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Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are real

Share your paranormal and psychic experiences here. Do you have any stories of how you came to realize that there were other dimensions or levels of reality? NO SKEPTICS ALLOWED!

Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby Craig Browning » 10 Jul 2011, 19:42

If all western research points seeing a 'going up in a tunnel' during NDE, majority of Eastern say 'going down under the ground' looking


Actually, this is one in the same thing and literally stems from ancient shamanic rites in which (as I believe I've mentioned earlier) one passes through some form of channel or route in order to find the light. In Eastern & Mediterranean regions the common symbolism has been to go down into the earth or, as myth describes, passing through Hades itself. You'll even find inference of this in the Jesus story though it is not part of the official cannon; the lore in which Christ spends his time from his apparent death on the Cross to his resurrection, in Hades/Hell claiming the souls of those that were left behind between Adam and his present. No doubt this is some form of add-on that came well after the whole drama surrounding his actual life and "ministers" needed to glorify the entity even more, but it is part of a familiar theme that goes at least as far back as Babylon. I should point out that many Native American groups also practice this ideology, of going into "the mother" (earth) in order to find answers (when done ritually).

The "up-side-down" descriptions offered through the modern-day Westerner who has strong Judeo-Christian influence in their lives is strictly a matter of personal perspective or I should say "Assumption" because this world looks "UP" to the heavens and as such inserts the idea of going up through a tunnel vs. down through an opening in the earth. Nonetheless, both are passing through a narrow corridor that leads to "the light"

You mentioned earlier the discovery of persons of all types including strangers. . . this is not uncommon in that we all have extended relations with others that are frequently not realized. I can't tell you how many people thank me for helping them who I've never met yet, through my various writings or when I've done talks they attended, my words and experience touch them. I'm not unique in this way, we all have this "echo" as I call it; that famed ripple in the water that moves outward and touches the consciousness of other sentient beings. In your description some of the people found in this NDE situation are "dead", as in "lifeless" in this altered-world; individuals who in life, are actually soulless. If one were to recognize the faces of the dead and meditate on them, it would be found that they are acquaintances that we intuitively know have turned their back on things spiritual and humane; frequently these are people that are self-destructive or "lost" in a more literal sense of things, but many are likewise cruel and manipulative individuals within our own "reality" and how our soul (intuition) perceives them. On many levels this could be seen as a kind of cosmic warning but more than not, it is a cosmic calling; the higher-self showing us the individuals in our lives that we aren't just capable of helping, but karmically obliged to help when it comes to nudging them back on the "right" track when it comes to general consciousness -- humanitarian focus, genuine ethics & morality as well as the assumption of proper responsibility.

Much of this goes back to the rituals that take on the idea of Death, Burial and Rebirth (resurrection), a very common rite found the world over and throughout known time; a very controlled and deliberate NDE type of observance which closely mirrors some of the "Sensory Deprivation" research & techniques popularized in the 1980s (including Rebirthing, though a difference of focus/purpose exists). As a controlled ritual however, one is better able to focus on the vision. . . what your subconscious observations are and what they are saying by way of the intuition. Our suspension when it comes to this type of rite, stifles the logic-side of our thinking (filtering) process so that we are trying to force the in-put to fit a preconceived niche.

Look up Ideomotor Response (a.k.a. Muscle Reading). . . when learning this technique it is paramount to shut down our logical mind and simply go with what the subtle impulses tell us. When the "performer" tries to second guess this in-put he/she will typically fail. This is what happens when it comes to situations such as the NDE styled rituals and even instances of a "Psychic Flash" -- trying to "translate" the various images we are presented; unless the psychic learns to interpret the metaphor each image is trying to communicate the premonition will fail. This is one reason why such things come off as vague and incomplete vs. the solid sense of statement most skeptics demand. But matters of the spirit and even the mind itself (the soul?) will never fit into the standards and boundaries establish by man and our ego, their purpose & form has and will always remain fluid -- grey rather than Black & White. ;)
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby Js1981 » 10 Jul 2011, 22:07

Fantastic post however just as the sceptic beliving based on what he saw.
He didn't really see what he started beliving in.
More, his argumenst are just as yours highly philosphical.
I don't say that your post doesn't make any sense.
It just the sceptic in the video offered a proof/evidence and then he didn't present it. I wouldn't say that all sceptics are too close minded to see the logic it just there could be 100 philophies making sense.
You explain why NDE' are different which isn't supported by biological activity.
You as well try to explain the lack of pattern while others claim that pattern exist. We can both agree that a proof can't be philosophical, not even for a sake of sceptics but what about people having different philosophy and don't agree with you? It isn't an excersise where everone can be right and everyone can be wrong. The whole proof meant to be at least a pattern existing in all those experiments, since the pattern doesn't exist and is even contradictionary, empirical evidence during touchable experience can't be even connected to the answer. You would need to state that majority supports that thesis for the empirical proof anyway but since there isn't a pattern, philosophies will aso he contradictionary.


Ps
Is there anyone else here on this forum besides you and I?
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby NinjaPuppy » 11 Jul 2011, 03:21

Js1981 wrote:Is there anyone else here on this forum besides you and I?

A few of us are lurking. 8-)
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby Craig Browning » 12 Jul 2011, 18:37

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Js1981 wrote:Is there anyone else here on this forum besides you and I?

A few of us are lurking. 8-)


Yea... there's some really ugly things hiding in the abyss :lol:
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby ProfWag » 12 Jul 2011, 21:03

Craig Browning wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:
Js1981 wrote:Is there anyone else here on this forum besides you and I?

A few of us are lurking. 8-)


Yea... there's some really ugly things hiding in the abyss :lol:

Are you calling Ninja "ugly" Craig? 'Cause, that's not how I envision her...
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby NinjaPuppy » 13 Jul 2011, 20:37

ProfWag wrote:Are you calling Ninja "ugly" Craig? 'Cause, that's not how I envision her...

You tell him! I may be a bitch, but I am the pick of the litter! :lol:
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby ProfWag » 13 Jul 2011, 20:41

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:Are you calling Ninja "ugly" Craig? 'Cause, that's not how I envision her...

You tell him! I may be a bitch, but I am the pick of the litter! :lol:

Motherly, maybe, but "bitch?" No. :-)
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby NinjaPuppy » 13 Jul 2011, 20:45

I will soon be graduating from 'motherly' to 'grandmotherly'.
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby ProfWag » 13 Jul 2011, 20:58

NinjaPuppy wrote:I will soon be graduating from 'motherly' to 'grandmotherly'.

Heeeyyyyyy, congratulations!
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby NinjaPuppy » 14 Jul 2011, 01:15

ProfWag wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:I will soon be graduating from 'motherly' to 'grandmotherly'.

Heeeyyyyyy, congratulations!

Thank you!
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby Craig Browning » 14 Jul 2011, 04:00

NinjaPuppy wrote:I will soon be graduating from 'motherly' to 'grandmotherly'.


Trust me, the grandparent part is the most fun. . . not that I was one of those grandpa types that spoilt the kidlings and wouldn't let anyone else play with them when they were around. . . or become their best buds. . . no, I'd never do such a thing :roll:

Oh! No, I wasn't referring to anyone in particular just pointing out that some very strange and sometimes frightening things peek out for the ethers around here :lol:
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby NinjaPuppy » 14 Jul 2011, 17:37

Craig Browning wrote:Oh! No, I wasn't referring to anyone in particular just pointing out that some very strange and sometimes frightening things peek out for the ethers around here :lol:

I knew that Craig. Let's face it, there are a few regulars around here who can be frightening. :lol:
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Re: Open Minded Atheist admits Near Death Experiences are re

Postby Craig Browning » 14 Jul 2011, 20:49

{Back to JS1981. . .}

. . . just as the sceptic beliving based on what he saw. He didn't really see what he started beliving in.

How can you say this? How can you justify the alluded to idea that your perspective and theory is more valid and closer to the “truth” of what happened, than the person witnessing/experiencing any given encounter, paranormal or otherwise?

This is the bigger piece of the debate that creates problems in that the more extreme skeptic (a.k.a. Cynic) is basing everything they say on supposition – the Allusion (or should we say “Assumption”) that their studies, formulas, theories, etc. are “correct” or maybe “more accurate” than what any group or individual experiences.

Have you ever wondered why the skeptical community (particularly those of the Randi Cult) pick and choose the things they focus on?

There’s a rather extensive list of situations they refuse to investigate, attempt to explain, etc. including one that I’ve been tabling for way more than a decade. The only retorts that has ever come back on the subject is that I was either on drugs or wasn’t aware of the work these people did prior to a particular gathering. Yet, I’ve not known of a single Illusion designer that’s yet been able to replicate this particular encounter on stage, let alone in an open field on a breezing San Francisco evening.

While this particular encounter is one of the more “bizarre” and dramatic experiences I’ve had in association with things Pagan/Occult, there have been far more other situations including information revealed in Readings that go way beyond any traditional explanation. Such things are the reason why I can’t, if I am to be honest and true to myself, completely deny the fact that there are things out there that go way beyond our ability to control, manipulate and explain by way of current scientific means & understanding.


More, his argumenst are just as yours highly philosphical.

I don't say that your post doesn't make any sense.
It just the sceptic in the video offered a proof/evidence and then he didn't present it. I wouldn't say that all sceptics are too close minded to see the logic it just there could be 100 philophies making sense.

You explain why NDE' are different which isn't supported by biological activity.

You as well try to explain the lack of pattern while others claim that pattern exist. We can both agree that a proof can't be philosophical, not even for a sake of sceptics but what about people having different philosophy and don't agree with you? It isn't an excersise where everone can be right and everyone can be wrong. The whole proof meant to be at least a pattern existing in all those experiments, since the pattern doesn't exist and is even contradictionary, empirical evidence during touchable experience can't be even connected to the answer. You would need to state that majority supports that thesis for the empirical proof anyway but since there isn't a pattern, philosophies will aso he contradictionary.


I have to admit that this confuses me a bit, starting with the line about how we agree on a “Lack of Pattern” which, up to this point, it seemed that this was one of the things we most disagreed on; my experience and studies showing that patterns/similarities do exist.

The Biological Proof point also confuses me a bit in that we know the physical body loses a very minute amount of weight (a few grams) following death and too, an odd sort of “perspiration” can be found at two key points on the body for a few short minutes following death; at the very top of the head (sometimes consuming the whole frontal area of the brain casing – the mystics theory being that the Pineal Gland and other small bits in this area are likewise affects at death in a similar manner, but particularly pronounced in those known for a “higher sense” of spiritual/mystical/psychic presence) The other primary area would be in and around the Solar-Plexus; it is a manifestation that many a nurse (more than doctors; mainly due to the fact that nurses must tend to the body post-pronouncement and the MD has left the room) are aware of. The irony, as I believe I’ve stated earlier here, is that this same type of phenomena is found in NDE and OBE scenarios and compounding such things, is the fact that these are the two key regions of the physical body that are associated with both, Psychic ability and the “seat of the soul” (the heart & brain are believed – in much of pagan lore at least – to serve as the living Altar areas or “Holy of Holies” within the living temple (the body))

I really can’t understand your closing lines in the least but I will repeat what I’ve been saying all along; proofs of commonality do exist and can be seen when one understand the lingo; points of view, historic/anthropologic, and occult perspectives that have to be part of the research if it is to be anything remotely fair and complete. More so, these perspectives MUST be viewed as a whole and not from the mode of selective application as so much testing on and within the arena of mysticism, tends to be (from both sides of the famed fence) – sorry, but bias is the one factor that will be found in any and all such research, I’ve yet to see this not prove the case; like-minded folks will sustain the “proof” that supports their preferred outcome via the mood of “Peer Review”. There are so many “human’ factors that sway such studies, which is why we see things like one time planets getting new designations or known “poisons” being approved by the FDA for general consumption 30/40 years after being denied the first time. . . and so the list goes on.

“Science” of our present era (the past 50 years) can seemingly prove whatever you want proved, once you have a pile of numbers, “tests” and credentials tied to your claim. . . hell, you can have state laws passed that ban the teachings of mainstream science, supporting folkloric concepts about creation; especially given that the accepted scientific view has never known any kind of “legal” validation such as religion has relished in for millennia.
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