they were retired and beyond reprisals before they took a public stand on 911.

Perhaps you have large databases of pilots and architects and government officials and military officers and other professionals who publicly support the 911 officail storyline?

I question whether there are 'millions' of pilots in the world since the total aircraft in the world was estimated at 312,000 in 2005. Perhaps you have more accurate sources?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby Scepcop » 28 Jun 2010, 04:40

More info that destroys ProfWag's side of the debate:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread506016/pg1

"Further to these points, here is a short list of other considerations we can
all use to guage the impossibility of the official story:


#1. The manufacturer limits these particular commercial airliners to 360 knots.

#2. We have videos of wind tunnel flutter tests showing oscillations and stressing of components on the airframe.

#3. We have an example of a 767 via Egypt Air which breaks apart
at lower dynamic pressure in thinner air.

#4. We have a pilots encyclopedia warning of mach tuch, dutch roll,
and other "out of control" situations, yet we are to believe the aircraft
flies without any issues at these incredible speeds?

#5. We have EXPERIENCED fighter pilots, check-air men, and 757/767
pilots who cannot hit towers in the simulators after several tries...and
can only do so once the speed has been reduced to near LANDING SPEEDS (150-200 knots)

Some say the planes should stay together and be fairly easy to control
hitting 3 out of 3 targets SPOT ON by a bunch of rookie terrorists?

I rest my case. You should all watch the video I posted, and check out
real pilots talking about this impossibility in P4T's latest presentation.

Educate yourselves and understand that hand flying a commercial airliner
at speeds WELL over their design limits is not a "point and shoot" game."
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby Scepcop » 28 Jun 2010, 04:41

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread506016/pg1

"Somewhere out there on the net, there is a study, which was conducted by a reputable university, of the long approach video of the south tower plane, whereby it was clocked at anywhere from 550-575+ MPH, possibly even as high as 590, at that altitude. Russ Wintenburg, another pilot on record, who flew the ACTUAL plane alleged to have hit the south tower, has indicated that he could not have controlled it at that speed and altitude. According to him, if I'm not mistaken by my memory of his testimony (I'm not a pilot) the controls actually stiffen and become unresponsive..

And we know the south tower plane made a couple last minute adjustments on final approach (there's a CNN left side approach video somewhere which shows this) and then, as most of the videos show, the plane makes a very hard left turn at the very last moments leading up to impact and was tilted and losing altitude from that hard turn, with the nose pointing down, in the final second or two to impact, which would indicate a hard left turn - something, according to Wittenburg, which would be utterly IMPOSSIBLE for ANY human pilot to perform at that speed and altitude. "

Image

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“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby Scepcop » 28 Jun 2010, 04:51

ProfWag wrote:Here is something irrefutable (to borrow your phrase): If you say that military planes flew into the buildings, then you're saying that pilots could do it which contradicts your "expert" pilot's comments. The only way your story holds up that pilots could not have done it is if those were drones that flew into the building. And if you say that, then you're saying that 4 planes full of passengers were diverted somewhere else and these hijackers had to have then been able to land a plane. And if they landed the plane, then you have to provide evidence for what happend to the passengers on the plane. Explain that, Hero.
So, I've answered your question and unless you can provide evidence for what happened to those 4 planes other than they crashed into buildings/field, then your theory doesn't hold a drop of water.


It's a possibility. We are talking about military planes that can do things that 767's can't. Special planes that could do those maneuvers.

You are asking for the impossible. How can I produce those missing planes and passengers? lol Get real dude. What kind of power and authority do you think I have exactly? Even if were a senator or governor I wouldn't be able to do that!

If they landed those planes and shot the passengers, why would I of all people have proof of that? DUH! You think they'd secretly execute people and then give me evidence of it? lol. Sheesh.

How do we know they weren't shills?

Some of the hijackers were found to still be alive. So perhaps those planes were unmanned and remote controlled?

These are just possibilities. Why can't you consider them?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby ProfWag » 28 Jun 2010, 19:07

Scepcop wrote:
It's a possibility. We are talking about military planes that can do things that 767's can't. Special planes that could do those maneuvers.


You really don't know what the hell you are talking about, do you? You are relying on comments from others rather than using your own common sense.
And you call MY questions stupid? Laughable, especially since you can't explain them rationally.
Allow me to point out please that earlier, you posted a reference that said the 767 is limited to 360 knots (414 mph).
Scepcop wrote:"Further to these points, here is a short list of other considerations we can
all use to guage the impossibility of the official story:

#1. The manufacturer limits these particular commercial airliners to 360 knots.
"


Actually, the top speed of a 767 is 568 mph. Perhaps you should do your own research rather than rely on other conspiracy theory websites.
You then post a picture of the 767 fying right into the tower. Do you realize the magnitude of conspiracy to pull off something like that? I mean, c'mon dude, get real.
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby ProfWag » 28 Jun 2010, 19:17

Scepcop wrote:
That's not true. Look at this list of hundreds of pilots who agree with Kolstad:

http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

FYI, most pilots are afraid to talk about this due to fear of losing their job. Most don't have the time to research it too. If they saw a good 9/11 film though, they'd probably question the official story too. Most Americans don't even know about Building 7, cause the mainstream media won't give this any attention.

Pilots for 911 Truth is an organization that wants to re-open the investigation of 9/11. The list of members you provided shows those that support a re-investigation. It does not mention how many of them agree with this Kolstad guy. For all you know, none of them do.
You presented faulty logic. Sorry.
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby Scepcop » 28 Jun 2010, 19:40

30 million Russians have seen the "Zero" film. Wow. Too bad 30 million in the US were not shown it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/60998

Here is another good one called "9/11 Mysteries". It has a nice sounding female narrator and goes in depth.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3159418946
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby ProfWag » 28 Jun 2010, 20:42

Scepcop wrote:30 million Russians have seen the "Zero" film. Wow. Too bad 30 million in the US were not shown it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/60998

Here is another good one called "9/11 Mysteries". It has a nice sounding female narrator and goes in depth.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3159418946


It's too bad the Zero film is full of inaccuracies, half-truths, misrepresentations, and propoganda.
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby really? » 28 Jun 2010, 21:43

Scepcop wrote:30 million Russians have seen the "Zero" film. Wow. Too bad 30 million in the US were not shown it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/60998

Here is another good one called "9/11 Mysteries". It has a nice sounding female narrator and goes in depth.


Scepcop you've said just recently you answer all questions put to you. I've got one then. What possesses you in the first place I mean the very kernel from which such ideas spring forth and have appeal to consider 9 / 11 was a conspiracy, before you started to listen to any of the 9/11 conpiracists ? Did the idea occur to you on the day it happened ? You may post your response here.
Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1264
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby ProfWag » 28 Jun 2010, 22:19

really? wrote:
Scepcop wrote:30 million Russians have seen the "Zero" film. Wow. Too bad 30 million in the US were not shown it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/60998

Here is another good one called "9/11 Mysteries". It has a nice sounding female narrator and goes in depth.


Scepcop you've said just recently you answer all questions put to you. I've got one then. What possesses you in the first place I mean the very kernel from which such ideas spring forth and have appeal to consider 9 / 11 was a conspiracy, before you started to listen to any of the 9/11 conpiracists ? Did the idea occur to you on the day it happened ? You may post your response here.
Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1264

Hopefully he won't consider it a stupid question. I mean, if I ask where all the passengers are that were on the planes and get told that's a stupid question, he might just consider that a stupid question as well.
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby ProfWag » 28 Jun 2010, 23:41

Scepcop wrote:FYI, most pilots are afraid to talk about this due to fear of losing their job. Most don't have the time to research it too. If they saw a good 9/11 film though, they'd probably question the official story too. Most Americans don't even know about Building 7, cause the mainstream media won't give this any attention.

Here is where I have the biggest problem with you Winston. "If they saw a good 9/11 film..."
NO!!! FAIL!!!!
If they read and researched they would not have to watch a 9/11 film portraying SOMEONE ELSE's theory. Think for yourself Winston! For the love of God, think for yourself!!!

I'll bet you watched JFK and thought it was accurate without any embelishment from Oliver Stone, didn't you? Not saying you are, but this is a common trait in lazy people who don't want to take the time to read. Instead of watching a move and thinking you are a 9/11 expert, go read Boeing's website on the capabilities of a 757/767. Go read the full stories of witnesses and not just the parts people want you to hear. Contact ALPA.org and ask them the capabilities and/or if they agree. There are 53,000 members of ALPA and there's not one word on there where anyone questions the capabilities of those planes. Why? Because they know those planes could perform as they did.
Your movies fail Winston. 100% fail. They are not worth the bandwith they are shown on. Your absorbing information others want you to believe. I've fallen in this trap before and had promised myself never again, but I've done it again. So, no more comments from me without you showing you looked up a reference yourself. If you can't do that, why should I? Or, is that a "stupid question"...
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby ProfWag » 29 Jun 2010, 03:38

I want to point something out here to provide a hint as to why I think the supporters of 9/11 (okay, Scepcop), do not use critical thinking.
Here is one recent post attempting to convince me a 767 could not hit the WTCs :
Scepcop wrote:Also, if Commander Kolstad could not hit the WTC in a 767 like the hijackers did, then how did the hijackers do it? Explain that one!


Then, approximately 3 posts later, he comes up with this timeless beauty:

Scepcop wrote:So perhaps those planes were unmanned and remote controlled?

Now, I ask. I'm supposed to explain why some pilot says he couldn't hit the WTC and then I'm supposed to accept that it could be done via remote control? Scepcop, which theory do you actually pseudo-accept, can a plane hit the WTC or not???????
And you say I have stupid questions?
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby Scepcop » 29 Jun 2010, 07:02

really? wrote:
Scepcop wrote:30 million Russians have seen the "Zero" film. Wow. Too bad 30 million in the US were not shown it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/60998

Here is another good one called "9/11 Mysteries". It has a nice sounding female narrator and goes in depth.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3159418946


Scepcop you've said just recently you answer all questions put to you. I've got one then. What possesses you in the first place I mean the very kernel from which such ideas spring forth and have appeal to consider 9 / 11 was a conspiracy, before you started to listen to any of the 9/11 conpiracists ? Did the idea occur to you on the day it happened ? You may post your response here.
Why Do Conspiracies Have so Much Appeal?
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1264


I answer them if I see them. I cannot keep up with every question on here. No way dude.

What possesses me? The evidence of course. ALL TRUTHERS will say that. So why do you even ask? Duh!

What, I'm supposed to tell you about some mental problem that makes me believe in conspiracies? LOL God that's dumb. Really. That is a loaded question by the thought police that tries to discredit people under the FALSE assumption that all conspiracy claims are false. Such a question is an insult to the intelligence.

I could ask you the same loaded question: What possesses YOU to deny the mountain of evidence that supports a conspiracy? And what possesses you to believe the official conspiracy theory even without evidence. SO THERE!

I don't have time to read new threads.

On the day of 9/11, no I didn't think about conspiracies yet. I was glued to the TV. But many pilots and NORAD veterans were suspicious from day one, cause they could see many impossibilities and improbabilities based on their expertise.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Zero - An Investigation into 9/11 (Irrefutable, MUST SEE

Postby ProfWag » 29 Jun 2010, 08:06

Scepcop wrote:I could ask you the same loaded question: What possesses YOU to deny the mountain of evidence that supports a conspiracy? And what possesses you to believe the official conspiracy theory even without evidence. SO THERE!

I don't have time to read new threads.


I don't think you're talking to me here, but from the evidence you've provided, there's not even a molehill of evidence, much less a mountain.

And I don't have time to watch movies. Too bad you don't have time to research on your own. Perhaps you'd come to a different conclusion.
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