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Science and Technology vs. Religion

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Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby ProfWag » 11 Feb 2010, 21:50

This is from another thread:

ProfWag wrote:
Kevin Kane wrote: In the long run, science and technology has caused more damage to life on earth than religion.

Is this your opinion or a fact? If a fact, please post your reference(s). Thanks.

Kevin Kane wrote: So the scientists say. But it's off topic and worthy of a seperate thread.


Sooooo, let's discuss. Please post any reference you may have that shows science and technology has caused more damage to life on earth than religion.
(Please note, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm asking for your evidence.)
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby Kevin Kane » 12 Feb 2010, 00:24

Life on earth includes plants and animals. Religion rarely endangers such life, but science / technology often does.

The amount of science indicating increased species declines and extinctions is huge. Amphibians are amongst the hardest hit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_in ... opulations
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/endang ... nction.htm
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/endang ... n-info.htm

The causes are multiple and overlapping. Most are due to human activity, changes and pollutants in the environment. Most are science and technology based or assisted. The natural sources may also be influenced by human activity.

http://www.epa.gov/oppfead1/endanger/litstatus/effects/

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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby ProfWag » 12 Feb 2010, 00:50

Kevin Kane wrote:Life on earth includes plants and animals. Religion rarely endangers such life, but science / technology often does.

The amount of science indicating increased species declines and extinctions is huge. Amphibians are amongst the hardest hit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_in ... opulations
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/endang ... nction.htm
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/endang ... n-info.htm

The causes are multiple and overlapping. Most are due to human activity, changes and pollutants in the environment. Most are science and technology based or assisted. The natural sources may also be influenced by human activity.

http://www.epa.gov/oppfead1/endanger/litstatus/effects/

Image

Most excellent post Kevin! You make some very valid points and references. I wonder if much of, if not most of, the endangerment to the plants and animals you listed isn't due so much to science and technology, but rather human greed and our need to expand and build cities/towns where nature once roamed.
For example, the earth's population is growing at an extremely fast rate. Granted it may take hundreds if not thousands of years, but sooner or later there will be more people than the earth can sustain by food. In this case, it's going to need science and technology to come up with ways to make food that can grow in smaller and smaller locations yet continue to sustain life.
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby Kevin Kane » 12 Feb 2010, 01:38

ProfWag wrote:Most excellent post Kevin! You make some very valid points and references. I wonder if much of, if not most of, the endangerment to the plants and animals you listed isn't due so much to science and technology, but rather human greed and our need to expand and build cities/towns where nature once roamed.
For example, the earth's population is growing at an extremely fast rate. Granted it may take hundreds if not thousands of years, but sooner or later there will be more people than the earth can sustain by food. In this case, it's going to need science and technology to come up with ways to make food that can grow in smaller and smaller locations yet continue to sustain life.


Without the profit incentive to do something, it won't get done. Science and Technology are interlinked with the bottom line.

It's not just human expansion, but for instance; artificial lighting attracts insects, amphibeans eat insects, and so it attracts them too. The fungus that has attacked many frogs was apparently spread from African frogs, transported globally for medical research (pregnancy tests).

Religion is one of the reasons why human population sizes are large, for instance, forbidding homosexuality or abortion furthers reproduction. But science and technology have given humans protection against natural causes of death, and improved the exploitation of nature. No easy answers for the problems that future generations will be facing.
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Feb 2010, 01:40

In the immortal words of Joni Mitchell-
"Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you got 'till it's gone. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."


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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Feb 2010, 01:58

ProfWag wrote:Sooooo, let's discuss. Please post any reference you may have that shows science and technology has caused more damage to life on earth than religion.


Neither has caused more damage. What causes the damage is greed and double standards.

Science & Technology and Religion are merely vehicles. Albeit that S&T can create some pretty dangerous left overs in the process. Religion, not so much but religion sure has taken advantage of the left overs that S&T have created by using double standards.

Ex: The Christian commandment says, "Thou shall not kill" yet the bloodies wars fought have been Holy Wars. Why is it becomes ok to kill when religion is the reason and not ok the rest of the time?
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby ProfWag » 12 Feb 2010, 02:53

"I have a solution to the world's overpopulation problem. Death penalty for a parking violation." -- Steve Martin
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby ciscop » 12 Feb 2010, 03:46

NinjaPuppy wrote:In the immortal words of Joni Mitchell-
"Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you got 'till it's gone. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."





isnt this music for teen girls with suicide tendencies?
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby ProfWag » 12 Feb 2010, 03:54

ciscop wrote:

isnt this music for teen girls with suicide tendencies?

Awe c'mon now, that was when music was great! My wife tells me how much meaning are in Eminem's stuff, but I don't think she listened to the late 60s/early '70s stuff as much as she should have...
Many of those people were a generation ahead of their time. IMHO anyway.
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Feb 2010, 07:12

Man, Ciscop... you MUST be young. At least 'young' by my standards.

Joni Mitchell - Big Yellow Taxi
Bob Dylan - "Blowin' in the Wind"
Abbie Hoffman - "Steal This Book"
Woodstock - Peace, Love and Rock & Roll
"Never trust anyone over 30!"

Ahhhh, the memories... It was almost a way of life at that time. Then all the hippies and Dead Heads went into corporate America and it poofed.
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby Kevin Kane » 12 Feb 2010, 12:33

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:Sooooo, let's discuss. Please post any reference you may have that shows science and technology has caused more damage to life on earth than religion.


Neither has caused more damage. What causes the damage is greed and double standards.

Science & Technology and Religion are merely vehicles. Albeit that S&T can create some pretty dangerous left overs in the process. Religion, not so much but religion sure has taken advantage of the left overs that S&T have created by using double standards.

Ex: The Christian commandment says, "Thou shall not kill" yet the bloodies wars fought have been Holy Wars. Why is it becomes ok to kill when religion is the reason and not ok the rest of the time?


Holy wars have been bloody, but all wars have been assisted by S & T, greatly improving the kill power of armies. Many of the greatest scientific advances are due to military necessity. It should be pointed out that modern wars are less motivated by religion than resources and economy (oil/trade) or political ideologies (democracy/communism) .. and these wars have been terribly bloody.
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby Kevin Kane » 12 Feb 2010, 13:14

We need more real geniuses

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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby ProfWag » 12 Feb 2010, 21:49

Kevin Kane wrote:
Holy wars have been bloody, but all wars have been assisted by S & T, greatly improving the kill power of armies. Many of the greatest scientific advances are due to military necessity. It should be pointed out that modern wars are less motivated by religion than resources and economy (oil/trade) or political ideologies (democracy/communism) .. and these wars have been terribly bloody.

Valid point on the advancement for military necessity. Our current wars, however, are based on religion I feel. Korea, Vietnam, and the like maybe not. But Iraq/Afghan definitely.
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby Twain Shakespeare » 30 Jul 2010, 15:15

Kevin, humans have caused more damage to Gaia "with" technology than "with" religion, but more damge to each other "because of religion" than because of science.

Greed seems to be the case of the first, (misapplied?) evolutionary dynamics for the second

Prof Wag. Yes, Korea and Vietnam were religious. Leaving aside that communism is, as Reich pointed out, a religion, a materialistic chiliastic heresy of Judeo-Xianity, on this side, the way I read the record, a Cabal of John Birch Society Fundies and their allies instituted the Cold War (Korea and Vietnam being just hot spots in the War) in the belief that Stalin was the Anti-Christ. They effectively took over the government in a right wing coup when Mark Felts as Deep Throat destroyed Nixon for going soft on Communism by going to China, but that is beyond the scope of this discussion, and don't get me started on Ronald=6 Wilson+6 Raygun=6.
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Re: Science and Technology vs. Religion

Postby Ellie » 17 Aug 2010, 02:06

Science and religion are two languages to describe the same thing. Gallileo said that. And he was right. But both science and religion are unfortunately corrupted to serve a desire for money, power and influence. That's why they both kill people. Probably in equal parts. But we will never know (or be able to say with a complete dataset), so it's pointless to artificially separate them here.

It is interesting however, that conflict and 'ebb and flow' is natural to our evolved brains, but that science and technology have allowed humans to utilise this natural characteristic to severely warped and distorted ends. Ends that are not suited to us. This represents a new evolutionary problem which has been observed since the beginning of what we call 'civilisation' (the adoption of a sedentary lifestyle). The original tenets (uncorrupted) of most religions attempt to deal with this evolutionary problem.
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